Converting spells.... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Converting spells.... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Cyrus_Dracmoore
11-16-03, 09:46 AM ok, my question is whether I (being a wizard) could convert a druid spell to a sorc/wiz spell, so that I could use it. Mabey having a druid their to desipher the script for me, and help me along, or mabey even being the student of a druid for a while (but taking no actual druid levels), anyone have any ideas?
Shadowfax7
11-16-03, 10:39 AM No, not without either a houserule or campaign storyline created by the DM (maybe a Wish ??)

My 2cp.
Cyrus_Dracmoore
11-16-03, 10:48 AM lol, nice finish.... yea, I talked to my DM about it and he said that if I studied under a Druid for a while (most likely a couple of years) I could scry in water like a druid, but he said I had to ask the boards to see what think about the spells idea.... so opinions, ideas?
tarkin
11-16-03, 10:54 AM I suggest you research a similar spell, changing the features that you do not like but keeping the ones you do like.

You certainly should not just let a wizard learn a druid spell that they can not already use.

It screws with the both the role-playing aspect and the balance aspects.
Cyrus_Dracmoore
11-16-03, 11:25 AM But doesnt a wizard have nearly unlimited spells? Considering, all he has to do is write them down (with a notable expense) into his spellbook? So, just like copying down a spell from another wizards spell book, can I learn to convert a druid spell into a wizard spell? mabey it would cost more than a normal spell would to copy down. Thanks for the insight so far.
Shadowfax7
11-16-03, 12:23 PM Druids don't have spellbooks, so you cannot copy it from there.

And again, w/o a houserule, you cannot even learn a Druid spell from a scroll, but Tarkin's idea is good.

My 2cp.
VolkorTheRed
11-16-03, 01:58 PM Maybe you could develop own wizardly spells based on druidic spells; but using the druidic spells themselves, as arcane spells? I certainly wouldn't allow it!
As Tarkin said: it screws with the (universal) balance :)

The diversity of wizardly spells is already big as it is. Why need druidic ones? :)
TheAmethystDragon
11-16-03, 05:37 PM As a DM, I would consider it on the following:

As a wizard, you would actually research the new spell(s). There are rules for this in the core rulebooks. It gets expensive.

Second, the new spell(s) would have to fit under the general effects of an arcane type of spell. No healing spells, no relying on a deity or the "power of nature".

Since you haven't actually said what spells you want to convert, it's kind of hard to make any other suggestions.

http://www.amethyst-dragon.com/Aenea/TopFrame/aenea2.gif
http://www.amethyst-dragon.com/Aenea/TopFrame/aenea.gif (http://www.amethyst-dragon.com/Aenea)

Original Spells: 184 and counting

www.amethyst-dragon.com/Aenea (http://www.amethyst-dragon.com/Aenea)
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Darth K'Trava
11-16-03, 08:16 PM You could get the idea from the druid spell and then research it as a wizard to make it your very own version and modifying it to suit your style of spellcasting.
HeWhoRoams
11-17-03, 04:27 PM Correct up above

wizards can in fact research their own spells... Remember Mordenkainen??

So just have your wizard research this spell under arcane restrictions

easy enough
CrimsonRyoko
11-17-03, 06:53 PM Wouldnt studying under a druid for a few years be taking atleast 1 druidic level. . . . . Levels are an abstract term like HP.
Levels are time spent concentrating on something and learning its ways, if you go off with a druid for a year i would say you attain a level of Druid whether you want it or not if you wanted any powers from it.
Oh and none of this: im a lvl 15 wizard, who spent time with a Druid, so i automatically know spells as a lvl 15 druid would :)
Theyre different disciplines.

But im all for the researching your own spells!
Rabe
11-19-03, 05:02 AM In my game you have to become a druid, if you want to use druid spells.
If I would allow cross research, I bet my wizards start on Heal first before going to True Resurrection and Miracle...

Rabe
VolkorTheRed
11-19-03, 09:58 AM Originally posted by Rabe
In my game you have to become a druid, if you want to use druid spells.
If I would allow cross research, I bet my wizards start on Heal first before going to True Resurrection and Miracle...

Rabe

Except that arcane versions of healing-spells are simply not possible -or at least: its highly recomended not to allow them :D
NorthSaber
11-19-03, 03:43 PM I would probably allow research of wizard spells based on druidic magic, but with limitations. The process should be similar to researching a new spell, although since A) the wizard has a working example to study and B) if the wizard has druidic experience, time, difficulty and expenses could/should be reduced.

The final spell should be one or two levels higher than the druid version, to preserve the balance. For example, a wizard's version of Faerie Fire should be a second level spell.

Some spells should not be possible to convert, mainly those involving healing of any type. Also, some inherently "druidic" spells should be reserved for druids only, to prevent wizards becoming the know-it-alls of magic and to preserve the uniqueness of druids.

If the wizard is REALLY into druid spells, I would recommend going for the Mystic Theurge prestige class to allow a true merging of the two magic types.

The essential problem with this discussion is that wizards are already quite powerful, and are the only class that can easily research or scribe new spells. If the wizards get half of the druids' spell list, what can the druids do to get more spells themselves? Plus, the wizard spell list is already the most extensive (even better than that of sorcerers - some wiz/sorc spells are limited to wizards only), they really don't *need* more selection.
VolkorTheRed
11-19-03, 03:49 PM On a sidenote:
It is possible as a divine spellcaster (druidic or otherwise) to research new spells also.
Ingame it comes down to the fact that you have to spend resources etc. too, and then pray to your god to receive the spell from him/her, next time you want to memorize it.
I remember reading about the "outgame rules" for it, but i don't remember anymore where exactly .... :embarrass
Wizard
11-19-03, 06:16 PM The wizard can certainly not simply learn druid spells from a druid.

Why? Because though a wizard has great experience in channeling arcane power and directing raw magic, he has no experience with the power of nature. The two are completely different from each other.

You'll find that that applies to each class---they all (except for druid-ranger and cleric-paladin) have their own, specific way to cast their spells. Wizards who take one level of sorcerer can't cast 5th-level spells as a sorc, because he hasn't developed his inner talent for magic. Sorcs who take one level of wizard can't do the equivalent, because they don't have the knowledge or discipline to prepare high-level spells from writing. Bards sing, druids commune with nature, and clerics pray to their gods.

The point is, learning a spell does not allow you to cast it. Learning a spell and learning how to cast it(that specific spell) allows you to cast it.
ikkonoishi
11-19-03, 06:37 PM What spell are you wanting to learn?

If its scrying you already know it so...

If you just want to alter the spell to work the way it does with a druid using a pool of water instead of a 1000gp mirror then I would say take the normal research cost for a spell of that level and divide by 5.

If you don't already know it then if your DM will let you learn it from a druid, pay full spellbook writing price, and use the pool of water.

I don't really see a problem with it if your DM doesn't the focus is mostly a flavor issue.
Edymnion
11-19-03, 07:08 PM Lol, one of the advantages of being a Sorcerer. No researching spells, just make up an arcane version and learn it normally the next time you could normally learn a spell of that level.

No fuss, no muss, no having to haul around a laboratory with you :D
ikkonoishi
11-19-03, 07:52 PM Originally posted by Edymnion
Lol, one of the advantages of being a Sorcerer. No researching spells, just make up an arcane version and learn it normally the next time you could normally learn a spell of that level.

No fuss, no muss, no having to haul around a laboratory with you :D
Umm... to learn a non standard spell a sorcerer has to research it just like a wizard.

He just has to wait until he gets another free spell slot to learn it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Cyrus_Dracmoore 11-16-03, 09:46 AM	ok, my question is whether I (being a wizard) could convert a druid spell to a sorc/wiz spell, so that I could use it. Mabey having a druid their to desipher the script for me, and help me along, or mabey even being the student of a druid for a while (but taking no actual druid levels), anyone have any ideas?
Shadowfax7 11-16-03, 10:39 AM	No, not without either a houserule or campaign storyline created by the DM (maybe a Wish ??) My 2cp.
Cyrus_Dracmoore 11-16-03, 10:48 AM	lol, nice finish.... yea, I talked to my DM about it and he said that if I studied under a Druid for a while (most likely a couple of years) I could scry in water like a druid, but he said I had to ask the boards to see what think about the spells idea.... so opinions, ideas?
tarkin 11-16-03, 10:54 AM	I suggest you research a similar spell, changing the features that you do not like but keeping the ones you do like. You certainly should not just let a wizard learn a druid spell that they can not already use. It screws with the both the role-playing aspect and the balance aspects.
Cyrus_Dracmoore 11-16-03, 11:25 AM	But doesnt a wizard have nearly unlimited spells? Considering, all he has to do is write them down (with a notable expense) into his spellbook? So, just like copying down a spell from another wizards spell book, can I learn to convert a druid spell into a wizard spell? mabey it would cost more than a normal spell would to copy down. Thanks for the insight so far.
Shadowfax7 11-16-03, 12:23 PM	Druids don't have spellbooks, so you cannot copy it from there. And again, w/o a houserule, you cannot even learn a Druid spell from a scroll, but Tarkin's idea is good. My 2cp.
VolkorTheRed 11-16-03, 01:58 PM	Maybe you could develop own wizardly spells based on druidic spells; but using the druidic spells themselves, as arcane spells? I certainly wouldn't allow it! As Tarkin said: it screws with the (universal) balance :) The diversity of wizardly spells is already big as it is. Why need druidic ones? :)
TheAmethystDragon 11-16-03, 05:37 PM	As a DM, I would consider it on the following: As a wizard, you would actually research the new spell(s). There are rules for this in the core rulebooks. It gets expensive. Second, the new spell(s) would have to fit under the general effects of an arcane type of spell. No healing spells, no relying on a deity or the "power of nature". Since you haven't actually said what spells you want to convert, it's kind of hard to make any other suggestions. http://www.amethyst-dragon.com/Aenea/TopFrame/aenea2.gif http://www.amethyst-dragon.com/Aenea/TopFrame/aenea.gif (http://www.amethyst-dragon.com/Aenea) Original Spells: 184 and counting www.amethyst-dragon.com/Aenea (http://www.amethyst-dragon.com/Aenea) http://www.amethyst-dragon.com/Aenea/TopFrame/aenea2.gif
Darth K'Trava 11-16-03, 08:16 PM	You could get the idea from the druid spell and then research it as a wizard to make it your very own version and modifying it to suit your style of spellcasting.
HeWhoRoams 11-17-03, 04:27 PM	Correct up above wizards can in fact research their own spells... Remember Mordenkainen?? So just have your wizard research this spell under arcane restrictions easy enough
CrimsonRyoko 11-17-03, 06:53 PM	Wouldnt studying under a druid for a few years be taking atleast 1 druidic level. . . . . Levels are an abstract term like HP. Levels are time spent concentrating on something and learning its ways, if you go off with a druid for a year i would say you attain a level of Druid whether you want it or not if you wanted any powers from it. Oh and none of this: im a lvl 15 wizard, who spent time with a Druid, so i automatically know spells as a lvl 15 druid would :) Theyre different disciplines. But im all for the researching your own spells!
Rabe 11-19-03, 05:02 AM	In my game you have to become a druid, if you want to use druid spells. If I would allow cross research, I bet my wizards start on Heal first before going to True Resurrection and Miracle... Rabe
VolkorTheRed 11-19-03, 09:58 AM	Originally posted by Rabe In my game you have to become a druid, if you want to use druid spells. If I would allow cross research, I bet my wizards start on Heal first before going to True Resurrection and Miracle... Rabe Except that arcane versions of healing-spells are simply not possible -or at least: its highly recomended not to allow them :D
NorthSaber 11-19-03, 03:43 PM	I would probably allow research of wizard spells based on druidic magic, but with limitations. The process should be similar to researching a new spell, although since A) the wizard has a working example to study and B) if the wizard has druidic experience, time, difficulty and expenses could/should be reduced. The final spell should be one or two levels higher than the druid version, to preserve the balance. For example, a wizard's version of Faerie Fire should be a second level spell. Some spells should not be possible to convert, mainly those involving healing of any type. Also, some inherently "druidic" spells should be reserved for druids only, to prevent wizards becoming the know-it-alls of magic and to preserve the uniqueness of druids. If the wizard is REALLY into druid spells, I would recommend going for the Mystic Theurge prestige class to allow a true merging of the two magic types. The essential problem with this discussion is that wizards are already quite powerful, and are the only class that can easily research or scribe new spells. If the wizards get half of the druids' spell list, what can the druids do to get more spells themselves? Plus, the wizard spell list is already the most extensive (even better than that of sorcerers - some wiz/sorc spells are limited to wizards only), they really don't need more selection.
VolkorTheRed 11-19-03, 03:49 PM	On a sidenote: It is possible as a divine spellcaster (druidic or otherwise) to research new spells also. Ingame it comes down to the fact that you have to spend resources etc. too, and then pray to your god to receive the spell from him/her, next time you want to memorize it. I remember reading about the "outgame rules" for it, but i don't remember anymore where exactly .... :embarrass
Wizard 11-19-03, 06:16 PM	The wizard can certainly not simply learn druid spells from a druid. Why? Because though a wizard has great experience in channeling arcane power and directing raw magic, he has no experience with the power of nature. The two are completely different from each other. You'll find that that applies to each class---they all (except for druid-ranger and cleric-paladin) have their own, specific way to cast their spells. Wizards who take one level of sorcerer can't cast 5th-level spells as a sorc, because he hasn't developed his inner talent for magic. Sorcs who take one level of wizard can't do the equivalent, because they don't have the knowledge or discipline to prepare high-level spells from writing. Bards sing, druids commune with nature, and clerics pray to their gods. The point is, learning a spell does not allow you to cast it. Learning a spell and learning how to cast it(that specific spell) allows you to cast it.
ikkonoishi 11-19-03, 06:37 PM	What spell are you wanting to learn? If its scrying you already know it so... If you just want to alter the spell to work the way it does with a druid using a pool of water instead of a 1000gp mirror then I would say take the normal research cost for a spell of that level and divide by 5. If you don't already know it then if your DM will let you learn it from a druid, pay full spellbook writing price, and use the pool of water. I don't really see a problem with it if your DM doesn't the focus is mostly a flavor issue.
Edymnion 11-19-03, 07:08 PM	Lol, one of the advantages of being a Sorcerer. No researching spells, just make up an arcane version and learn it normally the next time you could normally learn a spell of that level. No fuss, no muss, no having to haul around a laboratory with you :D
ikkonoishi 11-19-03, 07:52 PM	Originally posted by Edymnion Lol, one of the advantages of being a Sorcerer. No researching spells, just make up an arcane version and learn it normally the next time you could normally learn a spell of that level. No fuss, no muss, no having to haul around a laboratory with you :D Umm... to learn a non standard spell a sorcerer has to research it just like a wizard. He just has to wait until he gets another free spell slot to learn it.