Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mike Czaplinski 03-30-06, 03:24 PM	... And still no reportage of EMH-11 or XMH-3 for me. I can only assume that whatever 'reporting irregularities' have caused the unaccountable delay have not been fixed and, given that the crash of the whole RPGA ordering system took over a week to fix, won't be fixed any time in the forseeable future. That means I won't get the 16 reward points, which means I won't get any cards in this mailing through no fault of my own. But, that's OK: I find myself playing much less RPGA sanctioned games of late for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is my continued amazement at the level of 'support' that WOTC gives the RPGA. Yup, I'm really looking foward to Xen'drik Adventures. MikeC
Madfox11 03-31-06, 05:55 AM	The reason WF booking errors have not yet been solved has to do with the problems with the database that had priority [SRM told me through mail] (and who blames them?). Being angry about the fact that implementing a new database costed 2 weeks as opposed to 2 days is also pointless. It happens. Being a software engineer myself, I thought the RPGA was rather positive on them needing only 2 days and not expecting any problems afterwards. Sure, if WotC was willing to pay for a double-system, a test server and who knows what, the public might never have learned of the problems, but that costs loads of money and I doubt the RPGA database is that important. Personally I am even more surprised with this demand for reward points. For years, the RPGA did not hand out ANY rewards to players, and now all of a suddent people are complaining that because of database problems they are missing 1 or 2 cards which you can only use in RPGA campaigns. Why all this *****ing? :confused: Of course, in case of Mark of Heroes your character does not get the xp, gp and certs, but even that is not too problematic for me. I play these games for fun, and even consider the gp and xp an added bonus. The campaign even contains level bumps for crying out loud, and it also not as if you lose access if a game is not booked properly.
Mike Czaplinski 03-31-06, 07:05 AM	[snip] Personally I am even more surprised with this demand for reward points. For years, the RPGA did not hand out ANY rewards to players, and now all of a suddent people are complaining that because of database problems they are missing 1 or 2 cards which you can only use in RPGA campaigns. Why all this *****ing? :confused: Hmmm.... Lets see: The people who play the RPGA are very likely the most committed of RPG fans, and thus are more likely to have bought add-on books. The only way to use the cool stuff in these add-ons is to have Reward Cards. When WOTC doesn't keep accurate reportage of people's RPGA play history, they won't give people the Reward Cards that they have continually assured us are the coolest things evar (tm). WOTC, then, has done their job too well: they have set up a big demand for these cards. Why should it be suprising that people are angry when they can't get them? Personally, I think that the Reward Cards are a bad implementation of a good idea: prior to the RPGA Player Reward program, individual RPGA campaigns could give out special certs through the 'Table Winner' process. The RPGA did away with this process in favor of the Reward Cards, which they feel is somehow more fair. Except that, unlike winner's certs, you can go onto Ebay and buy Reward Cards if you're so inclined, whereas you actually had to earn the Winner's Certs by not just playing, but playing well (or at least being able to convince others at the table that you play well). Big improvement. Of course, in case of Mark of Heroes your character does not get the xp, gp and certs, but even that is not too problematic for me. I play these games for fun, and even consider the gp and xp an added bonus. The campaign even contains level bumps for crying out loud, and it also not as if you lose access if a game is not booked properly. To each their own. WOTC demands that RPGA members keep accurate paperwork, whether its filling out their paperwork at the table, or in the case of Living games, keeping your campaign diary up-to-date. Unfortunately, when WOTC decides not to keep their end of the bargain up, such as when they don't release MoH mods on any sort of predictable schedule, or have their much-vaunted online ordering system go down without warning for more than a week, That makes me mad. Or, it would if I had my previous level of involement in the RPGA. As I said in my first message: a combination of real-life demands and ongoing WOTC disinterest in their most loyal fans is quickly souring me on the RPGA. I'm just not ticked off enough to stop reading the forums. Yet. I'm sure WOTC is quaking in their boots at my potential dropping out. MikeC, but, really, they should be.
Madfox11 03-31-06, 10:11 AM	The only way to use the cool stuff in these add-ons is to have Reward Cards. No, it is not. You need it for a couple of core classes, and optional magical methods, but most other things can be unlocked through the regular channels (you can unlock one item per level with the exception of the 1st and select anything from a huge amount of sources). Personally, I think that the Reward Cards are a bad implementation of a good idea: prior to the RPGA Player Reward program, individual RPGA campaigns could give out special certs through the 'Table Winner' process. The RPGA did away with this process in favor of the Reward Cards, which they feel is somehow more fair. Except that, unlike winner's certs, you can go onto Ebay and buy Reward Cards if you're so inclined, whereas you actually had to earn the Winner's Certs by not just playing, but playing well (or at least being able to convince others at the table that you play well). RPGA never handed out winner certs (or at least not since 3rd edition) - it definitely never was allowed in LG. You are also one of the first persons I spoke with that thinks that naming a winner at a table is a good thing. Roleplaying is not a competative game, and making it so is not going to increase the enjoyment of it (au contrair). Winning also had nothing to do with playing well, but with being liked by the majority at the table. As for selling the stuff on E-bay, why is that bad? Unfortunately, when WOTC decides not to keep their end of the bargain up, such as when they don't release MoH mods on any sort of predictable schedule, or have their much-vaunted online ordering system go down without warning for more than a week, That makes me mad. Point at any document where RPGA promises to put out a certain amount of adventures per period for Mark of Heroes? For LG there is a maximum amount of slots, but even there nobody promises all those slots are going to be filled, simply because the organization cannot control the amount of good adventures they get and in what timeframe they get. One or two people are getting paid to run the RPGA. The rest of the work is still dependend on vollunteer work, and you cannot demand too much from vollunteers. As for the ordering system, I wouldn't go so far as that it was unwarned. Then again, perhaps I am more experienced with IT to realize then an announcement for an upgrade is a generic warning that for the comming weeks things might not work as planned. I have a distinct feeling that your expectations are simply too high. Like a friend of mine recently said: you get the bloody things for free, and being a member of the RPGA does not cost anything, so why do people expect the same service as when you actually pay for it?
Mike Czaplinski 03-31-06, 10:38 AM	[snip] RPGA never handed out winner certs (or at least not since 3rd edition) - it definitely never was allowed in LG. You are also one of the first persons I spoke with that thinks that naming a winner at a table is a good thing. Roleplaying is not a competative game, and making it so is not going to increase the enjoyment of it (au contrair). Winning also had nothing to do with playing well, but with being liked by the majority at the table. You obviously played another LG than I played. My first two years in LG (2001-2002) the Winner's Certs that give a one-shot +1 bonus to a d20 roll were all RPGA-official documents with an endorsement that they had no value and were the property of WOTC and the RPGA, not to be sold. This was well during 3E. As far as liking the old system: I can only suspect you didn't play in the Geoff region of whatever LG campaign you did play in, where it was often simply a group recogition of whoever at the table helped make it an enjoyable experience. If not, then I pity you (and it might explain why your recollections of LG are seemingly faulty, since LG was introduced at the same time as 3E). As for selling the stuff on E-bay, why is that bad? Because then an RPGA-sanctioned game then becomes a variation of a CCG with a few extra RP opportunities. Point at any document where RPGA promises to put out a certain amount of adventures per period for Mark of Heroes? For LG there is a maximum amount of slots, but even there nobody promises all those slots are going to be filled, simply because the organization cannot control the amount of good adventures they get and in what timeframe they get. One or two people are getting paid to run the RPGA. The rest of the work is still dependend on vollunteer work, and you cannot demand too much from vollunteers. There were month long stretches over the past year where there were precisely zero playable MoH mods due to the Extended Premier program, which often means that mods are unavailable to the general public for months at a time. There have only been 12 EMH mods, and only three DMH mods (well, four counting the one that expires in about 14 hours). If WOTC had at least put up regular monthly DM's Mark mods (like they keep promising), I couldn't fault them, because that would mean play opportunities for the campaign. But, they have shown themselves unable to even put up boilerplate generic 'place holder' adventures, and as a result (in the DC area), the trickle of playable mods has not boosted the campaign's presence in the local community. As for the ordering system, I wouldn't go so far as that it was unwarned. Then again, perhaps I am more experienced with IT to realize then an announcement for an upgrade is a generic warning that for the comming weeks things might not work as planned. I have a distinct feeling that your expectations are simply too high. Like a friend of mine recently said: you get the bloody things for free, and being a member of the RPGA does not cost anything, so why do people expect the same service as when you actually pay for it? I never said it was unwarned (though I was personally unaware of their previous announcement of imminent upgrades, I have to admit). I don't really wonder that it took them a week to do an upgrade: I also recall a previous 'upgrade' to the WOTC website that removed the search function, and their suggested replacement (using Google with a site: key) is sub-optimal. I have come to expect the absolute worst from WOTC where support of the RPGA is concerned. I am sure you will come back at me and say "Then stop playing if you hate it so much." I do not hate RPG's. I don't even hate the RPGA or WOTC. What I have is great dissatisfaction at how a large company treats arguably their most loyal customers as some sort of downside guarantee for their print runs of increasingly shoddy sourcebooks. Alas, this dissatisfaction will mostly likely only be addressed either by my ceasing to complain about it, or by simply stopping my association with this organization. Lord knows, if the RPGA was still a paid membership organiation (and I was one of the last paid-members back in '01), I'd've dropped out long long ago due to their ongoing neglect. I play because of the people I have met, both old friends whom I have reconnected with through going to RPGA events, as well as new friends and even sympathetic total strangers whom I've met when I've played RPGA events while travelling for business. Increasingly, it seems we enjoy RPGA games despite the hoops and hurdles that WOTC places in front of us, not because of the 'official sanction'. That doesn't bode well for the hobby or for the future of the RPGA, but that's fodder for another discussion somewhere else. MikeC
Madfox11 04-03-06, 05:23 AM	I have been playing LG since it premiered (in fact I have been a Triad member since before that time), and I have played in France, Germany, Netherlands, New-York, Switzerland, UK and Virginia and have run games for people from California, Florida and a couple of other regions. There never have been winner certs in Europe. In fact, I distinctly remember discussions about winner certs and the fact that the far majority of the Triads at the time disliked them intensely. I also remember discussions about con-organizers publishing their own, so called in name of the RPGA, which was not correct. I am not saying the ones you got were illegal or not. I simply don't know. I do know that me, and with me the far majority of players and Triad members I know intensely dislike winning certs for the reasons I mentioned Note that to state that your region somehow might be better in the player respect then any other region is incorrect. The players in Geoff on average are no different from other regions. In fact, my worst gaming experience ever was with players from the Washington DC area and so where a few of my best. Winning certs might work on small gaming days and home games where you are playing with a group of friends, or where you are gaming with a small group of people with strict social controll as a result. It really fails on big conventions, and that are the type of events people tend to visit when visiting other regions. I never said it was unwarned (though I was personally unaware of their previous announcement of imminent upgrades, I have to admit). You might want to reread your own posts, because you did say exactly that ;) Take a look at the following quote, which is what triggered my response: Unfortunately, when WOTC decides not to keep *their end of the bargain up*, such as when they don't release MoH mods on any sort of predictable schedule, or have their much-vaunted online ordering system go down *without warning* for more than a week, That makes me mad. The RPGA never promised you any kind of schedule for the release of Mark of Heroes scenarios as such there was no bargain to break. The RPGA did gave a warning for the upgrade, and they did so two weeks in advance. They thought it would take only 2 days, but they are not the first company to completely misjudge the time needed for the upgrade or to overlook some things while testing the new system. Now, does this mean that I think they could have done a better job with the Mark of Heroes campaign? Of course they could. It is just that accusing them of them breaking a bargain is a bit unfair in this particular case. Note that as a player I never expected a regular amount of scenarios. I use my own adventures for my home campaign, and use convention play to play with other friends who are only available on irregular times anyway. I don't want to be dependend on third parties when it comes to a regular schedules home campaign ;) So while I was somewhat irritated about the late anouncements of new scenarios, I was not irritated about the fact that there were very few new games in the last 6 months of 2005. I do agree that that hurt the game. It is just that I am not that ****** off about it - difference of expectations. Also note that I don't see any difference in services of the RPGA now or 6 years ago (and I am a member for 13 years now).
Mike Czaplinski 04-03-06, 10:37 AM	Madfox11: No amount of sophistry or resume waving will cover up the fact that you are plain wrong about LG never having Winner's Certs. That, to me, renders your opinions suspect on matters regarding MoH as well. Feel free to respond to this: I will not reply. MikeC
kenobi65 04-03-06, 12:33 PM	No amount of sophistry or resume waving will cover up the fact that you are plain wrong about LG never having Winner's Certs. Well, his more recent post mostly goes to great pains to explain how he, and everyone he knew, hated them. I started playing in the RPGA at GenCon Indy in 2001, and I can tell you that they had them there, for all RPGA games, because I won one for a Living City game, and my friend won one for the LG game we played there. At that time, they also were still doing table voting, and your RPGA "points" were based on the results of the votes at the tables you were at. The RPGA phased out table voting, and winners certs, at the end of 2002, in favor of the Player Rewards program. When I DMed at Winter Fantasy in January 2003, we had winners certs to give out to the players, but there was no voting; we (the DMs) were given 2 certs to give out to each table, and were told to give them out based on our own opinions -- one cert for best roleplaying, and one cert for best overall play. IIRC, the winners certs were no longer usable in RPGA play after around March or April of 2003; I still have a stack of them, that I never got around to using, that ride around in one of my character folders.
mickeyt66 04-03-06, 01:12 PM	What is frustrating is that the system does not work as they said it would. People pay lots of money to go to Winter Fantasy or GenCon, but when it takes weeks or months for the system to report things the way it is suppose to work, I find myself asking why go. The people who go to these cons are diehard. They want to have their characters on the cutting edge of xp and gold. And if it takes hundreds of dollars of airfare, hotel, meals and vacation time from work, then so be it. But don't let us down by not updating the database that keeps track of our characters. Reward points be damned, we play because we love our characters and want them to grow and mature. EMH-10 Desolate Endeavors played at GenCon SoCal is the most glaring ommision. I played it and judged it. No credit. Five months. Is that too much of an expectation to get things reported? Then go to a system like LG where you get the AR right after the game. Don't just use technology for technology sake. I am the Chief Technology Officer at my company and I know never to promise more than I can deliver to management or our clients. I rather set expectations lower and deliver more then higher and deliver less. The sheets were turned in to RPGA HQ, but I believe they are either sitting in some pile on someone's desk, in some bow in some warehouse (like the ark in Indiana Jones at the end of the movie) or is already recyled after being thrown away. It is not the technology. It is the follow through with the plan. If they have too much on their plates, cut down on the campaigns. Just do one, but do it well. Get more volunteers. Allow senior GMs to go back and enter results once the modules are in the database. Don't release modules not in the database. It all can be done. But there needs to be a will to do it. Going to the RPGA meetings and hearing how the rah-rah membership is up. New campaign this and that. That doesn't cut it. It is time to deliver what was promised. Mickey
kenobi65 04-03-06, 01:19 PM	EMH-10 Desolate Endeavors played at GenCon SoCal is the most glaring ommision. I played it and judged it. No credit. Five months. Is that too much of an expectation to get things reported? What's even more frightening about that is that the non-MoH stuff from GenCon SoCal got reported immediately. I played Living Force, Living Arcanis, and Living Greyhawk at SoCal, and when I got home on Sunday night, all of that was already in my event history. (Now, I acknowledge that entering the RPGA numbers for those campaigns is less complicated than entering the info for MoH, but still...)
Madfox11 04-04-06, 04:28 AM	Do you actually read my posts or do you stop reading at the point where it confirms your opinion? I said they never had winner certs in EUROPE!!!!!Though to be honest, I don't know what happened in all the smaller game days. No player ever used those certs on the bigger cons I attended though. I concurred that things might be different for the States, but the fact is that I am also correct about conventions providing winner certs that were not sanctioned by the RPGA. It caused quite a stir among the triads at the time. I am also correct that the vocal majority at the time among the triad was against them. The people who go to these cons are diehard. They want to have their characters on the cutting edge of xp and gold. And if it takes hundreds of dollars of airfare, hotel, meals and vacation time from work, then so be it. I go to conventions for the oppertunity to play games with people I never met before (or haven't seen in ages), the fun of four days of gaming, special events only run at conventions and in case of LG to play adventures I otherwise would have been unable to play. To each his own I guess...
grahamdrew 04-13-06, 10:41 PM	I didn't belive it at first, but the missing Mark of Heroes mod is now showing up on my player activity display. It even has the two digital certs I earned. Now if I can just get them to fix the digital certs for the other three Mark of Heroes mods I played, and enter the information for the LGR mod I played into the character tracker that should just about clear up the Winter Fantasy reporting issues. Andrew Beard
Frobi-Wan Kenobi 04-14-06, 12:06 AM	One of my slots of judging EMH-11 has shown up as well - maybe they are simply working slot by slot? The game that I have showing says Thursday - by chance did you play it on Thursday?
grahamdrew 04-14-06, 01:09 AM	One of my slots of judging EMH-11 has shown up as well - maybe they are simply working slot by slot? The game that I have showing says Thursday - by chance did you play it on Thursday? Nope, Saturday. Andrew Beard
Madfox11 04-14-06, 04:15 AM	The MoH Special has been registered for me now including the certs, but as others stated, the certs for the DMs Mark has not been added. What is worse, Incident has been removed. I also noted that the FULL text of the certs does appear on your character sheet when you go to the print character sheet section.
grahamdrew 04-14-06, 10:40 AM	The MoH Special has been registered for me now including the certs, but as others stated, the certs for the DMs Mark has not been added. What is worse, Incident has been removed. I also noted that the FULL text of the certs does appear on your character sheet when you go to the print character sheet section. Speaking of "full text", does anyone else's certs for EMH-11 get cut off at the end? I'm not even sure what the "Escaped Graywall" cert does since the game effects have been truncated. Andrew Beard
mickeyt66 04-14-06, 11:40 AM	It does show in my activity that I played the DM's Mark for Winter Fantasy. Unfortunately, it is not showing up on my character tracker like it used too. :( It does show that I judged 11 sessions of the DM's Mark for Winter Fantasy on Thursday. Glad to know that it is finally recognizing my skills. ;) Hopefully, everything gets fixed soon. Mickey
twoeyedjack 04-15-06, 11:28 PM	It does show in my activity that I played the DM's Mark for Winter Fantasy. Unfortunately, it is not showing up on my character tracker like it used too. :( Same here. I mysteriously lost 3000 EV, then EMH-12 disappeared from my character tracker, while all four WF MoH adventures appear in my player activity for points. I'm still missing EMH-11 in my character tracker. I'll give them more time, as it appears some things are being fixed at this time, which gives me hope.
D_karr 04-17-06, 05:16 PM	ARRRGH!!!!! Now XMH-3 The Unexpected Rift has completely disappeared from my report along with 12,200 EV. When will this madness end?
Herrbard 04-18-06, 08:38 PM	Yeah, it's nice to see that things are being worked on. Two of the EMH-11 tables that I judges are posted. I'm still waiting on one more (I judged two on thursday, but only one has shown up). Everything else seems to be there now.
twoeyedjack 04-20-06, 04:39 PM	Everything has posted from WF06 for me except story objects. Some of them sounded really cool, too... :(
grahamdrew 08-09-06, 06:14 PM	So, it's now 6 months later and I still don't have story objects for XMH-3, EMH-12, or DMH-8. I've submitted multiple play history correction forms, and never gotten anything back. Any chance of getting this resolved before Winter Fantasy 2007? Andrew Beard
Frobi-Wan Kenobi 08-14-06, 01:48 PM	What day did you play the DM's Mark and the Special?
grahamdrew 08-14-06, 06:37 PM	What day did you play the DM's Mark and the Special? DM's Mark on Friday, middle slot. Special on Saturday, last slot. Andrew Beard
Frobi-Wan Kenobi 08-15-06, 03:24 PM	If it makes you feel any better I didn't get my story object from the special either - actually the only people I know that did were at the expaned preimere locations. If they filled out both certs for the DM's Mark then you didn't get either. I believe that we sat at the same table for EMH-11 and I recall you asking for the insanity cert but the judge may have forgotten since everyone else was so releaved they didn't get it.
grahamdrew 08-15-06, 08:10 PM	If it makes you feel any better I didn't get my story object from the special either - actually the only people I know that did were at the expaned preimere locations. If they filled out both certs for the DM's Mark then you didn't get either. I believe that we sat at the same table for EMH-11 and I recall you asking for the insanity cert but the judge may have forgotten since everyone else was so releaved they didn't get it. I was actually expecting two objects from the special. I only earned one for the DM's Mark, but a friend from the same table earned the other one (I don't think his certs have shown up for that table either). Andrew Beard
grahamdrew 12-04-06, 09:48 AM	Another quick revival for what was a thoroughly dead topic. It's now 10 months later, and all four mods including the one that had the story objects) are now missing from my character tracker. Because they disappeared after the 10th level bump, this has dropped my character to 8th level even though it show that I haven't played in well over a year. But that's been the situation for a while. The new bit is that supposedly the MoH finale will play at Winter Fantasy 2007 (good). Without a level bump (for me, bad). I would really REALLY like to get this fixed up before the campaign finale. This tracking system is just crazy. I've actually been PENALIZED for playing the WF 2006 mods (if I hadn't, I'd be at 10th level now instead of 8th). Andrew Beard RPGA# 9861726
Senhouse 12-17-06, 03:58 PM	Also, my character has been marked as dead for no reason - anyone know how to get this fixed? Chris Senhouse Herald 41024863
grahamdrew 12-21-06, 03:31 PM	Surprisingly enough I took a look at the character tracker today and all my mods have reappeared! I'm now back at 10th level since the "drop" post-level kick is now offset. Granted, only one of the 4 from Winter Fantasy has the Story Objects listed correctly, but it's enough to get me back up and running for the recently-announced finale at Winter Fantasy. Thanks to whoever updated the database. Andrew Beard
Frobi-Wan Kenobi 12-21-06, 08:02 PM	I can't believe that my PC made it to 13th level. Too bad I'm still missing 2 of the DM's Marks (both from GenCon Indys). Rob
Sieylianna 12-21-06, 08:44 PM	I'm still waiting for my Origins events to show up. Ed