Counter or Dispel effects [Archive] - Wizards Community

Counter or Dispel effects [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Arcandio
12-17-07, 04:44 PM Just to clarify, when a spell says that it counters or dispels a different spell, when you cast it to get rid of an ongoing effect (such as using daylight to get rid of darkness) does the dispelling effect actually stick around, or is it spent in getting rid of the ongoing?

Full example:

Darkness is active in a corner of the room. I cast daylight to get rid of it. Is there now no daylight effect but no darkness? Or is there no Darkness but there is Daylight?
Kouk
12-18-07, 01:11 AM Just to clarify, when a spell says that it counters or dispels a different spell, when you cast it to get rid of an ongoing effect (such as using daylight to get rid of darkness) does the dispelling effect actually stick around, or is it spent in getting rid of the ongoing?

Full example:

Darkness is active in a corner of the room. I cast daylight to get rid of it. Is there now no daylight effect but no darkness? Or is there no Darkness but there is Daylight?

Countering a spell: Counterspells

It is possible to cast any spell as a counterspell. By doing so, you are using the spell’s energy to disrupt the casting of the same spell by another character. Counterspelling works even if one spell is divine and the other arcane.

How Counterspells Work
To use a counterspell, you must select an opponent as the target of the counterspell. You do this by choosing the ready action. In doing so, you elect to wait to complete your action until your opponent tries to cast a spell. (You may still move your speed, since ready is a standard action.)

If the target of your counterspell tries to cast a spell, make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + the spell’s level). This check is a free action. If the check succeeds, you correctly identify the opponent’s spell and can attempt to counter it. If the check fails, you can’t do either of these things.

To complete the action, you must then cast the correct spell. As a general rule, a spell can only counter itself. If you are able to cast the same spell and you have it prepared (if you prepare spells), you cast it, altering it slightly to create a counterspell effect. If the target is within range, both spells automatically negate each other with no other results.

Counterspelling Metamagic Spells
Metamagic feats are not taken into account when determining whether a spell can be countered

Specific Exceptions
Some spells specifically counter each other, especially when they have diametrically opposed effects.

Dispel Magic as a Counterspell
You can use dispel magic to counterspell another spellcaster, and you don’t need to identify the spell he or she is casting. However, dispel magic doesn’t always work as a counterspell.

This means if someone is casting Darkness and you have Daylight prepared, you can use Spellcraft to determine he is casting Darkness and attempt to use Daylight to Counter it before it is cast.

Dispel is in the PHB Glossary. It means "to negate, suppress or remove one or more existing spells or effects. Dispel usually refers to Dispel Magic, though other forms of dispelling are possible."

This means if someone casts a Darkness spell and you cast Daylight right on top of the Darkness, you cancel the spells out as if you successfully cast Dispel Magic. You used the Daylight to Dispel the Darkness rather than using it to create a Daylight effect, so there are no magical light changes left.

Daylight
Evocation [Light]
Level: Brd 3, Clr 3, Drd 3, Pal 3, Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Object touched
Duration: 10 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

The object touched sheds light as bright as full daylight in a 60-foot radius, and dim light for an additional 60 feet beyond that. Creatures that take penalties in bright light also take them while within the radius of this magical light. Despite its name, this spell is not the equivalent of daylight for the purposes of creatures that are damaged or destroyed by bright light.

If daylight is cast on a small object that is then placed inside or under a light-proof covering, the spell’s effects are blocked until the covering is removed.

Daylight brought into an area of magical darkness (or vice versa) is temporarily negated, so that the otherwise prevailing light conditions exist in the overlapping areas of effect.

Daylight counters or dispels any darkness spell of equal or lower level, such as darkness.

If you cast Daylight onto an object and then bring that object into the area of a Darkness spell, then both effects are temporarily negated rather than Dispelled.

EDIT: Here is an excerpt from the More Magical Oddities (Part 2) Rules of the Game article http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050607a: Opposing Spells

Some spells or groups of spells negate each other. For example, haste and slow counter or dispel each other, and the darkness spell can counter or dispel any spell with the light descriptor, provided the subject spell is of an equal or lower level.

When two spells counter or dispel each other, either spell can function as a counterspell against the other, as noted in Part One.

The rules aren't very clear about what happens when opposing spells dispel each other. In general, you can rule that the two spells negate each other. When two opposing spells have targets, one spell can remove the other when aimed at the same target. Treat the second spell just like a targeted dispel magic except that no caster level check is required and only the opposing spell is negated. For example, if a creature has received a haste spell, targeting a slow spell on the same creature automatically removes the haste effect, leaving the subject neither slowed nor hasted. When two opposing spells can affect multiple targets, they only negate each other when they share the same targets. For example, when you cast a slow spell on six enemies and two of them have received haste effects, the spell removes the two haste effects, leaving the other four targets subject to the slow spell's normal effects.

When two opposing spells have areas, one spell can remove the other when aimed at the same area. If the second spell's area covers the first spell's point of origin, both spells are completely negated (no caster level check is required). If the second spell's area of effect merely overlaps the first spell's area without covering the spell's point of origin, the two spells negate each other only the area where the areas overlap.
groveborn
12-18-07, 03:39 AM The effect of the newly cast daylight spell should remain. Since there is no rules specifying otherwise, treat it as though it was both a dispelling and a casting.

Remember that they can usually only dispel spells of lower caster level, therefore they are more powerful.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Arcandio 12-17-07, 04:44 PM	Just to clarify, when a spell says that it counters or dispels a different spell, when you cast it to get rid of an ongoing effect (such as using daylight to get rid of darkness) does the dispelling effect actually stick around, or is it spent in getting rid of the ongoing? Full example: Darkness is active in a corner of the room. I cast daylight to get rid of it. Is there now no daylight effect but no darkness? Or is there no Darkness but there is Daylight?
Kouk 12-18-07, 01:11 AM	Just to clarify, when a spell says that it counters or dispels a different spell, when you cast it to get rid of an ongoing effect (such as using daylight to get rid of darkness) does the dispelling effect actually stick around, or is it spent in getting rid of the ongoing? Full example: Darkness is active in a corner of the room. I cast daylight to get rid of it. Is there now no daylight effect but no darkness? Or is there no Darkness but there is Daylight? Countering a spell: Counterspells It is possible to cast any spell as a counterspell. By doing so, you are using the spell’s energy to disrupt the casting of the same spell by another character. Counterspelling works even if one spell is divine and the other arcane. How Counterspells Work To use a counterspell, you must select an opponent as the target of the counterspell. You do this by choosing the ready action. In doing so, you elect to wait to complete your action until your opponent tries to cast a spell. (You may still move your speed, since ready is a standard action.) If the target of your counterspell tries to cast a spell, make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + the spell’s level). This check is a free action. If the check succeeds, you correctly identify the opponent’s spell and can attempt to counter it. If the check fails, you can’t do either of these things. To complete the action, you must then cast the correct spell. As a general rule, a spell can only counter itself. If you are able to cast the same spell and you have it prepared (if you prepare spells), you cast it, altering it slightly to create a counterspell effect. If the target is within range, both spells automatically negate each other with no other results. Counterspelling Metamagic Spells Metamagic feats are not taken into account when determining whether a spell can be countered Specific Exceptions Some spells specifically counter each other, especially when they have diametrically opposed effects. Dispel Magic as a Counterspell You can use dispel magic to counterspell another spellcaster, and you don’t need to identify the spell he or she is casting. However, dispel magic doesn’t always work as a counterspell. This means if someone is casting Darkness and you have Daylight prepared, you can use Spellcraft to determine he is casting Darkness and attempt to use Daylight to Counter it before it is cast. Dispel is in the PHB Glossary. It means "to negate, suppress or remove one or more existing spells or effects. Dispel usually refers to Dispel Magic, though other forms of dispelling are possible." This means if someone casts a Darkness spell and you cast Daylight right on top of the Darkness, you cancel the spells out as if you successfully cast Dispel Magic. You used the Daylight to Dispel the Darkness rather than using it to create a Daylight effect, so there are no magical light changes left. Daylight Evocation [Light] Level: Brd 3, Clr 3, Drd 3, Pal 3, Sor/Wiz 3 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Touch Target: Object touched Duration: 10 min./level (D) Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: No The object touched sheds light as bright as full daylight in a 60-foot radius, and dim light for an additional 60 feet beyond that. Creatures that take penalties in bright light also take them while within the radius of this magical light. Despite its name, this spell is not the equivalent of daylight for the purposes of creatures that are damaged or destroyed by bright light. If daylight is cast on a small object that is then placed inside or under a light-proof covering, the spell’s effects are blocked until the covering is removed. Daylight brought into an area of magical darkness (or vice versa) is temporarily negated, so that the otherwise prevailing light conditions exist in the overlapping areas of effect. Daylight counters or dispels any darkness spell of equal or lower level, such as darkness. If you cast Daylight onto an object and then bring that object into the area of a Darkness spell, then both effects are temporarily negated rather than Dispelled. EDIT: Here is an excerpt from the More Magical Oddities (Part 2) Rules of the Game article http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050607a: Opposing Spells Some spells or groups of spells negate each other. For example, haste and slow counter or dispel each other, and the darkness spell can counter or dispel any spell with the light descriptor, provided the subject spell is of an equal or lower level. When two spells counter or dispel each other, either spell can function as a counterspell against the other, as noted in Part One. The rules aren't very clear about what happens when opposing spells dispel each other. In general, you can rule that the two spells negate each other. When two opposing spells have targets, one spell can remove the other when aimed at the same target. Treat the second spell just like a targeted dispel magic except that no caster level check is required and only the opposing spell is negated. For example, if a creature has received a haste spell, targeting a slow spell on the same creature automatically removes the haste effect, leaving the subject neither slowed nor hasted. When two opposing spells can affect multiple targets, they only negate each other when they share the same targets. For example, when you cast a slow spell on six enemies and two of them have received haste effects, the spell removes the two haste effects, leaving the other four targets subject to the slow spell's normal effects. When two opposing spells have areas, one spell can remove the other when aimed at the same area. If the second spell's area covers the first spell's point of origin, both spells are completely negated (no caster level check is required). If the second spell's area of effect merely overlaps the first spell's area without covering the spell's point of origin, the two spells negate each other only the area where the areas overlap.
groveborn 12-18-07, 03:39 AM	The effect of the newly cast daylight spell should remain. Since there is no rules specifying otherwise, treat it as though it was both a dispelling and a casting. Remember that they can usually only dispel spells of lower caster level, therefore they are more powerful.