"A 'Forged Apart" campaign card help [Archive] - Wizards Community

"A 'Forged Apart" campaign card help [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DarthGM
06-26-06, 01:49 PM Greetings!

I'm trying to create a Psi-Forged using the "A 'Forged Apart" Creation Card, and the wording confuses me. It says it "unlocks all nonrestricted classes, skills, feats, powers, prestige classes, and psionic items in the EPH". In the MoHCS, it basically lists everything from the EPH as "Restricted".

Simply, my question is: Does "A 'Forged Apart" give me access to the EPH for character creation? Can I make a 7th SoulKnife/Pyrokineticist for Origins this week with it?

:confused:
Herrbard
06-27-06, 12:28 AM Short answer: yes.

When you use the card, it unlocks those classes and prestige classes, as well as the powers, feats, items, etc. The only things that would stay restricted for you are the Githyanki Silver Sword (item), metamorphosis and greater metamorphosis (powers). The rest of the EPH is fair game (for whatever class you have taken, of course).
indel2001
06-27-06, 10:37 PM ditto what Herrbard said. There is a thread titlee Psiforged Traits (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=600330) with further discussion on the topic. Apparently, the card was poorly worded but it does open access to the XPH classes.

At the risk of repeating my post on the Psiforged Thread, don't follow the example feats given for the psiforged psychic warrior in the the Magic of Ebberon book. It has the Mithral Body feat, which it could not take if the Psiforged Body is its 1st level body feat. People suspect the Psiforged race was originally conceived has having the psiforged body as an innate quality as opposed to a Body Feat, and the editors didn't make the necessary change in the example psychic warrior.

Could you share your proposed Feat build for your psiforged character? I'm looking to build one too. I particularly like the Psionic Weapon, Psionic Body, Psionic Meditation, and Psychic Rush (from Magic) combination for the psychic warrior class.

Good luck at Origins with that 7th SoulKnife/Pyrokineticist!
boolean
06-29-06, 01:01 AM The weird thing? There's no reason you have to take the Psiforged Body feat.

A 'Forged Apart unlocks the Psiforged Body feat, and unlocks a bunch of psionic material from the XPH. It doesn't require you to take the feat, and the feat is not a prerequisite for taking psionic classes or feats.
tilloch
07-01-06, 11:21 AM Even wierder, the text of the description of the Psiforged race in MOE says that, "In truth, Psiforged are simply warforged who have taken the Psiforged Body feat (see page 51) at 1st level." Then both of the examples of Psiforged that they give later in the same section do not have the Psiforged Body feat. I would expect that the original intent was for Psiforged to have the feat, but that kills Adamantine Body and Mithril Body for Psychic Warriors. That's non-good.

Tilloch
indel2001
07-01-06, 08:05 PM Boolean and Tilloch:

You've both run into the same confusing text that has befuddeled others.

A 'Forged Apart unlocks the Psiforged Body feat, and unlocks a bunch of psionic material from the XPH. It doesn't require you to take the feat, and the feat is not a prerequisite for taking psionic classes or feats.

Actually, I think it does require you to take the feat since I don't see psionic classes or feats allowed for races other than Kalashatar. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but this card allows you to play a psionic warforged BY unlocking the feat, which I'm presuming is otherwise restricted. As per the XE campaign standards, psionic classes MUST be unlocked by a campaign allowance. In this case, if you want to play a psionic warforged, then you must use the A FORGED APART campaign card.

But to pick up your other idea, does this mean the character MUST take the feat or does the card bequeth the feat for free? I suspect the answer is you need to add the feat to the character. Are there any Campaign Cards that give you a free feat? I don't recall off hand and suspect they don't.

Then both of the examples of Psiforged that they give later in the same section do not have the Psiforged Body feat. I would expect that the original intent was for Psiforged to have the feat, but that kills Adamantine Body and Mithril Body for Psychic Warriors. That's non-good.

Correct. As I stated previously, don't follow the examples given in the book. We suspect the book's examples are in error. It seems if you take the Psiforged Body feat than you are part of the Psiforged sub-race but a psionic warforged without the feat (like in a home campaign) would not be Psiforged.
haferka
07-03-06, 01:40 PM Boolean and Tilloch:
As I stated previously, don't follow the examples given in the book. We suspect the book's examples are in error. It seems if you take the Psiforged Body feat than you are part of the Psiforged sub-race but a psionic warforged without the feat (like in a home campaign) would not be Psiforged.

Thats fine.. all you need for MoH is access to the psionic classes... Which the card gives you, regardess as to wheather you actually take the Psiforged Feat...
indel2001
07-03-06, 08:44 PM haferka:

all you need for MoH is access to the psionic classes... Which the card gives you, regardess as to wheather you actually take the Psiforged Feat...

I see what you are saying but I think that access requires your character to be "psiforged," which in turn requires the Psiforged Body feat. The card reads -

Regardless of whether you were the first of your kind to step out of the Mournland or one of the later ‘forged created by Merrix d’Cannith in Sharn, you are undeniably psiforged.

Benefit: This card unlocks the psiforged races (or more precisely, the Psiforged Body feat) from Magic of Eberron. It also unlocks all nonrestricted classes, skills, feats, powers, prestige classes, and psionic items from the Expanded Psionics Handbook. See the Mark of Heroes Campaign Standards for a list of campaign restricted psionic rules items.

I realize the connection between access to the EPH stuff and the Psiforged Body feat is only implied. It doesn't explicity state you need to take the Body feat, only that it is unlocked and that access to other EPH stuff is granted. But...the card DOES state "Regardless of whether you were the first...you are undeniably psiforged." Being Psiforged requires the Psiforged Body feat; therefore the psionic access via this card is only available to warforged who take the Psiforged Body Feat. At least, that's how I'm interpreting the card.

I'm not RPGA so I can understand and respect our difference of opinion on the card. Hopefully, they'll get around to errata-ing this card and the Magic of Eberron book so that the Psiforged race is sufficiently clarified.
rhoan_01
07-18-06, 08:15 AM Disclaimer: I don't have access to the pertinent rulebooks in front of me, and have been in the RPGA for a very short time, so keep that in mind as I make this argument.

As far as the card's text, it reads to me that the card unlocks the Psiforged Body feat seperately from the EPH content, so you don't have to be 'forged to use things from the book.

As for the feat itself, if I recall correctly the feat works similarly to the Wild Talent feat from the EPH, i.e. it gives 'forged a power point pool and the ability to become psionically focused, making them a psionic character (or psiforged).

If that's correct, then here's what I also believe is true:

*A 'forged with the Psionic Body feat becomes a psiforged, which is a psionic race. That gives a psiforged rogue access to feats like Psionic Dodge, or a psiforged Wizard access to Psionic Body.

*A warforged with levels in a psionic class is considered a psionic character, because they have a power point pool and can become psionically focused. However, they are not considered a psiforged, just a psionic warforged, because they don't possess the psiforged's ability to store points like a cognizance crystal. It also means a warforged psy warrior can take Adamantine Body, since it doesn't need the Psiforged feat to take the class. It's a slim difference, but one just the same.

The benefit of Psiforged as a sub-race is that they're more adept at using psionics, since they were made for it. Anyway, that's my two cents, mostly from discussions we've had about Wild Talent since the EPH came out.
Frobi-Wan Kenobi
07-18-06, 01:05 PM XenEx was clarified that you must take the Psi-forged body feat in order to take levels in a psionic class. I would expect the same for MoH.
indel2001
07-20-06, 10:25 PM Frobi-Wan wrote - XenEx was clarified that you must take the Psi-forged body feat in order to take levels in a psionic class. I would expect the same for MoH.

That is correct. The psionic classes are restricted in MOH UNLESS you have a card that unlocks them.

Rhoan-01's summation is essentially correct as well, but no one was contesting those ideas.

Here is the key contention to bear in mind - Does the A FORGED APART card require you to take the Psiforged Feat to access the EPH classes or can you use the card to access the EPH classes without the Psiforged feat?

If the former, then a psiforged is unable to take any other Body Feats because it's lost the 1st level slot for it.

If the latter, then you could make a warforged with Mithral Body feat (or other body feats) that then takes EPH classes. It just isn't PSIFORGED.

If Frodo-Wan is correct that MOH will follow XenEx then the answer is the former: you must take the Psiforged Feat to access the EPH classes. I haven't seen the XenEx clarification yet nor one for MOH.

Thanks to all for the information.
Frobi-Wan Kenobi
07-21-06, 12:24 PM If [Frodi]-Wan is correct that MOH will follow XenEx then the answer is the former: you must take the Psiforged Feat to access the EPH classes. I haven't seen the XenEx clarification yet nor one for MOH.

It's in the Character Tracker.

Registering Your Character
Only one active character per faction can be created for Xen'drik Expeditions

Naming your character: It’s a good idea to review the Eberron Campaign Setting before naming your character, as some races and peoples of Eberron have particular naming conventions.
For characters of noble blood, or who are members of a dragonmarked house, you’ll have to leave off the accent, and the database rules don’t allow them. Type them in the form of “Juren d Cannith” or Mesnit ir Tyrns.” Keep in mind that you need to be of the appropriate faction (Blackwheel Company) or have the right Campaign Card to be a member of a dragonmarked house, and you must spend your 1st-level expansion slot to have a noble title.

CampaignCards: If you select a starting Campaign Card, you must bring that Campaign Card to your games for your character to be legal.
In most cases, a card unlocks a race or class choice, and you select “ACCORDING TO CREATION CARD” for the appropriate choice. Sometimes a card will have multiple choices. This is the case when either a card allows for multiple class options (like “Off the Beaten Path”), race options (like the “Heir” promo cards that unlock dragonmarked bloodlines) or if a card unlocks races and classes (like “People of Mind, Matter, and Radiance” that unlock kalashtar and psionic classes), select the appropriate choice and then select “ACCORDING TO CREATION CARD” in the appropriate race and class selection.
For example, if you have the “A ‘Forged Apart” card, and want to play a psiforged ardent, select the option “A ‘Forged Apart – Ardent” and “ACCORDING TO CREATION CARD” in both the race and class field. Just keep in mind that playing an ardent or other psionic classes from Complete Psionic costs your 1st- and 2nd-level expansion slot, and that psiforged characters must take the Psionic Body feat at first level.
indel2001
07-21-06, 02:16 PM Thanks Frobi-Wan. You rock.

I didn't realize the character tracker was up yet. Looks like I need to go register my Psiforged Psychic Warrior.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DarthGM 06-26-06, 01:49 PM	Greetings! I'm trying to create a Psi-Forged using the "A 'Forged Apart" Creation Card, and the wording confuses me. It says it "unlocks all nonrestricted classes, skills, feats, powers, prestige classes, and psionic items in the EPH". In the MoHCS, it basically lists everything from the EPH as "Restricted". Simply, my question is: Does "A 'Forged Apart" give me access to the EPH for character creation? Can I make a 7th SoulKnife/Pyrokineticist for Origins this week with it? :confused:
Herrbard 06-27-06, 12:28 AM	Short answer: yes. When you use the card, it unlocks those classes and prestige classes, as well as the powers, feats, items, etc. The only things that would stay restricted for you are the Githyanki Silver Sword (item), metamorphosis and greater metamorphosis (powers). The rest of the EPH is fair game (for whatever class you have taken, of course).
indel2001 06-27-06, 10:37 PM	ditto what Herrbard said. There is a thread titlee Psiforged Traits (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=600330) with further discussion on the topic. Apparently, the card was poorly worded but it does open access to the XPH classes. At the risk of repeating my post on the Psiforged Thread, don't follow the example feats given for the psiforged psychic warrior in the the Magic of Ebberon book. It has the Mithral Body feat, which it could not take if the Psiforged Body is its 1st level body feat. People suspect the Psiforged race was originally conceived has having the psiforged body as an innate quality as opposed to a Body Feat, and the editors didn't make the necessary change in the example psychic warrior. Could you share your proposed Feat build for your psiforged character? I'm looking to build one too. I particularly like the Psionic Weapon, Psionic Body, Psionic Meditation, and Psychic Rush (from Magic) combination for the psychic warrior class. Good luck at Origins with that 7th SoulKnife/Pyrokineticist!
boolean 06-29-06, 01:01 AM	The weird thing? There's no reason you have to take the Psiforged Body feat. A 'Forged Apart unlocks the Psiforged Body feat, and unlocks a bunch of psionic material from the XPH. It doesn't require you to take the feat, and the feat is not a prerequisite for taking psionic classes or feats.
tilloch 07-01-06, 11:21 AM	Even wierder, the text of the description of the Psiforged race in MOE says that, "In truth, Psiforged are simply warforged who have taken the Psiforged Body feat (see page 51) at 1st level." Then both of the examples of Psiforged that they give later in the same section do not have the Psiforged Body feat. I would expect that the original intent was for Psiforged to have the feat, but that kills Adamantine Body and Mithril Body for Psychic Warriors. That's non-good. Tilloch
indel2001 07-01-06, 08:05 PM	Boolean and Tilloch: You've both run into the same confusing text that has befuddeled others. A 'Forged Apart unlocks the Psiforged Body feat, and unlocks a bunch of psionic material from the XPH. It doesn't require you to take the feat, and the feat is not a prerequisite for taking psionic classes or feats. Actually, I think it does require you to take the feat since I don't see psionic classes or feats allowed for races other than Kalashatar. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but this card allows you to play a psionic warforged BY unlocking the feat, which I'm presuming is otherwise restricted. As per the XE campaign standards, psionic classes MUST be unlocked by a campaign allowance. In this case, if you want to play a psionic warforged, then you must use the A FORGED APART campaign card. But to pick up your other idea, does this mean the character MUST take the feat or does the card bequeth the feat for free? I suspect the answer is you need to add the feat to the character. Are there any Campaign Cards that give you a free feat? I don't recall off hand and suspect they don't. Then both of the examples of Psiforged that they give later in the same section do not have the Psiforged Body feat. I would expect that the original intent was for Psiforged to have the feat, but that kills Adamantine Body and Mithril Body for Psychic Warriors. That's non-good. Correct. As I stated previously, don't follow the examples given in the book. We suspect the book's examples are in error. It seems if you take the Psiforged Body feat than you are part of the Psiforged sub-race but a psionic warforged without the feat (like in a home campaign) would not be Psiforged.
haferka 07-03-06, 01:40 PM	Boolean and Tilloch: As I stated previously, don't follow the examples given in the book. We suspect the book's examples are in error. It seems if you take the Psiforged Body feat than you are part of the Psiforged sub-race but a psionic warforged without the feat (like in a home campaign) would not be Psiforged. Thats fine.. all you need for MoH is access to the psionic classes... Which the card gives you, regardess as to wheather you actually take the Psiforged Feat...
indel2001 07-03-06, 08:44 PM	haferka: all you need for MoH is access to the psionic classes... Which the card gives you, regardess as to wheather you actually take the Psiforged Feat... I see what you are saying but I think that access requires your character to be "psiforged," which in turn requires the Psiforged Body feat. The card reads - Regardless of whether you were the first of your kind to step out of the Mournland or one of the later ‘forged created by Merrix d’Cannith in Sharn, you are undeniably psiforged. Benefit: This card unlocks the psiforged races (or more precisely, the Psiforged Body feat) from Magic of Eberron. It also unlocks all nonrestricted classes, skills, feats, powers, prestige classes, and psionic items from the Expanded Psionics Handbook. See the Mark of Heroes Campaign Standards for a list of campaign restricted psionic rules items. I realize the connection between access to the EPH stuff and the Psiforged Body feat is only implied. It doesn't explicity state you need to take the Body feat, only that it is unlocked and that access to other EPH stuff is granted. But...the card DOES state "Regardless of whether you were the first...you are undeniably psiforged." Being Psiforged requires the Psiforged Body feat; therefore the psionic access via this card is only available to warforged who take the Psiforged Body Feat. At least, that's how I'm interpreting the card. I'm not RPGA so I can understand and respect our difference of opinion on the card. Hopefully, they'll get around to errata-ing this card and the Magic of Eberron book so that the Psiforged race is sufficiently clarified.
rhoan_01 07-18-06, 08:15 AM	Disclaimer: I don't have access to the pertinent rulebooks in front of me, and have been in the RPGA for a very short time, so keep that in mind as I make this argument. As far as the card's text, it reads to me that the card unlocks the Psiforged Body feat seperately from the EPH content, so you don't have to be 'forged to use things from the book. As for the feat itself, if I recall correctly the feat works similarly to the Wild Talent feat from the EPH, i.e. it gives 'forged a power point pool and the ability to become psionically focused, making them a psionic character (or psiforged). If that's correct, then here's what I also believe is true: A 'forged with the Psionic Body feat becomes a psiforged, which is a psionic race. That gives a psiforged rogue access to feats like Psionic Dodge, or a psiforged Wizard access to Psionic Body. A warforged with levels in a psionic class is considered a psionic character, because they have a power point pool and can become psionically focused. However, they are not considered a psiforged, just a psionic warforged, because they don't possess the psiforged's ability to store points like a cognizance crystal. It also means a warforged psy warrior can take Adamantine Body, since it doesn't need the Psiforged feat to take the class. It's a slim difference, but one just the same. The benefit of Psiforged as a sub-race is that they're more adept at using psionics, since they were made for it. Anyway, that's my two cents, mostly from discussions we've had about Wild Talent since the EPH came out.
Frobi-Wan Kenobi 07-18-06, 01:05 PM	XenEx was clarified that you must take the Psi-forged body feat in order to take levels in a psionic class. I would expect the same for MoH.
indel2001 07-20-06, 10:25 PM	Frobi-Wan wrote - XenEx was clarified that you must take the Psi-forged body feat in order to take levels in a psionic class. I would expect the same for MoH. That is correct. The psionic classes are restricted in MOH UNLESS you have a card that unlocks them. Rhoan-01's summation is essentially correct as well, but no one was contesting those ideas. Here is the key contention to bear in mind - Does the A FORGED APART card require you to take the Psiforged Feat to access the EPH classes or can you use the card to access the EPH classes without the Psiforged feat? If the former, then a psiforged is unable to take any other Body Feats because it's lost the 1st level slot for it. If the latter, then you could make a warforged with Mithral Body feat (or other body feats) that then takes EPH classes. It just isn't PSIFORGED. If Frodo-Wan is correct that MOH will follow XenEx then the answer is the former: you must take the Psiforged Feat to access the EPH classes. I haven't seen the XenEx clarification yet nor one for MOH. Thanks to all for the information.
Frobi-Wan Kenobi 07-21-06, 12:24 PM	If [Frodi]-Wan is correct that MOH will follow XenEx then the answer is the former: you must take the Psiforged Feat to access the EPH classes. I haven't seen the XenEx clarification yet nor one for MOH. It's in the Character Tracker. Registering Your Character Only one active character per faction can be created for Xen'drik Expeditions Naming your character: It’s a good idea to review the Eberron Campaign Setting before naming your character, as some races and peoples of Eberron have particular naming conventions. For characters of noble blood, or who are members of a dragonmarked house, you’ll have to leave off the accent, and the database rules don’t allow them. Type them in the form of “Juren d Cannith” or Mesnit ir Tyrns.” Keep in mind that you need to be of the appropriate faction (Blackwheel Company) or have the right Campaign Card to be a member of a dragonmarked house, and you must spend your 1st-level expansion slot to have a noble title. CampaignCards: If you select a starting Campaign Card, you must bring that Campaign Card to your games for your character to be legal. In most cases, a card unlocks a race or class choice, and you select “ACCORDING TO CREATION CARD” for the appropriate choice. Sometimes a card will have multiple choices. This is the case when either a card allows for multiple class options (like “Off the Beaten Path”), race options (like the “Heir” promo cards that unlock dragonmarked bloodlines) or if a card unlocks races and classes (like “People of Mind, Matter, and Radiance” that unlock kalashtar and psionic classes), select the appropriate choice and then select “ACCORDING TO CREATION CARD” in the appropriate race and class selection. For example, if you have the “A ‘Forged Apart” card, and want to play a psiforged ardent, select the option “A ‘Forged Apart – Ardent” and “ACCORDING TO CREATION CARD” in both the race and class field. Just keep in mind that playing an ardent or other psionic classes from Complete Psionic costs your 1st- and 2nd-level expansion slot, and that psiforged characters must take the Psionic Body feat at first level.
indel2001 07-21-06, 02:16 PM	Thanks Frobi-Wan. You rock. I didn't realize the character tracker was up yet. Looks like I need to go register my Psiforged Psychic Warrior.