Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ElvenAssassin 07-26-07, 08:53 PM	Please don't flame my ignorance O.o :gah: I expect that there is no loophole around this, but I've always had a bit of trouble wrapping my mind around rules sometimes. (ah, rules are meant to be broken, anyways ^.~ ) Even though p57 of the PH says a wizard "cannot cannot prepare any spell not recorded in her spellbook", page 178 under "Arcane Magical Writings" contradicts this and explains that well, yes, they can... but it's simply not easy to do if you're borrowing someone else's book. It still has to be A spellbook, but it can be done. The next page follows "sorcerers do not have spell books and do not prepare their spells". I understand that. If a wizard can "read magic" a book to decipher someone else's book, there's nothing stoping a sorcerer from knowing the contents, either. But what's to stop him or her from treating a spellbook like a giant compendium of scrolls? I'm wondering if this is the loophole I need for Crafting Arms and Armour and not knowing cat's grace... :plotting: It certainly seems plausible that a sorcerer could just buy enough scrolls for every day of work needed, but even asking our party's wizard to churn 'em out, this still seems excessive. (Why not let him make it for me? He's charging a fee for the service and I don't really get it cheaper than going to a shop :nonono: ) Any advice or explanation would be great. Even if it's a solid "no" I just need to understand why. Thanks a bunch in advance!
ArcTan 07-26-07, 09:01 PM	Spellbooks are technically mundane items, not magic items. No page from a spellbook can ever be used as a scroll, by anybody.
ElvenAssassin 07-26-07, 09:08 PM	damn, there went that pipe dream... does make sense though; thank-you
Vharuck 07-26-07, 09:36 PM	Yeah, spells in a spellbook aren't scrolls. It's just that wizards can write new spells by studying a scroll of the spell; it probably isn't the same in form.
Kouk 07-26-07, 10:04 PM	I'm wondering if this is the loophole I need for Crafting Arms and Armour and not knowing cat's grace... :plotting: It certainly seems plausible that a sorcerer could just buy enough scrolls for every day of work needed, but even asking our party's wizard to churn 'em out, this still seems excessive. (Why not let him make it for me? He's charging a fee for the service and I don't really get it cheaper than going to a shop :nonono: ) Actually, your wizard can provide the spell for you. Creating Magic Items To create magic items, spellcasters use special feats. They invest time, money, and their own personal energy (in the form of experience points) in an item’s creation. Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item’s creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). So you can use Scrolls to craft, or have your friend with the spell stand next to you and cast it at the appropriate time during the crafting. I'm fairly certain there is a more detailed explanation in the rules, but I can't locate it right now. And rather than Scrolls, if you will be making a lot of something then a Wand will probably be cheaper (perhaps you can find a partially used wand in a second-hand magic shop?). You might also talk with your DM about allowing other, similar spells to work in place of the prerequisites.
Traken 07-26-07, 11:42 PM	You might want to take a look at http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060526a . It gives some rules about sharing xp costs, material costs, etc. for making magic items.
ElvenAssassin 07-27-07, 03:46 AM	@Traken: I definitally appreciate the link, even though I've already seen it... it's what got me wondering if picking up Craft Arms and Armour was a viable hobby in the first place ^^ @Kouk: I really appreciate the wand idea... I'm not sure why I didn't make the leap in logic in the first place. I only *just* realized if I could use a scroll, maybe I could just get him to cast for me. *smiles* seems you beat me to it XD Thank-you, both of you. I appreciate the ideas to mull over!
ServanWolf 07-27-07, 06:56 AM	you could also use charm person or monster to let an enemy monster or simply wizard you see to cast the spell for you :p and even use xp for you :p *maybe you could nevertheless give the xp*. 1 hour/level...lvl 12 ..12 hours :D....perfectly ^^
Kouk 07-27-07, 02:25 PM	Glad if I could help.
risner 07-27-07, 06:19 PM	The next page follows "sorcerers do not have spell books and do not prepare their spells". I understand that. there's nothing stoping a sorcerer from knowing the contents, either. But what's to stop him or her from treating a spellbook like a giant compendium of scrolls? I'm wondering if this is the loophole I need for Crafting Arms and Armour and not knowing cat's grace.. A few facts: 1) Spellbooks are not magical, so UMD is useless for any application involving a spellbook. 2) Sorcerers don't prepare spells, so a spellbook for a Sorcerer is a nice clump of paper that will fetch good money from a NPC Wizard. 3) If cat's grace is not a spell on a Wiz/Sorc spell list, then it wouldn't matter if it is in a spellbook or not, it wouldn't be usable by either a Wizard or a Sorcerer (and yes it could be in a Wizard spellbook if that Wizard had a spell list augmentation to add it to his spell list.) So your theory is broken at every level. There simply isn't any legal way to make anything you have suggested work.
Illithid_Tentacles 07-27-07, 10:19 PM	Seeing as how spellbooks are not magic items, I'd have to say no. That's like trying to use UMD on a set of lockpicks or a sword. Doesn't work that way.