Cost to create magic ammunition [Archive] - Wizards Community

Cost to create magic ammunition [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Failut
06-27-04, 04:35 AM I have seen several places where people state the cost to creat magic ammo assums that you are making 50 of them. I think that I failed my search check (it being 2:30 AM here might help) and I was wondering if someone could point me to the location of that in the books or SRD.

Thanks!
DemonMonkeyBoy
06-27-04, 05:33 AM :b: You will need a DMG or follow this LINK (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/magicItemsAW.html) At the bottom of the first weapons table there is a note that says "1 This price is for 50 arrows, crossbow bolts, or sling bullets."

Than late they give the price for master work weapons and they are listed at (50) +350gp.
Failut
06-27-04, 05:39 AM Ahh, thanks!.. Since I have my DMG here with me at work (got to love the night shift in a server room). I found it once you pointed our where it is.

Thanks again!
Cinder
06-27-04, 02:57 PM Instead of creating 50 +3 arrows for 18,000 GP (which comes out to 360 GP per arrow), buy your mage a scroll of Flame Arrow for 375 GP, give her another 400 GP to buy the materials needed to copy this 4th level spell into her book so she can have it permanently, and then have her cast it once per day.

You'll more than recoup the cost the very first time she does it.
Seeker95
06-27-04, 04:41 PM Cinder, that is very resourceful!
ninja1
06-28-04, 01:24 AM Originally posted by Cinder
buy your mage a scroll of Flame Arrow OMG!! I cannot believe I overlooked that!

Thanks Cinder!! :)

Slightly off topic, could ammuntion be crafted in batches of less than 50?

Would the price be reduced accordingly? For example, would one single arrow be priced at 1/50th the market value of the batch and cost the caster only 1/50 of the gp and xp?
Nom
06-28-04, 04:18 AM Flame arrow is a nice idea, but has several limitations. It lasts only 10 min/level, so you need to cast it before every event, where an event is up to an hour or two of activity. This isn't a big cost for a 3rd level spell, though it does chew up a slot that could be used for haste or fireball) or something similar.

Second, flame arrow adds 1d6 flaming damage, but doesn't make the projectile magic. Against generic opponents, this is probably a good trade. Against anything with DR/magic or fire resistance (or both), it's a loss.

If what you particularly want is flame and you've a friendly arcane caster with a few 3rd level slots, flame arrow is superior to the "flaming" enhancement on ammunition. If you want magic arrows, you need to enhance them.
Slightly off topic, could ammuntion be crafted in batches of less than 50?

Would the price be reduced accordingly? For example, would one single arrow be priced at 1/50th the market value of the batch and cost the caster only 1/50 of the gp and xp?Considering that ammunition rather gets the short end of the stick otherwise, I'd allow it as DM. I think it provides a good "feel"; craft a small run (1-10) of "uber" ammunition, or craft a bow or similar instead if you want bulk.
Cinder
06-28-04, 02:52 PM Originally posted by Seeker95 Cinder, that is very resourceful! (bows) Thats what they pay me the big gold for. Originally posted by ninja1 OMG!! I cannot believe I overlooked that! Thanks Cinder!! :) (bows again) "Thank you, thank you. You're all too kind- I'm here 'til 11 and don't forget to tip your waitress."

seriously. there are many spells which don't get their due because many spellcasters ALWAYS take the standard one likes Fireball or other blasters. another often overlooked yet supremely wicked one is Blindness.

back to the post. if your DM is cool enough to use the MetaMagic Components rules from Unearthed Arcana, you can make the spell EMPOWERED (extra 50% of damage ) by using a carved flint arrowhead that costs 1,500 GP. thats a bit o' overkill in my opinion, but if you know you're going to be fighting the BBG it could very well be worth it. Originally posted by Nom Flame arrow is a nice idea, but has several limitations. It lasts only 10 min/level, so you need to cast it before every event, where an event is up to an hour or two of activity. This isn't a big cost for a 3rd level spell, though it does chew up a slot that could be used for haste or fireball) or something similar. lol 'ONLY' 10 minutes a level?! geesh, I've always found those kind of durations to be more than enough time. Its going to go minimum of almost an hour. I'm not sure I follow what you mean by 'events.' I use FA before any immediate combat: with a minimum range of 35' feet, you can cast it on the ranger's arrows from afar even if you happen to be surprised. If your combats are lasting an hour or two in game time, umm, you're doing something wrong. ;) Funny you should mention Haste because thats the other spell I always take- when the missile guys are getting 3 shots a round, all with an extra D6, it sure makes Fireball look like a bad call.Nom Second, flame arrow adds 1d6 flaming damage, but doesn't make the projectile magic. Against generic opponents, this is probably a good trade. Against anything with DR/magic or fire resistance (or both), it's a loss. Fair points, although Flame Arrow allows neither save or spell resistance. Most mages are smart enough to get the ENERGY SUBSTITUTION feat and your fighters are smart enough to own at least a +1 bow to make all the projectiles shot from it count as being magical in the first place. :teach: (well ok, they're not smart enough, but you're smart enough to make sure they do the right thing)

Bottom line, most one-use magic items are not worth the GP. You're better off with lasting, permanent things. Instead of spending that 18G's of gold on 50 one-shot projectiles, you're much better off getting them a +3 bow/crossbow instead. Better yet, just give the $ to your mage. :king:
Nom
06-28-04, 10:50 PM Originally posted by Cinder
'ONLY' 10 minutes a level?! geesh, I've always found those kind of durations to be more than enough time. Its going to go minimum of almost an hour. I'm not sure I follow what you mean by 'events.' I use FA before any immediate combat: with a minimum range of 35' feet, you can cast it on the ranger's arrows from afar even if you happen to be surprised. If your combats are lasting an hour or two in game time, umm, you're doing something wrong. ;)'event' as in a single period of adventuring. That can easily take several hours if the DM is on the ball, especially in the wild or in a large cave system or building. In contrast, a small manor should be within the duration of 10/min level for a decent level caster.
Fair points, although Flame Arrow allows neither save or spell resistance. Most mages are smart enough to get the ENERGY SUBSTITUTION feat and your fighters are smart enough to own at least a +1 bow to make all the projectiles shot from it count as being magical in the first place.Energy substitution isn't "core", and frankly I find it a fairly cheesy feat, especially for no cost beyond the feat. There's a reason most energy spells have different "form factors" depending on the type of spell. I would laugh at a player who proposed subsituting a "lightning bolt" for a "cold bolt" or "sonic bolt" using otherwise identical rules.

In contrast, combining flame arrow with a +1 bow is obvious, and a good use of the gold.
Bottom line, most one-use magic items are not worth the GP. You're better off with lasting, permanent things. Instead of spending that 18G's of gold on 50 one-shot projectiles, you're much better off getting them a +3 bow/crossbow instead. Better yet, just give the $ to your mage.I agree. Magic projectiles only make sense if the DM allows them to be crafted in batches (much) smaller than 50 for a comparable price modifier.

Hmm, although there is another use for them. A +3 bow firing "+1 slaying" arrows is a lot cheaper than a +3 slaying bow, due to the way stacking effects of missiles and bows work vs stacking of bonuses on a single item.
lanilifar
06-28-04, 11:05 PM Of course Greater Magic Weapon is also 3rd level, and affects 50 projectiles.

Granted it only lasts 1 hr/level. ;)
Cinder
06-29-04, 02:07 PM Almost any missile of Slaying is worth the cost. Especially against Undead and Dragons. And double especially against :censored: energy-drainers.

So yeah, they're a good investment and one of the few worthwhile magic one-shot missiles. Wouldn't get a slaying bow because its too specific; I agree with Nom that you're much better off with a +3 bow and several different slaying arrows. (I disagree with him about energy substitution because mages are clever enough to adapt magic to meet their needs and most feats don't have any extra cost beyond selecting the feat itself)

I still believe Flame Arrow can work for a party; ours has gotten procedure down to a SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) where we clear a few rooms, search them after an area is secure, then 'bubble' with my Rope Trick so we can rest up & be fresh. That way the duration of an hour works for the important battles.

Does it work all the time? No. But we get enough extra D6's out of it and our group saves enough gold for other things that this is how we adventure. And in a land of multiple ray-shooting, floating :behold: adventurers need every edge they can get.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Failut 06-27-04, 04:35 AM	I have seen several places where people state the cost to creat magic ammo assums that you are making 50 of them. I think that I failed my search check (it being 2:30 AM here might help) and I was wondering if someone could point me to the location of that in the books or SRD. Thanks!
DemonMonkeyBoy 06-27-04, 05:33 AM	:b: You will need a DMG or follow this LINK (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/magicItemsAW.html) At the bottom of the first weapons table there is a note that says "1 This price is for 50 arrows, crossbow bolts, or sling bullets." Than late they give the price for master work weapons and they are listed at (50) +350gp.
Failut 06-27-04, 05:39 AM	Ahh, thanks!.. Since I have my DMG here with me at work (got to love the night shift in a server room). I found it once you pointed our where it is. Thanks again!
Cinder 06-27-04, 02:57 PM	Instead of creating 50 +3 arrows for 18,000 GP (which comes out to 360 GP per arrow), buy your mage a scroll of Flame Arrow for 375 GP, give her another 400 GP to buy the materials needed to copy this 4th level spell into her book so she can have it permanently, and then have her cast it once per day. You'll more than recoup the cost the very first time she does it.
Seeker95 06-27-04, 04:41 PM	Cinder, that is very resourceful!
ninja1 06-28-04, 01:24 AM	Originally posted by Cinder buy your mage a scroll of Flame Arrow OMG!! I cannot believe I overlooked that! Thanks Cinder!! :) Slightly off topic, could ammuntion be crafted in batches of less than 50? Would the price be reduced accordingly? For example, would one single arrow be priced at 1/50th the market value of the batch and cost the caster only 1/50 of the gp and xp?
Nom 06-28-04, 04:18 AM	Flame arrow is a nice idea, but has several limitations. It lasts only 10 min/level, so you need to cast it before every event, where an event is up to an hour or two of activity. This isn't a big cost for a 3rd level spell, though it does chew up a slot that could be used for haste or fireball) or something similar. Second, flame arrow adds 1d6 flaming damage, but doesn't make the projectile magic. Against generic opponents, this is probably a good trade. Against anything with DR/magic or fire resistance (or both), it's a loss. If what you particularly want is flame and you've a friendly arcane caster with a few 3rd level slots, flame arrow is superior to the "flaming" enhancement on ammunition. If you want magic arrows, you need to enhance them. Slightly off topic, could ammuntion be crafted in batches of less than 50? Would the price be reduced accordingly? For example, would one single arrow be priced at 1/50th the market value of the batch and cost the caster only 1/50 of the gp and xp?Considering that ammunition rather gets the short end of the stick otherwise, I'd allow it as DM. I think it provides a good "feel"; craft a small run (1-10) of "uber" ammunition, or craft a bow or similar instead if you want bulk.
Cinder 06-28-04, 02:52 PM	Originally posted by Seeker95 Cinder, that is very resourceful! (bows) Thats what they pay me the big gold for. Originally posted by ninja1 OMG!! I cannot believe I overlooked that! Thanks Cinder!! :) (bows again) "Thank you, thank you. You're all too kind- I'm here 'til 11 and don't forget to tip your waitress." seriously. there are many spells which don't get their due because many spellcasters ALWAYS take the standard one likes Fireball or other blasters. another often overlooked yet supremely wicked one is Blindness. back to the post. if your DM is cool enough to use the MetaMagic Components rules from Unearthed Arcana, you can make the spell EMPOWERED (extra 50% of damage ) by using a carved flint arrowhead that costs 1,500 GP. thats a bit o' overkill in my opinion, but if you know you're going to be fighting the BBG it could very well be worth it. Originally posted by Nom Flame arrow is a nice idea, but has several limitations. It lasts only 10 min/level, so you need to cast it before every event, where an event is up to an hour or two of activity. This isn't a big cost for a 3rd level spell, though it does chew up a slot that could be used for haste or fireball) or something similar. lol 'ONLY' 10 minutes a level?! geesh, I've always found those kind of durations to be more than enough time. Its going to go minimum of almost an hour. I'm not sure I follow what you mean by 'events.' I use FA before any immediate combat: with a minimum range of 35' feet, you can cast it on the ranger's arrows from afar even if you happen to be surprised. If your combats are lasting an hour or two in game time, umm, you're doing something wrong. ;) Funny you should mention Haste because thats the other spell I always take- when the missile guys are getting 3 shots a round, all with an extra D6, it sure makes Fireball look like a bad call.Nom Second, flame arrow adds 1d6 flaming damage, but doesn't make the projectile magic. Against generic opponents, this is probably a good trade. Against anything with DR/magic or fire resistance (or both), it's a loss. Fair points, although Flame Arrow allows neither save or spell resistance. Most mages are smart enough to get the ENERGY SUBSTITUTION feat and your fighters are smart enough to own at least a +1 bow to make all the projectiles shot from it count as being magical in the first place. :teach: (well ok, they're not smart enough, but you're smart enough to make sure they do the right thing) Bottom line, most one-use magic items are not worth the GP. You're better off with lasting, permanent things. Instead of spending that 18G's of gold on 50 one-shot projectiles, you're much better off getting them a +3 bow/crossbow instead. Better yet, just give the $ to your mage. :king:
Nom 06-28-04, 10:50 PM	Originally posted by Cinder 'ONLY' 10 minutes a level?! geesh, I've always found those kind of durations to be more than enough time. Its going to go minimum of almost an hour. I'm not sure I follow what you mean by 'events.' I use FA before any immediate combat: with a minimum range of 35' feet, you can cast it on the ranger's arrows from afar even if you happen to be surprised. If your combats are lasting an hour or two in game time, umm, you're doing something wrong. ;)'event' as in a single period of adventuring. That can easily take several hours if the DM is on the ball, especially in the wild or in a large cave system or building. In contrast, a small manor should be within the duration of 10/min level for a decent level caster. Fair points, although Flame Arrow allows neither save or spell resistance. Most mages are smart enough to get the ENERGY SUBSTITUTION feat and your fighters are smart enough to own at least a +1 bow to make all the projectiles shot from it count as being magical in the first place.Energy substitution isn't "core", and frankly I find it a fairly cheesy feat, especially for no cost beyond the feat. There's a reason most energy spells have different "form factors" depending on the type of spell. I would laugh at a player who proposed subsituting a "lightning bolt" for a "cold bolt" or "sonic bolt" using otherwise identical rules. In contrast, combining flame arrow with a +1 bow is obvious, and a good use of the gold. Bottom line, most one-use magic items are not worth the GP. You're better off with lasting, permanent things. Instead of spending that 18G's of gold on 50 one-shot projectiles, you're much better off getting them a +3 bow/crossbow instead. Better yet, just give the $ to your mage.I agree. Magic projectiles only make sense if the DM allows them to be crafted in batches (much) smaller than 50 for a comparable price modifier. Hmm, although there is another use for them. A +3 bow firing "+1 slaying" arrows is a lot cheaper than a +3 slaying bow, due to the way stacking effects of missiles and bows work vs stacking of bonuses on a single item.
lanilifar 06-28-04, 11:05 PM	Of course Greater Magic Weapon is also 3rd level, and affects 50 projectiles. Granted it only lasts 1 hr/level. ;)
Cinder 06-29-04, 02:07 PM	Almost any missile of Slaying is worth the cost. Especially against Undead and Dragons. And double especially against :censored: energy-drainers. So yeah, they're a good investment and one of the few worthwhile magic one-shot missiles. Wouldn't get a slaying bow because its too specific; I agree with Nom that you're much better off with a +3 bow and several different slaying arrows. (I disagree with him about energy substitution because mages are clever enough to adapt magic to meet their needs and most feats don't have any extra cost beyond selecting the feat itself) I still believe Flame Arrow can work for a party; ours has gotten procedure down to a SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) where we clear a few rooms, search them after an area is secure, then 'bubble' with my Rope Trick so we can rest up & be fresh. That way the duration of an hour works for the important battles. Does it work all the time? No. But we get enough extra D6's out of it and our group saves enough gold for other things that this is how we adventure. And in a land of multiple ray-shooting, floating :behold: adventurers need every edge they can get.