Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lathaen 02-24-04, 02:41 PM	Hi all, I did not find this in the other counterspell post so I will ask here. Currently our sorceress is being counterspelled by an enemy sorceror. We stopped in the middle of the fight because of time reasons. My question: Our sorceress has the still spell and silent spell feats. If she casts her fireball stilled and silent, can it be counterspelled? Lathaen
tarkin 02-24-04, 02:43 PM	(Assuming no material components/foci required ) It can be counterspelled.... if they succesfully detect that it is being cast. The Sage has previously stated that the concentration of casting a spell is noteworthy. I would let someone attempt to counterspell by making a spot check of DC 10. Then they would have to use a Dispell Magic, as they would not know what spell was being cast. If material/foci components were required, I would let them make a spot check DC 5 to see the component, and a Spellcraft check, circumstance penalty -8 to get the right spell.
spike81101 02-24-04, 02:45 PM	From the SRD: Identify a spell being cast. (You must see or hear the spell’s verbal or somatic components.) No action required. No retry. Since it cannot be seen or heard it cannot be spellcrafted, thus it cannot be countered.
spike81101 02-24-04, 02:46 PM	I would let someone attempt to counterspell by making a spot check of DC 10. They must be able to see the material component, if they cannot see it or there isn't one, it can't be countered.
Beamup 02-24-04, 02:47 PM	Originally posted by spike81101 From the SRD: Since it cannot be seen or heard it cannot be spellcrafted, thus it cannot be countered. Except with dispel magic. If you use dispelling to counter, you don't need to know what spell it is.
Lathaen 02-24-04, 02:48 PM	hmm, good point about the components needed. What if someone could not see what components you were getting ready? So if you cast a spell still-ed, you do not have to make the somantic component to the spell, but you still have a look of concentration on your face? Lathaen
Beamup 02-24-04, 02:52 PM	Originally posted by Lathaen hmm, good point about the components needed. What if someone could not see what components you were getting ready? So if you cast a spell still-ed, you do not have to make the somantic component to the spell, but you still have a look of concentration on your face? Lathaen Right. So if it's also silent and you're not speaking an incantation, you can't tell what the spell is - only that you're casting one. Which means dispel magic is the only possible counterspell. (Though personally, I'd also allow guessing... if you think it's a Silent Stilled Fireball, you could try and counter with a Fireball... but if you're wrong, you lose the spell to no effect. That's not permitted by the rules as written, though.)
spike81101 02-24-04, 02:55 PM	Hmm...possible bluff check so that no one even knows that you're casting a spell?
Beamup 02-24-04, 03:00 PM	Originally posted by spike81101 Hmm...possible bluff check so that no one even knows that you're casting a spell? Creative... I might well allow that if I was DMing. But there's no provision in the rules for it.
spike81101 02-24-04, 03:04 PM	Creative... I might well allow that if I was DMing. But there's no provision in the rules for it. Sure there is: A successful Bluff check indicates that the target reacts as you wish, at least for a short time (usually 1 round or less) or believes something that you want it to believe. It's the general use of the skill, simply make an opposed roll.
Beamup 02-24-04, 03:08 PM	Originally posted by spike81101 It's the general use of the skill, simply make an opposed roll. I'll rephrase - there's no explicit provision in the rules for it. So, like any other reasonable but not-explicitly-covered use of a skill, it's the DM's call whether the skill can actually be used.