Post/Author/DateTime	Post
yant 01-17-07, 08:03 AM	Hi, I have a rule query for D&D experts here. There's been a discussion in my game about counterspelling greater dispel magic. Situation: A monster cast Greater Dispel Magic (area) at a Sorcerer PC. The Sorcerer wants to counterspell with his known spell Greater dispel magic. One person says that the incoming GDM is automatically negated according to the rule: If you are able to cast the same spell and you have it prepared (if you prepare spells), you cast it, altering it slightly to create a counterspell effect. If the target is within range, both spells automatically negate each other with no other results. The other person says that the sorcerer needs to make a dispel check (so only has about 50% chance of counterspelling) according to the rule: Dispel Magic as a Counterspell: You can use dispel magic to counterspell another spellcaster, and you don't need to identify the spell he or she is casting. However, dispel magic doesn't always work as a counterspell (see the spell description). It seems that one reads that the Dispel Magic as a counterspell entry has an implicit "Dispel magic can also be used the following way:" The other one reads that it has an implicit: "Exception: Dispel magic can only be used the following way:" Can anybody sheds light on this. Is there an official clarification? Common interpretation? etc. Thanks Yan
WinDReiN 01-17-07, 08:51 AM	Hi, One person says that the incoming GDM is automatically negated according to the rule: If you are able to cast the same spell and you have it prepared (if you prepare spells), you cast it, altering it slightly to create a counterspell effect. If the target is within range, both spells automatically negate each other with no other results. This is the right way. You simply readed an action, have the spell the opposed caster casts, and counter it... If you readed a Greater Dispell Magic spell to counter any spell that is going to be cast, then use the other option.
runestar 01-17-07, 08:53 AM	Dispel magic would automatically counter another dispel magic - no caster lv check would be necessary in this case.:)
Novacat 01-17-07, 10:10 AM	Ditto. You only need a CL check when using GDM to counterspell any other spell. The mechanics of counterspelling grant automatic success when you are using the same spell as the caster (or in some cases, polar opposite spells).
The Simbul 01-17-07, 06:08 PM	Ditto @ WinDReiN, runestar, & Novacat... ...however its worth noting whether or not the monster actual cast a greater dispel magic spell, or if it used a greater dispel magic spell-like ability...as in it can make the answer much more convoluted and tricky in the case of the latter, and I ask because the majority of monsters have spell-like abilities instead of spellcasting abilities
Thiez 01-17-07, 06:16 PM	"as in it can make the answer much more convoluted and tricky in the case of the latter" Not really. IIRC SLA's can't be counterspelled, and they can only be dispelled if they have a non-instantaneous duration. So a dispel magic SLA could not be counterspelled in any way.
The Simbul 01-17-07, 07:13 PM	"as in it can make the answer much more convoluted and tricky in the case of the latter" Not really. IIRC SLA's can't be counterspelled, and they can only be dispelled if they have a non-instantaneous duration. So a dispel magic SLA could not be counterspelled in any way.Until you throw this wrench into the equation, from Rules of the Game: All About Spell-like Abilities. Part 2A spell-like ability cannot be used as a counterspell, and it is not subject to counterspells. A counterspell involves recognizing a spell as it is being cast, then quickly altering that same spell so as to create an opposite effect that cancels out the original spell. A spell-like ability is essentially hardwired into its user's psyche, and its power is released mentally. The process is sufficiently different from spellcasting so it that doesn't allow a foe to identify the spell-like ability, and a counterspell cannot interfere with the spell-like ability's magical energy as it can with a spell. As noted earlier, a spell-like ability is subject to dispelling (provided the spell it duplicates is subject to dispelling). When a spell-like ability can be dispelled (as most of them are) one can effectively counter them with a dispel magic spell. While spell-like abilities are not normally subject to counterspells, dispel magic is not really a counterspell. When you use dispel magic as a counterspell, what you're really doing is casting a quick, targeted dispel effect at the correct moment to negate the enemy spell and not creating an opposite magical effect that cancels your enemy's spell.Thus, under that scenario, you can use greater dispel magic to counterspell a Monster's greater dispel magic spell-like ability, except in this instance you actually would need to roll a dispel check, whereas if the Monster cast greater dispel magic as an actual spell, then you would not.
runestar 01-17-07, 10:52 PM	I think you might be allowed to use dispel magic as a SLA to counterspell, since the spell's desc says you can, which would technically override the restriction on SLAs not being able to counterspell. I am aware of the "Rules of the Game" article mentioned by Simbul, but it seems quite weird, and I am not sure what to make of it. So for now, I am pretending it does not exist.:P