Post/Author/DateTime	Post
R.M.G.C.L.F. 08-01-05, 04:29 PM	All of these spells are lacking in some usual requisite or limitation, either having a shorter casting time or lacking a usual component. With that in mind I attempted to make them deal less actual damage than a standard spell. With a degree of flexability in mind, I ask for your help in balancing these spells at a good level that respects their unusual boosts but doesn't penalize them to the point of worthlessness. Frostwhip Evocation(cold) Level: Wiz/Sorc2 Components: V,S Casting Time: quick move equivalent action (takes a move equivalent action and counts as expendature of quickened action) Range: Close (25ft+5ft/level) Duration: Instantaneous Effect: 15ft line Saving Throw: Reflex Negates Spell Resistance: Yes Upon Casting this spell, a crackling bolt of white-tipped energy streaks through the area dealing 1d4 cold damage plus one per two levels (maximum+10). Thunderbreath Evocation(sonic) Level: Wiz/Sorc2, Brd1 Components: V Casting Time: Standard Action Range: See effect Duration: Instantaneous Effect: 15ft cone, eminating from caster Saving Throw: Reflex Negates Spell Resistance: Yes A roaring soundwave thunders from the caster's mouth, dealing 1d6 sonic damage to those within the area. Goldenflame Evocation(Fire) Level: Wiz/Sorc2 Components: S,M Casting Time: Standard Action Range: Close(25ft+5ft/level) Duration: Instantaneous Target: One creature Saving Throw: Will Negates Spell Resistance: Yes Upon casting, the target is ensheated in silent yellow, orange, and gold colored fire, taking 1d6 fire damage plus one per two levels. (maximum+10) Material Component: a tindertwig and a gold coin, together worth 2gp. Ancient Lightning Evocation(Electricity) Level: Wiz/Sorc5, Drd6 Components: None Casting Time: Full-round Action Range: Close (25ft+5ft/level) Target: One Creature or Object Duration: 1 round per three caster levels Saving Throw: Will Negates Spell Resistance: Yes Upon casting this spell, the target is struck by forks of blue lighting from above and tendrils of red lightning from beneath. This deals 1d6 electric damage to them, plus 1 per two caster levels (maximum+10), and causes them to be stunned for the duration. Elementals and outsiders get a +2 bonus to their saving throws. If the creature saves successfully, a yellow lightning appears to reach from them, entangling the other two and then absorbing them into a white flash of negation. Meltwave Evocation(Acid) Level:Wiz/Sorc3 Components: S Casting Time: Move equivalent Action Range: Close (25ft plus 5ft/level) Target: Once creature Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: Ref Negates Spell Resistance: Yes Upon casting this spell, a small wave of green caustic fluid about one foot in height splashes at the target, dealing 1d6 damage plus one per level. Snapdown Evocation(Force) Level: Wiz/Sorc3 Components: V,S Casting Time: quickened Action Range: Close (25ft plus 5ft/level) Target: One creature Duration: Instananeous Saving Throw: Reflex Negates Spell Resistance: yes With a word of power and a snap of your fingers, the target creature is knocked prone. Thoughts? Suggestions? Comments?
tarkin 08-01-05, 05:00 PM	Frost Whip. This is an MEA spell, basically almost as good as a Quickened Spell. +3 levels instead of +4. So that would be a 4th level spell. And put a max in their of +15. Keep in mind that people routinely would use these MEA stuff after they do something like say cast Harm. Thunderbreath Fine, but add in Bard 1 Goldenflame Non-verbal. Nice 2nd level spell, once you put in a +10 max for the damage. or make it 1d4 +1/2 levels, +5 max and you got a 1st level spell. Ancient Lightning NO COMPONENTS, but a Full Round action. Upgrade by at least a level, and put a max out at 10th level. Meltwave Non-verbal PLUS an MEA. Fifth level spell, once you put in a max of +15 for the bonus +1 damage. Snapdown Weak power, but still a quickened action that makes people prone. Require a Touch Attack on top of the Save, make it a 3rd level spell. ------- Silent Spell is a +1 feat, so is Still Spell. QUicken is a +4 feat. Those are not poorly done feats. They should be your starting point, not something you are trying to "beat". Yes, you can build in those stuff into a spell, and even put something a little bit extra. But you have to pay the price.
R.M.G.C.L.F. 08-01-05, 05:32 PM	Thank you for the advice. I wasn't looking at them as things to try and beat, I was trying to work out a hybridization of traits, watered-down spells in exchange for a built-in metamagic. Apparently I grossly over-estimated the degree of watering. Are you sure they won't be underpowered at the level, since their weaker in damage than the average first level spell?
R.M.G.C.L.F. 08-01-05, 05:38 PM	Looking over your comments, you seem to think most of the spells did 1dX+1 per level damage. Did you see the "plus one per two levels" on frostwhip, golden flame, and ancient lightning. I'm not suggesting a lower level, it just seems odd compared with the damage caps you suggested.
R.M.G.C.L.F. 08-02-05, 08:47 PM	Taking your advice in mind, I've tried to make the following spells balanced. Glare of Destruction Evocation[Force] Level: Sor/Wiz3 Components: None Casting Time: full action (standard action and move action combined, not full-round action) Range: Close(25ft+5ft/2 levels) Target: One Creature or object Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: Yes A ray of violet energy shoots from your eyes towards the target with a ranged touch attack. This deals 1d8 damage per two levels, to a maximum of 5d8. Silent Dominion Enchantment (Compulsion) Level: Brd5, Sor/Wiz7 Components: S Casting Time: Full-round action Range: CLose (25ft+5ft/two levels) Target: One humanoid or monstrous humanoid of large size or smaller. Duration: 1 day/level Saving Throw: Will Negates Spell Resistance: Yes This functions as dominate person, except that it can target humanoids and monstrous humanoids. The subject gets a +2 bonus to their initial saving throw if they nuetral or unfriendly towards you, and a +5 bonus if they are hostile. Hand of Will Transmutation Level: Brd1, Wiz/Sorc2 Components: None Casting Time: full action Range: Close (25ft+5ft/2 levels) Target: Nonmagical, unattended object weighing up to one pound per level, to a maximum of ten pounds Duration: Concentration or 1 round per level, whichever is shorter Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: No You focus your attention at an object adn can lift it and move it at will from a distance. As a move-equivalent action, you can move the object up to 20ft in any direction, though the spell ends if the distance between you and the object ever exceeds the spell's range. Silent Petition Level: Clr2,Drd2,Pal1 Components None Casting Time: Full Action Range: touch Target: Creature touched Duration: 1 minute or until discharged Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: Yes By making a mental request to your divine force for assistance, the subject is imbued with a +1 competence bonus on a single attack roll, saving throw, or skill check. Grip of Nature Conjuration Level: Drd3, Rgr3 Components: None Casting Time: Full Action Range: Medium (100ft+10ft/level) Area: 30ft radius spread Duration: 1 minute/level Saving Throw: Reflex (See text) Upon casting this spell, vines and creepers spring up from the ground and wrap around creatures in the area or who enter the area, entangling them. A reflex save prevents entanglement, but the creature must still make a new save each round as the vines attempt to entangle anew the creatures that escaped them. After the spells end, the plants cease their animation and quickly begin to shrivel and die, and can be brushed or shaken off as a free action.
Vanigo 08-02-05, 09:59 PM	Thunderbreath Evocation(sonic) Level: Wiz/Sorc2, Brd1 Components: V Casting Time: Standard Action Range: See effect Duration: Instantaneous Effect: 15ft cone, eminating from caster Saving Throw: Reflex Negates Spell Resistance: Yes A roaring soundwave thunders from the caster's mouth, dealing 1d6 sonic damage to those within the area. Hopelessly weak for a wiz/sorc. Compare it to the classic magic missile: much less damage, pathetic range, an AOE that's only useful if you're already screwed, sonic damage instead of force, and the marginal advantage of no somatic component. Without the no somatic component, this would make a really weak first level spell. If you want it to be second level, make it at least as good at doing damage as burning hands.
Archtyrant Terevoth 08-03-05, 12:09 AM	Having spells as a MEA is a bad idea. It's another potential spell per round stacked on top of quickened and standard action spellcasting. Which means it's a big balance problem. A MEA spell is actually more powerful than a quickened spell because it can be used at the same time as a quickened spell. The only acceptable MEA type spells should be movement spells or things that perform actions similar to what MEAs themselves would do. Alternately you could rewrite them as MEA + swift action, to prevent people from quickeneing and casting an MEA spell. If you don't, the MEA casting time alone is a broken mechanic.
R.M.G.C.L.F. 08-03-05, 12:27 AM	Archtyrant: Fixed :) Thanks for the tip. Vanigo: Well, I didn't want it at second level but somebody else told me I should move it there. >< Do you think increasing the base damage to 1d8 and giving it +1 per caster level to the damage would bring it up to par?
Bloodtide_the_Red 08-03-05, 02:13 AM	In 3X casting a spell as a 'free' action is a Swift Action, for the casting times. Your attack spells look hopelessly weak. At 10th level Frostwhip would do 1d6+5 points of damage. Why bother. and Thunderbreath..... Ancient Lightning no components? And the damage is 1d6+10? plus stun for a couple rounds? and it can effect objects? so you can destroy peices of paper with the spell? Meltwave is a bit odd. A single target acid spell for 1d6 damage a level..no cap? But Ref neg? And it's not even conjuration to get the SR-No cheat. Slapdown is ok..just make that a Swift Action. Glare of Destruction..why a 'full round' action. The spell does not do all that much destruction, it would be fine as a standard action. And again no components and it 'effects' objects? Silent Dom looks ok. Hand of will..another full round action, to move a couple pounds? It's just improved mage hand right... Silent Petition a +1 to a check? This looks very weak..even with it lasting forever. And no components...you'd think Divine Focus. This should be school Evocation too. Grip of Nature is just improved entangle. The effect does not match Conjuration though..they would stay there forever or just fade away. Wilt and die makes this a bit odd. And again no components, you'd think 'a hand full of seeds' and a full round action? BT
R.M.G.C.L.F. 08-03-05, 09:14 AM	In 3X casting a spell as a 'free' action is a Swift Action, for the casting times. Your attack spells look hopelessly weak. At 10th level Frostwhip would do 1d6+5 points of damage. Why bother. and Thunderbreath..... Well that's what I thought, but sicne certain people told me they were underpowered and I needed to up them to the levels they are at now, I really have no idea what to think. <_< Ancient Lightning no components? And the damage is 1d6+10? plus stun for a couple rounds? and it can effect objects? so you can destroy peices of paper with the spell? Of course, because you'd never use a spell to do something like burn down walls or break iron locks. You can read what it does. Do you have an balance advice or did you just come here to insult me? Meltwave is a bit odd. A single target acid spell for 1d6 damage a level..no cap? But Ref neg? And it's not even conjuration to get the SR-No cheat. Yes it's odd. I'm an odd person. I leap around my house when nobody's around and make howler monkey noises. I forgot to add the damage cap. A reflex save negates it by hastily dodging/getting out of the way. And I do hope you'll forgive me for not implementing an overused cheap trick. Slapdown is ok..just make that a Swift Action. [quote]Glare of Destruction..why a 'full round' action. The spell does not do all that much destruction, it would be fine as a standard action. And again no components and it 'effects' objects? You just don't get it do you? OF COURSE THERE'S NO COMPONENTS, THAT'S THE WHOLE DAMN POINT OF IT! And again, yes, you can aim your eye-beam at a door or stubborn treasure chest as well as a monster. I thought I'd be on the safe side and penalize it a little for using force. Silent Dom looks ok. Hand of will..another full round action, to move a couple pounds? It's just improved mage hand right... With no components. Which is, as mentioned, the point of the damn thread. Silent Petition a +1 to a check? This looks very weak..even with it lasting forever. And no components...you'd think Divine Focus. This should be school Evocation too. You just don't get it do you? IT'S THE WHOLE DAMN POINT! IT'S A GUIDANCE SPELL WITH SILENT SPELL AND STILL SPELL BUILT IN! Grip of Nature is just improved entangle. The effect does not match Conjuration though..they would stay there forever or just fade away. Wilt and die makes this a bit odd. And again no components, you'd think 'a hand full of seeds' and a full round action? Yes it's odd. I pee in jars and keep them around my room for a couple of days. Yes no components, gosh, I think you just read through my entire thread WITHOUT EVEN SEEING THE DAMN PURPOSE OF THE THING ONCE!
Vanigo 08-03-05, 08:44 PM	Of course, because you'd never use a spell to do something like burn down walls or break iron locks.I think his point is that between hardness and the fact that most objects take half damage from electricity, you're not going to be able to break anything much tougher than a piece of paper. Stone and iron, in particular, are completely immune to this. I think you're severely overestimating how useful it is to have a spell with no verbal and/or somatic components. It's occasionally great, but usually useless. Still Spell and Silent Spell are therefore nice for a sorcerer, and okay for a wizard who can say "Okay, I think I'm going to be in a lot of silenced areas, so I'll prepare lots and lots of silent spells", but when you try to use it as a major benefit of a particular spell, it just doesn't really work. It's only going to come into play maybe one time in thirty, and that's just not worth gimping your damage output, especially when you also increase the casting time. It's not worth having a pile of spells like this in your spellbook so you can mem them rather than take Silent Spell, either; it's not worth the money you spend scribing them.
R.M.G.C.L.F. 12-15-05, 11:09 PM	Sooooooo, anybody else have some mixed messages and utterly unhelpful commentary? :ahem:
R.M.G.C.L.F. 12-18-05, 12:08 PM	Seriously though, it would help to have some sound balance advice amongst these.