Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Etiquette_Gnome 08-24-04, 05:00 AM	I have one little rant made by a friend who doesn't go to these boards, but I think his point should be made. Undead are probably the only thing that's reasonably priced as far as magic stuff goes. One active wizard would destroy the local economy. The fact that ANYONE would make even a clay golem (or stone, if you want cost effectiveness) is absurd, much less have a castle full of them. They'd be about a zillion xp in the hole and destitute for something that can just be smashed up by some dork with an adamantine sword. Probably do more good to use the gold to fund an army; or buy a kingdom; or deck yourself out with so much magic stuff nobody would ever touch you; or live in absurd hedonistic opulence for ten lifetimes. If they're going to make them cost so much they probably shouldn't bother having rules to make them, because no sane PC is ever going to make any of them unless you just give it to them. And in that case they'd be so over their value that they'd never see a single gp again if you were really factoring it in at all. Making undead is evil they say, but what the **** kind of stuff did you do to get enough money to make a single golem? They don't really give you much of a choice.
Kyuketsukiouji 08-24-04, 12:28 PM	That *is* the choice. Quick, cheap and evil, or long, expensive and not.
Kiri Sittori 08-24-04, 12:49 PM	Stone Golems make great cohorts, as long as yer willing to reserve yer fifth level slots for Heal Stone Golem (Transmute Mud to Rock.) Caution point #1: Stone to Flesh can be devastating. Caution point #2: So can the Mace of Smiting or an Arrow of Construct Slaying, or the Arrow of Arcane Archer Cheese. Then again, an intelligent Golem owner can find ways around that problem. Iron Golems can work too, as long as Rust Monsters never become an issue. Do keep in mind that the DM may very well be vindictive enough to use Rust Monsters if you create an Iron Golem. Otherwise, pyros will have loads of fun with their pet Walking Armour. Claydolls and Frankies are rather poor choices, as they're... how do you say... UNSTABLE. (And building a Frankie entails harvesting corpses... and casting Animate Dead. For all that trouble, and their occasional tendency to Go Nuts, yer better off casting Animate Dead on the six bodies...)
Etiquette_Gnome 08-31-04, 05:18 AM	What my friend and I are attempting to bring to light is that we disagree on the pricing scheme. Frankly, both of us feel that golems are not good enough to warrant their price, while undead provide a relatively appropriate cost:power ratio. What we hope for is to both convince whomever reads this that this is so, and to figure out an appropriate reponse to make golems more cost-effective. Also, what would be the price reduction of a golem that didn't have its Magic Immunity ability. Ideas I've heard/thought of included halving their market value (thus halving creation costs), and to start working on the equivalent of Ressurect for constructs so as to replace fallen golems more effectively.
The WarOverlord 08-31-04, 08:59 AM	I have one little rant made by a friend who doesn't go to these boards, but I think his point should be made. Undead are probably the only thing that's reasonably priced as far as magic stuff goes. One active wizard would destroy the local economy. The fact that ANYONE would make even a clay golem (or stone, if you want cost effectiveness) is absurd, much less have a castle full of them. They'd be about a zillion xp in the hole and destitute for something that can just be smashed up by some dork with an adamantine sword. Probably do more good to use the gold to fund an army; or buy a kingdom; or deck yourself out with so much magic stuff nobody would ever touch you; or live in absurd hedonistic opulence for ten lifetimes. If they're going to make them cost so much they probably shouldn't bother having rules to make them, because no sane PC is ever going to make any of them unless you just give it to them. And in that case they'd be so over their value that they'd never see a single gp again if you were really factoring it in at all. Making undead is evil they say, but what the **** kind of stuff did you do to get enough money to make a single golem? They don't really give you much of a choice. Everything in the Manuals are "guidelines" not "Set in stone Rules" For instance wouldn't a Mage/Sage that specializes in making Golems find a cheaper and more efficient way to make Golems than a "run of the mill" Mage that has to learn the process and doesn't normally research or invest in the equipment and materials needed? E.G. I created a "Artifist" Mage/Merchant Subclass that could create magical wand and the more common magical items a adventurer might buy from His Store faster and cheaper the higher in level the "Artifist" got. (By 20th Level any normal magic item could be made in about an Hour for minimum cost...1/10th retail price which allows it to be sold for a good profit). Even has some "assembly line" made magic items in his store :D