The Help Keith Baker Thread [Archive] - Wizards Community

The Help Keith Baker Thread [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Hellcow
06-25-05, 12:09 AM Well, we've got the Ask Keith Baker thread on the general Eberron board where you get to ask me questions... so this is where I get to ask YOU questions! I've just started playing in a Mark of Heroes campaign, and I've already run into something I can't find an answer to. So if anyone knows the official answer, it would be much appreciated.

MoH avoids the artificer's craft reserve and use of drain essence. But what about the infusion spell storing item, which requires a small expenditure of experience? Can the infusion be used without paying the price? Or can it not be used in an RPGA campaign?

Thanks!
Randall Montgomery
06-25-05, 12:57 AM Hellcow,

While I'm not well versed in artificer infusions, the problem sounds a lot like one I posted to the boards a while ago about the Signature Weapon ability from the Kensai class, where the kensai can give enhancement bonuses to his weapon by spending experience points. Unfortunantly for us both, the last I heard on the subject was that it was still being looked into, and would be clarified in a future Dispel Confusion. Personally, my thinking is that it should work similar to how item creation is done, by converting XP to GP in the standard 1 to 5 ratio with an extra 5% or so added on, just in case anyone is interested in my opinion :) . With any luck, your involvement might help grease the wheels and get us a difinitive ruling on how XP spending works in MoH.
Hellcow
06-25-05, 12:35 PM the problem sounds a lot like one I posted to the boards a while ago about the Signature Weapon ability from the Kensai class, where the kensai can give enhancement bonuses to his weapon by spending experience points.
The problem is that the Kensai's ability is permanent - while spell storing item is temporary. You could make the artificer pay with it using cash on hand, I suppose.

How does the RPGA handle other spells with XP components? Wish, Atone, etc? Is there a general ruling?
DoveArrow
06-26-05, 02:28 AM MoH avoids the artificer's craft reserve and use of drain essence. But what about the infusion spell storing item, which requires a small expenditure of experience? Can the infusion be used without paying the price? Or can it not be used in an RPGA campaign?

I don't know that they have any information out on this one yet, Keith, so the best I can do is make some educated guesses based on information I extrapolated from the XP to gp conversion rules they have for the Craft Reserve. At any rate, here would be my ruling:

If you want to equip your character with a spell storing item at the beginning of the game, I would say that you spend 5 times the XP amount in gold pieces to 'purchase' the item. So for example, if you were playing a 1st level artificer and you wanted to equip your character with a spell storing item with the spell identify cast into it, it would cost you 5 gp to purchase. For creating the item in game, I would assume that you just use the XP the characters gain during the adventure to create the item. The reason for this is simply because it doesn't look like they have rules for how spells with XP costs work in MoH yet.

How does the RPGA handle other spells with XP components? Wish, Atone, etc? Is there a general ruling?

You may want to take a look at page 38 of the Living Greyhawk Campaign Standards document. While it's not official MoH rules, it does provide an explanation for how they've dealt with this issue in the past.
lutherreed
06-26-05, 10:10 AM How does the RPGA handle other spells with XP components? Wish, Atone, etc? Is there a general ruling?

Living Campaigns handle such things differently than D&D Campaigns. So refering to Living Greyhawk will do you no good. In D&D Campaigns experiance loss is tracked on the reporting form at the end of the session. This is also true of any permanent gp loss (such as from raise dead).
DoveArrow
06-26-05, 12:05 PM Living Campaigns handle such things differently than D&D Campaigns. So refering to Living Greyhawk will do you no good. In D&D Campaigns experiance loss is tracked on the reporting form at the end of the session. This is also true of any permanent gp loss (such as from raise dead).

Like I said, I was just giving it as an example of how they've dealt with the issue in other situations. I didn't realize that they're supposed to track the XP and gold because they didn't when I went to Gen Con in Anaheim and I only just noticed the spaces for it on my character tracker because of your comment. In any case, here's my question: I'm guessing the XP isn't used to level, so I'm therefore guessing that it's to be used solely for expenditures on spells and creating magic items in game. I'm also assuming the same is true for any gold piece gain and loss. Is this a correct assumption, or is there another mechanic at work for XP and gp that I'm not aware of? Meanwhile, where is this information, because it's not in the MoH Campaign Standards document that I can find. If it is, let me know what page number because that would be good information to know.
Frobi-Wan Kenobi
06-26-05, 01:22 PM Check out the Gaining Levels section of the 1.2 Campaign Standards page 9

Players in a D&D campaign have only a very rough idea how much XP they have since the actual number is kept hidden in WotC's RPGA database
DoveArrow
06-26-05, 01:59 PM Well then here's another question: If you don't know how much XP you have, then how do you know if you have enough to cast spell storing item? Can you go into XP debt, so to speak? (That is the third RPGA session where my cleric has had to cast miracle to raise the whole party. I'm not sure how much XP I had before, but I'm sure I must be at least 10,000 in the hole. At this rate, I'm never going to level. :P ) Also, are they supposed to tell you how much gold you have?
IceV2
07-01-05, 01:18 PM You actually can use any infusion witch have an associated XP cost. The XP lost is reported by the GM. In that case your character will get less XP for the adventure.
Hellcow
07-01-05, 01:48 PM What about spells with monetary components - like Identify, which requires a 100 gp pearl? Is that considered expendible, and thus increased to 500 gp?
Jesse Heinig
07-01-05, 04:51 PM My guess would be that you spend the 100 gp out of your coin on hand. Anything you didn't use on your allocation of gear goes into the CoH pool, as I recall.

What about spells with monetary components - like Identify, which requires a 100 gp pearl? Is that considered expendible, and thus increased to 500 gp?
DoveArrow
07-01-05, 05:30 PM What about spells with monetary components - like Identify, which requires a 100 gp pearl? Is that considered expendible, and thus increased to 500 gp?

Yes, because it is a consumable item, it costs five times its regular price to purchase. I don't think they listed it in the Campaign Standards document mainly because it's not part of the equipment list in the Player's Handbok.

My guess would be that you spend the 100 gp out of your coin on hand. Anything you didn't use on your allocation of gear goes into the CoH pool, as I recall.

According to the Campaign Standards, you can't change your equipment list in game. Now granted, the rules aren't exactly clear on whether spell components are considered equipment or not, but I'd say that they are.

Now my question is, for purposes of CoH, is that pearl you purchased as a spell component worth the Player's Handbook price of 100 gp, or is it worth the 500 gp that you spent to purchase it? My feeling is it's probably worth the Player's Handbook price, but I'm not sure.
IceV2
07-01-05, 09:23 PM What about spells with monetary components - like Identify, which requires a 100 gp pearl? Is that considered expendible, and thus increased to 500 gp?

EVERY consumable material cost five times the standart value because you get the object again in the next adventure.

Like the XP you can expend the cost (even if you don't have the GP in your CoH) and the GM will report your expenses (if any). Renember that you can't expend more than your GP limit.

According to the Campaign Standards, you can't change your equipment list in game. Now granted, the rules aren't exactly clear on whether spell components are considered equipment or not, but I'd say that they are.

Wrong. See the page 9 of the Campaign Standart:

In the Gaining Levels section: "...You can retool all but (...): race, the classes you have taken, your creation card, and your expansion list..."

In the Equipping Characters section: "You can reequip your characters betwen events. You can retool your equipment list, or you can keep what you had before."

The spell components are part of the equipment. That's right.
DoveArrow
07-02-05, 02:27 AM Wrong. See the page 9 of the Campaign Standart:

Not wrong. I read the page. It says that consumable items typically cost five times their published cost. It does not say anywhere specifically that spell components are considered consumable items. My point was that while it doesn't say that specifically, the document implies that spell components are considered consumable items, since they are consumed in the casting of the spell. Sorry if I didn't make that clearer. Meanwhile, sorry if the above post sounds a little emotionally charged. My honor was at stake, darnit, and I had to defend my honor. ;)
IceV2
07-02-05, 08:43 AM It does not say anywhere specifically that spell components are considered consumable items.

Right, is a logical conclusion: You consume the item every time that you cast the spell.
Niaslos FireCrow
07-02-05, 12:22 PM I always thought you had two choices when dealing with this: paying the prics x5 to have it in your equipment list at each session (at least until you change it) or paying it in-game with your CoH at the normal cost. Was I wrong?
DoveArrow
07-02-05, 12:37 PM I always thought you had two choices when dealing with this: paying the prics x5 to have it in your equipment list at each session (at least until you change it) or paying it in-game with your CoH at the normal cost. Was I wrong?

As far as I can tell, you are wrong, unfortunately. The Campaign Standards document says on page nine that you're allowed to retool your character between sessions. However, once you've entered a session at an event, you cannot change your equipment list for the rest of that event. I'm guessing, of course, that they exclude treasure items that you pick up during a session (the item goes away at the end of the session, but for the moment it's on your equipment list). However, my feeling is, if you could just purchase a potion at any time, why would you ever equip your character with it? Just buy one while you're still in town somewhere and get an 80% discount. Of course, then that begs the question, what is the coin on hand for? Bribing people? Buying ale and wh... well let's be tasteful. Anyway, it's a good question.
Hellcow
07-07-05, 11:16 PM OK, Help Keith Baker issue #2: Campaign Cards. I have a complete extra set of Set 1 and Set 3, but completely missed out on Set 2 - and needless to say, if it's anything to do with Eberron, I want it! So, I'm looking to trade (and I'm happy to autograph any cards I trade). If you have any interest in such a thing, private message me!
CyberGaston
07-08-05, 01:24 AM I sent you a PM. :D
TimRat
07-08-05, 09:08 PM hey keith and all. i sent all these questions on to the higher ups and they are looking into them as we speak.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Hellcow 06-25-05, 12:09 AM	Well, we've got the Ask Keith Baker thread on the general Eberron board where you get to ask me questions... so this is where I get to ask YOU questions! I've just started playing in a Mark of Heroes campaign, and I've already run into something I can't find an answer to. So if anyone knows the official answer, it would be much appreciated. MoH avoids the artificer's craft reserve and use of drain essence. But what about the infusion spell storing item, which requires a small expenditure of experience? Can the infusion be used without paying the price? Or can it not be used in an RPGA campaign? Thanks!
Randall Montgomery 06-25-05, 12:57 AM	Hellcow, While I'm not well versed in artificer infusions, the problem sounds a lot like one I posted to the boards a while ago about the Signature Weapon ability from the Kensai class, where the kensai can give enhancement bonuses to his weapon by spending experience points. Unfortunantly for us both, the last I heard on the subject was that it was still being looked into, and would be clarified in a future Dispel Confusion. Personally, my thinking is that it should work similar to how item creation is done, by converting XP to GP in the standard 1 to 5 ratio with an extra 5% or so added on, just in case anyone is interested in my opinion :) . With any luck, your involvement might help grease the wheels and get us a difinitive ruling on how XP spending works in MoH.
Hellcow 06-25-05, 12:35 PM	the problem sounds a lot like one I posted to the boards a while ago about the Signature Weapon ability from the Kensai class, where the kensai can give enhancement bonuses to his weapon by spending experience points. The problem is that the Kensai's ability is permanent - while spell storing item is temporary. You could make the artificer pay with it using cash on hand, I suppose. How does the RPGA handle other spells with XP components? Wish, Atone, etc? Is there a general ruling?
DoveArrow 06-26-05, 02:28 AM	MoH avoids the artificer's craft reserve and use of drain essence. But what about the infusion spell storing item, which requires a small expenditure of experience? Can the infusion be used without paying the price? Or can it not be used in an RPGA campaign? I don't know that they have any information out on this one yet, Keith, so the best I can do is make some educated guesses based on information I extrapolated from the XP to gp conversion rules they have for the Craft Reserve. At any rate, here would be my ruling: If you want to equip your character with a spell storing item at the beginning of the game, I would say that you spend 5 times the XP amount in gold pieces to 'purchase' the item. So for example, if you were playing a 1st level artificer and you wanted to equip your character with a spell storing item with the spell identify cast into it, it would cost you 5 gp to purchase. For creating the item in game, I would assume that you just use the XP the characters gain during the adventure to create the item. The reason for this is simply because it doesn't look like they have rules for how spells with XP costs work in MoH yet. How does the RPGA handle other spells with XP components? Wish, Atone, etc? Is there a general ruling? You may want to take a look at page 38 of the Living Greyhawk Campaign Standards document. While it's not official MoH rules, it does provide an explanation for how they've dealt with this issue in the past.
lutherreed 06-26-05, 10:10 AM	How does the RPGA handle other spells with XP components? Wish, Atone, etc? Is there a general ruling? Living Campaigns handle such things differently than D&D Campaigns. So refering to Living Greyhawk will do you no good. In D&D Campaigns experiance loss is tracked on the reporting form at the end of the session. This is also true of any permanent gp loss (such as from raise dead).
DoveArrow 06-26-05, 12:05 PM	Living Campaigns handle such things differently than D&D Campaigns. So refering to Living Greyhawk will do you no good. In D&D Campaigns experiance loss is tracked on the reporting form at the end of the session. This is also true of any permanent gp loss (such as from raise dead). Like I said, I was just giving it as an example of how they've dealt with the issue in other situations. I didn't realize that they're supposed to track the XP and gold because they didn't when I went to Gen Con in Anaheim and I only just noticed the spaces for it on my character tracker because of your comment. In any case, here's my question: I'm guessing the XP isn't used to level, so I'm therefore guessing that it's to be used solely for expenditures on spells and creating magic items in game. I'm also assuming the same is true for any gold piece gain and loss. Is this a correct assumption, or is there another mechanic at work for XP and gp that I'm not aware of? Meanwhile, where is this information, because it's not in the MoH Campaign Standards document that I can find. If it is, let me know what page number because that would be good information to know.
Frobi-Wan Kenobi 06-26-05, 01:22 PM	Check out the Gaining Levels section of the 1.2 Campaign Standards page 9 Players in a D&D campaign have only a very rough idea how much XP they have since the actual number is kept hidden in WotC's RPGA database
DoveArrow 06-26-05, 01:59 PM	Well then here's another question: If you don't know how much XP you have, then how do you know if you have enough to cast spell storing item? Can you go into XP debt, so to speak? (That is the third RPGA session where my cleric has had to cast miracle to raise the whole party. I'm not sure how much XP I had before, but I'm sure I must be at least 10,000 in the hole. At this rate, I'm never going to level. :P ) Also, are they supposed to tell you how much gold you have?
IceV2 07-01-05, 01:18 PM	You actually can use any infusion witch have an associated XP cost. The XP lost is reported by the GM. In that case your character will get less XP for the adventure.
Hellcow 07-01-05, 01:48 PM	What about spells with monetary components - like Identify, which requires a 100 gp pearl? Is that considered expendible, and thus increased to 500 gp?
Jesse Heinig 07-01-05, 04:51 PM	My guess would be that you spend the 100 gp out of your coin on hand. Anything you didn't use on your allocation of gear goes into the CoH pool, as I recall. What about spells with monetary components - like Identify, which requires a 100 gp pearl? Is that considered expendible, and thus increased to 500 gp?
DoveArrow 07-01-05, 05:30 PM	What about spells with monetary components - like Identify, which requires a 100 gp pearl? Is that considered expendible, and thus increased to 500 gp? Yes, because it is a consumable item, it costs five times its regular price to purchase. I don't think they listed it in the Campaign Standards document mainly because it's not part of the equipment list in the Player's Handbok. My guess would be that you spend the 100 gp out of your coin on hand. Anything you didn't use on your allocation of gear goes into the CoH pool, as I recall. According to the Campaign Standards, you can't change your equipment list in game. Now granted, the rules aren't exactly clear on whether spell components are considered equipment or not, but I'd say that they are. Now my question is, for purposes of CoH, is that pearl you purchased as a spell component worth the Player's Handbook price of 100 gp, or is it worth the 500 gp that you spent to purchase it? My feeling is it's probably worth the Player's Handbook price, but I'm not sure.
IceV2 07-01-05, 09:23 PM	What about spells with monetary components - like Identify, which requires a 100 gp pearl? Is that considered expendible, and thus increased to 500 gp? EVERY consumable material cost five times the standart value because you get the object again in the next adventure. Like the XP you can expend the cost (even if you don't have the GP in your CoH) and the GM will report your expenses (if any). Renember that you can't expend more than your GP limit. According to the Campaign Standards, you can't change your equipment list in game. Now granted, the rules aren't exactly clear on whether spell components are considered equipment or not, but I'd say that they are. Wrong. See the page 9 of the Campaign Standart: In the Gaining Levels section: "...You can retool all but (...): race, the classes you have taken, your creation card, and your expansion list..." In the Equipping Characters section: "You can reequip your characters betwen events. You can retool your equipment list, or you can keep what you had before." The spell components are part of the equipment. That's right.
DoveArrow 07-02-05, 02:27 AM	Wrong. See the page 9 of the Campaign Standart: Not wrong. I read the page. It says that consumable items typically cost five times their published cost. It does not say anywhere specifically that spell components are considered consumable items. My point was that while it doesn't say that specifically, the document implies that spell components are considered consumable items, since they are consumed in the casting of the spell. Sorry if I didn't make that clearer. Meanwhile, sorry if the above post sounds a little emotionally charged. My honor was at stake, darnit, and I had to defend my honor. ;)
IceV2 07-02-05, 08:43 AM	It does not say anywhere specifically that spell components are considered consumable items. Right, is a logical conclusion: You consume the item every time that you cast the spell.
Niaslos FireCrow 07-02-05, 12:22 PM	I always thought you had two choices when dealing with this: paying the prics x5 to have it in your equipment list at each session (at least until you change it) or paying it in-game with your CoH at the normal cost. Was I wrong?
DoveArrow 07-02-05, 12:37 PM	I always thought you had two choices when dealing with this: paying the prics x5 to have it in your equipment list at each session (at least until you change it) or paying it in-game with your CoH at the normal cost. Was I wrong? As far as I can tell, you are wrong, unfortunately. The Campaign Standards document says on page nine that you're allowed to retool your character between sessions. However, once you've entered a session at an event, you cannot change your equipment list for the rest of that event. I'm guessing, of course, that they exclude treasure items that you pick up during a session (the item goes away at the end of the session, but for the moment it's on your equipment list). However, my feeling is, if you could just purchase a potion at any time, why would you ever equip your character with it? Just buy one while you're still in town somewhere and get an 80% discount. Of course, then that begs the question, what is the coin on hand for? Bribing people? Buying ale and wh... well let's be tasteful. Anyway, it's a good question.
Hellcow 07-07-05, 11:16 PM	OK, Help Keith Baker issue #2: Campaign Cards. I have a complete extra set of Set 1 and Set 3, but completely missed out on Set 2 - and needless to say, if it's anything to do with Eberron, I want it! So, I'm looking to trade (and I'm happy to autograph any cards I trade). If you have any interest in such a thing, private message me!
CyberGaston 07-08-05, 01:24 AM	I sent you a PM. :D
TimRat 07-08-05, 09:08 PM	hey keith and all. i sent all these questions on to the higher ups and they are looking into them as we speak.