Corruption spells and undead? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Corruption spells and undead? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
kazgoroth
09-30-06, 05:01 PM In Book of vile Darkness and in Heroes of horror we are introduced to the the corruption spells.
-taken from Book of vile Darkness
A corruption spell has no material components. Instead, it draws power away from the mental or physical well-being of the caster in the form of ability damage or ability drain....
... so far, no problems.

but then we take the Undead Type
-Not subjekt to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drain or energy drain. Immune to damage to its physical ability scores...
so if I was a lich, would it then mean that I could cast fx. Forbidden Speech, which have a corruption cost of 1D6 points of strength damage, without any side effects, since an undead is immune to strength damage?
OR
Would the lich simply loose its ability to cast Corruption spells, since itsunable to pay the corruption cost?
Thiez
09-30-06, 05:26 PM If you can't pay the components of a spell, you can't cast it. I think the same rule could apply to the corruption cost.

Or, if you think undead spellcasters are so cool, you can just let them cast corrupt spells without the drawback, telling your players that they are so corrupt that casting corrupt spells does not significantly affect them.
kazgoroth
09-30-06, 05:56 PM I see the rules for the need of using the components.
But don't it seems a litle strange, that a very powerfull (and evil) mage, know for his spells of pure evil. And when he ascends to an immortal lich, he loses his ability to cast his mighties spells?
Thiez
09-30-06, 06:14 PM That's when the second option kicks in: Evil immortal liches are way too cool to have a need for actually paying the corruption costs.
Shatteredtower
10-01-06, 04:41 AM Or the third: if they can't pay it one way, you make them pay it another. Where it says Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution, take it out of Charisma. It's not by the book, but if you feel the costs are an essential balancing factor that not even your BBEGs should be able to sidestep, it will suffice.
User5127
10-01-06, 07:39 AM Actually I think there was a solution to this problem, i had asked some one about it once and we came to the agreement that undead are IMMUNE, but! monsters can always lower their immunity/resistance to effects so that they may voluntarily be effected by said effect!

so! as a LICH you would have to temporarily drop your immunity to ability drain so that you can pay the req amount for the corrupted spell. because its a voluntary act on your behalf and not something being done to you. therefore you still can take the ability drain/damage, because you chose to take it. thus game balance is maintained.

I don't know if thats a rule some where in a book, but its pretty much what we agreed on that makes sense. and so i've adopted it as a house rule for players who try things like that. (mind you when i first found out about corruption I thought the EXACT same thing! since i have a fondness for liches. lol)
Thiez
10-01-06, 07:46 AM You're saying I could Suggest the big T into lowering it's resistance to dying? :P

I tend to see most of monster's immunities as a physical qualities, and they're as hard to switch them off as it is for you to change your skin colour at will. Off course, SR is an exception.
User5127
10-01-06, 08:03 AM well no where does it say you can't turn off your ex ability.

but what would make sense in terms of game play is to ignore any moster immunities since they are paying the cost to cast the spell. you could even rule that the magic involved in the casting of the spell would bypass any immunities on the part of the caster. thus allowing undead to corrupt their spells.

and it makes sense that a lich or vampire caster would corrupt their magic to hurt the living more. i mean he was alive at some point in time and i'm sure he would of been able to cast those spells while alive.

so more in terms of the spirit of the game (finding a way of balancing things and giving pcs/npcs what they want/need) then house rule it to say they are still affected instead of saying "well now that you are an undead, you are screwed when it comes to casting those spells. BURN!"

i dunno, it just seems to make sense that way.
Thiez
10-01-06, 08:14 AM Nowhere does it say you can't take actions if you're dead 8-)

Anyway, if I were a zombie, I'd turn off my Single Actions Only (Ex). That'd be a smart thing to do.

And Dryads, they'd better turn off their Tree Dependency (Even though it's Su)

Wolverine's don't have to Rage (Ex) if they don't want too, right?
User5127
10-01-06, 09:22 AM you know i'm talking about the spirit of the game. and not about being ridiculous right?
but w/e,

yes they can ALL do that! -.-

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
kazgoroth 09-30-06, 05:01 PM	In Book of vile Darkness and in Heroes of horror we are introduced to the the corruption spells. -taken from Book of vile Darkness A corruption spell has no material components. Instead, it draws power away from the mental or physical well-being of the caster in the form of ability damage or ability drain.... ... so far, no problems. but then we take the Undead Type -Not subjekt to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drain or energy drain. Immune to damage to its physical ability scores... so if I was a lich, would it then mean that I could cast fx. Forbidden Speech, which have a corruption cost of 1D6 points of strength damage, without any side effects, since an undead is immune to strength damage? OR Would the lich simply loose its ability to cast Corruption spells, since itsunable to pay the corruption cost?
Thiez 09-30-06, 05:26 PM	If you can't pay the components of a spell, you can't cast it. I think the same rule could apply to the corruption cost. Or, if you think undead spellcasters are so cool, you can just let them cast corrupt spells without the drawback, telling your players that they are so corrupt that casting corrupt spells does not significantly affect them.
kazgoroth 09-30-06, 05:56 PM	I see the rules for the need of using the components. But don't it seems a litle strange, that a very powerfull (and evil) mage, know for his spells of pure evil. And when he ascends to an immortal lich, he loses his ability to cast his mighties spells?
Thiez 09-30-06, 06:14 PM	That's when the second option kicks in: Evil immortal liches are way too cool to have a need for actually paying the corruption costs.
Shatteredtower 10-01-06, 04:41 AM	Or the third: if they can't pay it one way, you make them pay it another. Where it says Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution, take it out of Charisma. It's not by the book, but if you feel the costs are an essential balancing factor that not even your BBEGs should be able to sidestep, it will suffice.
User5127 10-01-06, 07:39 AM	Actually I think there was a solution to this problem, i had asked some one about it once and we came to the agreement that undead are IMMUNE, but! monsters can always lower their immunity/resistance to effects so that they may voluntarily be effected by said effect! so! as a LICH you would have to temporarily drop your immunity to ability drain so that you can pay the req amount for the corrupted spell. because its a voluntary act on your behalf and not something being done to you. therefore you still can take the ability drain/damage, because you chose to take it. thus game balance is maintained. I don't know if thats a rule some where in a book, but its pretty much what we agreed on that makes sense. and so i've adopted it as a house rule for players who try things like that. (mind you when i first found out about corruption I thought the EXACT same thing! since i have a fondness for liches. lol)
Thiez 10-01-06, 07:46 AM	You're saying I could Suggest the big T into lowering it's resistance to dying? :P I tend to see most of monster's immunities as a physical qualities, and they're as hard to switch them off as it is for you to change your skin colour at will. Off course, SR is an exception.
User5127 10-01-06, 08:03 AM	well no where does it say you can't turn off your ex ability. but what would make sense in terms of game play is to ignore any moster immunities since they are paying the cost to cast the spell. you could even rule that the magic involved in the casting of the spell would bypass any immunities on the part of the caster. thus allowing undead to corrupt their spells. and it makes sense that a lich or vampire caster would corrupt their magic to hurt the living more. i mean he was alive at some point in time and i'm sure he would of been able to cast those spells while alive. so more in terms of the spirit of the game (finding a way of balancing things and giving pcs/npcs what they want/need) then house rule it to say they are still affected instead of saying "well now that you are an undead, you are screwed when it comes to casting those spells. BURN!" i dunno, it just seems to make sense that way.
Thiez 10-01-06, 08:14 AM	Nowhere does it say you can't take actions if you're dead 8-) Anyway, if I were a zombie, I'd turn off my Single Actions Only (Ex). That'd be a smart thing to do. And Dryads, they'd better turn off their Tree Dependency (Even though it's Su) Wolverine's don't have to Rage (Ex) if they don't want too, right?
User5127 10-01-06, 09:22 AM	you know i'm talking about the spirit of the game. and not about being ridiculous right? but w/e, yes they can ALL do that! -.-