Post/Author/DateTime	Post
IceFractal 01-27-05, 02:29 AM	Here's a new spell that counterspellers (particularly chaotic ones) might find some use for. Trap Spell Abjuration [Chaotic] Level: Brd ?, Chaos ?, Magic ?, Sor/Wiz ? Components: V,S,M Casting Time: Instant action Range: See text Target: One spell being cast Duration: See text Saving Throw: None SR:: No This spell works like the counterspell option of Dispel Magic, with a few exceptions. First, like Fly it can be cast out of turn as a free action, so you can counterspell with it without readying an action. Secondly, instead of dispersing the spell, it temporarily contains it within an object. You must be in range of the spell you're trying to counterspell (for instance, within 600' of the caster to Trap a fireball from a 5th level caster), and have line of effect to the caster. If you make your dispel check, the spell is twisted away from its original course and pulled into the object you choose, where it is temporarily stored. How long its stored for depends on how much you succeed on the Dispel Check by: < 5: 2d4 rounds 5 - 10: 2d4 minutes > 10: 2d4 hours If the caster succeeds at a Spellcraft check (DC 10), then they know the magnitude (rounds/minutes/hours) of how long the spell will be trapped, but not the exact time. When the storage time ends, the holding object shatters and the spell bursts forth. Radius, burst, and area spells are centered on the object; cones, lines, and rays fire in a random direction (use the grenade-like weapon scatter table); targetted spells hit a random target within range (or fizzle if none is available); and touch spells fizzle unless someone is holding the object (in which case they're the target). Material Component: A die carved from gemstone, worth at least ? gp. Note: Yes, I'm aware that the Chaos and Magic domains already have spells at any level. Its just an option, as this spell seemed appropriate for those domains; you can either have both spells available, have the player pick one at character creation, or replace the existing spell with this one. Or just ignore it. With that out of the way, I'm wondering what level this spell should be, and how much the material component should cost. In comparison to Dispel Magic: - Only counterspells - Requires a material component - Can be risky at low levels if you make the dispel check by less than 5 + Doesn't need a readied action to counterspell + Can try to use it for a trap/unpleasant surprise, although the random duration makes this tricky ~ Range could be better or worse than dispel magic, depending on what you're trapping with it
Vanigo 01-27-05, 02:40 AM	That free action casting time is huge. In order to balance that, you'd have to raise the level so high that the +10 cap would be crippling. I don't think there's a level at which this spell would be neither broken nor gimped.
IceFractal 01-27-05, 03:47 AM	A quickened dispel magic is only 7th level, and this is significantly less powerful than that, so I'd think 6th level at maximum, and possibly lower. Also, I made some changes to simplify/clarify the spell, see the first post.
tarkin 01-27-05, 12:54 PM	This is a 9th level spell. You are ignoring the potential of the stored spell. And the potential of a Targetted Dispell Magic. I can quite easily do the following. Trap your fireball spell into an arrow. Fire the arrow at you. When the arrow hits you, it breaks,... releasing the trapped spell. OK, you wise up and change it so that if the object is destroyed, any trapped spells fizzle instead of activating. Still, I can: Trap your IceStorml spell into an item near you. Cast a targetted Dispell, targetting the "Trap Spell" spell, not the item. When I auto succeed in dispelling my own Trap Spell, I have Ice Stormed you using your own IceStorm.
dragoncc 01-27-05, 01:08 PM	To ease tarkin's concerns you could limit the storage object to one within close range (cause it's pretty hard to see little objects farther away anyway & players always will strive for the grain of sand at his opponents feet type of loophole IMO)
Vanigo 01-27-05, 02:57 PM	A quickened dispel magic is only 7th level, and this is significantly less powerful than that, so I'd think 6th level at maximum, and possibly lower. Also, I made some changes to simplify/clarify the spell, see the first post. No, it's significantly more powerful than that, since you can't cast a quickened dispel magic when it's not your turn. You still have to ready an action to counter with it. This, on the other hand... Of course, as I said, by 8th level, the +10 cap makes this useless. Kinda a lose-lose situation. You might be able to put this at ninth level and raise the cap to +20. It'd be really powerful that way, but it might not be flat-out broken.
IceFractal 01-27-05, 06:26 PM	Ok, to clarify: 1) The object you trap the spell in is a material component, you must be holding it. 2) Casting Dispel Magic on the Trap Spell will just fizzle the trapped spell, not release it. 3) Smashing the gem, now that's a bit trickier. On the one hand, I like the idea of a dangerous spell being trapped inside the gem, and just fizzling it when its smashed messes with that. On the other hand, I don't want to make the gem easily usable as a weapon. More on this later, but for now consider that its a diamond, i.e. very hard. Using it as the tip of an arrow: a) Wouldn't work, probably, as the gem must be die shaped. b) Most likely wouldn't even damage it, its diamond after all.
Vanigo 01-27-05, 07:20 PM	Actually, that's a fairly common misconception about diamonds. They're the hardest substance known to exist, true, but they're also brittle. It's pretty easy to crush a diamond.
IceFractal 01-27-05, 09:39 PM	Hmm, but would they actually shatter just from being thrown at someone? Also, how about this as an idea: Casting Trap Spell or Dispel Magic on the gem after a spell is trapped there adds a number of rounds/minutes/hours equal to half your caster level to the containment time. Hitting it Mordenkainen's Disjunction or putting it in an antimagic field destroys the trapped spell, making it an ordinary gem. Shattering the gem creates an unpredictable effect. Roll 1d6: 1 - The spell goes off as if the containment had expired. 2-4 - A glowing gem-shape forms where the gem was. In 1d4 rounds or when the duration would expire normally (whichever is sooner) it goes off, as if the gem's duration had expired. 5-6 - The spell fizzles with no effect. This way shattering/dispelling the gem doesn't get rid of the spell conveniently, but it also makes it hard to use the gem as a weapon. True, in many battles disposing of the gem before it goes off will be easy, but in a confined area (arena, locked room, dungeon, etc) or with a truly dangerous spell (gate to the abyss, high level summon monster, earthquake inside a dungeon) this could be a problem that should be harder than just smashing the gem to solve.
Vanigo 01-28-05, 02:31 AM	Hmm, but would they actually shatter just from being thrown at someone? Probably not from throwing it, although it might chip or crack if it hits a hard surface. On the other hand, if you stick a moving arrowshaft behind it...