Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lord_Psathus 04-20-07, 11:32 PM	A rogue/assassin player in the campaign I am running has currently been flinging touch spells from wands when a target is denied dexterity and he has found it extremely effective. (They are 10th level, he has been using a wand of scorching ray). Now while this hasn't been a problem, I stumbled onto a small spell called chill touch which, from the SRD Reads: Chill Touch Necromancy Level: Sor/Wiz 1 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Touch Targets: Creature or creatures touched (up to one/level) Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: Fortitude partial or Will negates; see text Spell Resistance: Yes A touch from your hand, which glows with blue energy, disrupts the life force of living creatures. Each touch channels negative energy that deals 1d6 points of damage. The touched creature also takes 1 point of Strength damage unless it makes a successful Fortitude saving throw. You can use this melee touch attack up to one time per level. Now--as I have read, sneak attack activates with every successful attack against dexterity-denied targets. (Touch attacks as well) which means it would add to every chill touch, allowing many, many deadly touches for a sneak attacker who was using chill touch from a wand or scroll. The rogue/asn is now delving into the world of wands and scrolls, hoping to throw a little variety to his play-style and he seems to be on to the little trick I was on to and I'm fearful that a single wand would be devestating against many foes considering for a 5th assassin that's 5 touch/sneak attacks (if they all hit, that will be a bit...lethal) So, I was just wondering if anyone has found any flaw in the chill touch theory I am presenting? Otherwise, I think he may become the most destructive character in the group by FAR. Thanks, Lord Psathus
Archangel_Tyrael 04-20-07, 11:54 PM	He only gets to buy what you allow him to. Chill touch is a level 1 spell which means a lot of the wands are going to be for 1d6 damage--any higher than that, it's on your head what happens. :P
Empiro 04-20-07, 11:55 PM	That is a valid use of the spell. However, the caster level is the level of the wand, which usually is 1 unless you pay more. His assassin level never comes into play, since Chill Touch is not on the assassin spell list. There isn't anything to prevent him using it against many opponents, though don't forget that lots of them have magic resistance. Sneak attack immune enemies, of course, are also immune. I've personally found that flasks of acid/alchemist fire/holy water are more effective.
Dellan 04-21-07, 12:01 AM	Remember activating a wand is a standard action. so he will still be able to use it once per turn and if he is against a fighter with feats like robliars gambit he can still be in a world of hurt. so yes effective but still not overpowering. also remember the save DC is based on the level of the wands creator not the person activatiing it so the strength damage should be saved against even if cast by a 10 level wizard the DC will be 15 or 16 on average
Arturius1 04-21-07, 12:02 AM	Yes, there is a flaw. Sneak attack damage comes from being flat-footed, not touch attacks. Touch attacks are great for hitting targets since touch is usually lower than flat-footed, but it doesn't grant SA damage.
divide_by_zero 04-22-07, 01:20 AM	Yes, if he is flanking or is under the effect of Greater Invisibility or the like, and he has a wand of Chill Touch of higher than first level, then he could touch more than once per round. If he was Hiding or using regular invisibility to deny the opponent their Dex, then only the first attack in the round would apply Sneak Attack damage (since after that he wouldn't be Hiding or Invisible.) The spell says up to your level (caster level) but t me it makes sense to limit that to the number of attacks the character can make using a full attack.
Merestil Haye 04-22-07, 04:47 AM	Yes, there is a flaw. Sneak attack damage comes from being flat-footed, not touch attacks. Touch attacks are great for hitting targets since touch is usually lower than flat-footed, but it doesn't grant SA damage.This is incorrect for two reasons. Firstly, "being flat-footed" is not a condition that renders a creature vulnerable to sneak attacks. One of the things being flat-footed means is that you are denied your Dexterity bonus to AC (or if you don't have one that you would be denied it) and that is one of the conditions that make you vulnerable to Sneak Attack - unless you have a class ability, racial quality or item that renders you immune to sneak attack. Secondly, sneak attack damage can apply to any attack that deals damage. A Chill Touch is an attack that deals damage, therefore Sneak Attack applies against creatures that are vulnerable to it. To the OP : As has been pointed out, a device that casts Chill Touch (or any spell) uses the caster level of the device, not the wielder. (Staffs excepted, if the wielder's CL is better). So if he goes and shells out 7,500gp for a wand of Chill Touch at 10th level, each charge will enable up to 10 attacks. Additionally, the fact that the spell is not on the Assassin class list will be no barrier to him. He can take one level of a class with the spell on its list, or he can make a DC20 Use Magic Device check each time he wants to use the wand.