Xen'drik Expeditions in Dungeon? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Xen'drik Expeditions in Dungeon? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Takasi
05-04-06, 04:34 PM I recently submitted this to the RPGA and I was wondering if the DMs and players here could provide some feedback. Is this something you'd like to see?

"I'm a fan of Dungeon magazine and I've read on several forums that Paizo is looking for more Eberron and Forgotten Realms adventures. The primary reason given by Paizo for their recent lack of Eberron content in Dungeon is the lack of reader submissions. In the last 2 years there have been 72 adventures but only 8 have been in Eberron. Of those 8, 3 were developed by the RPGA (the 2004 Gen Con D&D Open).

I talked with Dungeon editor James Jacobs about the future of publishing RPGA content through Dungeon, and he said they would be willing to consider doing more if the RPGA submitted them. I think the D&D Campaigns provide quality adventures, and it would be very exciting if Dungeon published an adventure for the upcoming Xen'drik expeditions campaign.

Well of Woe is the first Core Xen'drik Expeditions adventure. I have posted the GenCon event description to James Jacobs, and he said if the RPGA submitted the adventure they would consider it for publication. Is this something you can do?

I very much enjoyed the reprint of the 2004 D&D Open and I would love to see more RPGA adventures in Dungeon. I liked playing and running Mark of Heroes adventures and I look forward to playing in the Xen'drik Expeditions Campaign. I will not be able to make it to GenCon Indy this year (going to SoCal instead) but I would like to see Well of Woe in one form or another, even if I miss the event.

Perhaps if Dungeon does not print Well of Woe, maybe they could create or publish another exclusive adventure for the Xen'drik Expeditions Campaign? This would be an excellent opportunity for cross promotion of Dungeon magazine and the RPGA. "
Madfox11
05-05-06, 05:05 AM The requirements for a good convention scenario are in my experience quite different for what makes a good general scenario. It would take some work to convert one to the other*. It probably is possible, but the few examples I have seen in the past were not exactly great (though that might be because the original adventure was not good in the first place). Now the real problem is that any such action can only be initiated on the RPGA HQ's side. They buy the full rights for any adventure in their database. In fact, unless the contract changed significantly, they can decide to change, publish or sell the rights without consulting the original author.

* Note that so-called "specials" are an even more special convention scenario: they are basically dungeon crawls designed to challenge groups even more then regular adventures.
grahamdrew
05-05-06, 10:38 AM This feels a lot like trying to hammer a square peg in a round hole. Instead of dwelling on the reasons not to do this, I'd like to hear some reasons to do it, though.

What does this buy us?

All I can see it would mean is that not to run Xen'drik Expeditions I have to buy Dungeon magazine as opposed to downloading it for free. If the mods were published in Dungeon, how would that improve the campaign?

Andrew Beard
Takasi
05-05-06, 04:21 PM Dungeon adventures are already available to saction for reward points. The advantage of having a Campaign specific Dungeon Adventure is you can gain additional experience for your campaign character.

As an alternative, Dungeon could again republish upcoming Xen'drik Expeditions adventures after they're no longer available for sanctioning. They did this with the D&D Open (MoH XMH tournament modules) which were IMO far more difficult to convert to the style of Dungeon adventure than the traditional Campaign module. The majority of existing, non-tournament D&D Campaign modules are very similar to Dungeon adventures in terms of roleplay vs combat opportunity, length and overall quality. The main advantage in this case is Dungeon will have more Eberron content they are missing and the RPGA could potentially attract more players.
grahamdrew
05-05-06, 05:03 PM Sorry, but I don't really get either of those.

Dungeon adventures are already available to saction for reward points. The advantage of having a Campaign specific Dungeon Adventure is you can gain additional experience for your campaign character.

Yeah, but this is an adventure the RPGA has submitted to the Dungeon staff. Which means if it wasn't in Dungeon, it would be normally orderable and downloadable like a normal mod right (instead of a placeholder)? You'd be getting campaign advancement for it anyway...

The main advantage in this case is Dungeon will have more Eberron content they are missing and the RPGA could potentially attract more players.

The RPGA needs to work on it's signup process if it wants to attract new members. Even if someone reads a post-RPGA module in Dungeon, thinks it's pretty cool and decides they want to sign up for the RPGA they still need to find a current member to get them a membership card, at this point.

From other discussions it sounds like once a module is retired from the RPGA database the rights revert back to the author. With their current contracts the RPGA couldn't publish the module after it expired from campaign play; it's not theirs.

I'm just not seeing a good reason for the RPGA to put the time and effort into a project like this if they can't get their current projects together.

Andrew Beard
Takasi
05-05-06, 05:27 PM Yeah, but this is an adventure the RPGA has submitted to the Dungeon staff. Which means if it wasn't in Dungeon, it would be normally orderable and downloadable like a normal mod right (instead of a placeholder)? You'd be getting campaign advancement for it anyway...

In this scenario you have an outreach to herald level DMs who can read the adventure first before deciding to sanction it.

There is a precedent for this. WotC publishes Campaign modules and sells them through retail kits despite the fact that you can, with some initiative, go in and order the modules yourself.

There are many RPGA members who will only play in or run modules at organized conventions where the sanctions and adventure printouts are handled by the event staff. An adventure in Dungeon magazine might entice some DMs to maybe setup a gameday at their local store. Perhaps they only play in Living Greyhawk, and after reading a quality Xen'drik Expeditions module they may be more likely to try the new Campaign.

The RPGA needs to work on it's signup process if it wants to attract new members. Even if someone reads a post-RPGA module in Dungeon, thinks it's pretty cool and decides they want to sign up for the RPGA they still need to find a current member to get them a membership card, at this point.

Seeing the adventure in Dungeon might motivate them to seek out current members, either through a convention, gameday or online.

From other discussions it sounds like once a module is retired from the RPGA database the rights revert back to the author. With their current contracts the RPGA couldn't publish the module after it expired from campaign play; it's not theirs.

I don't know if that's true or not, but there has been collaboration in the past between Dungeon and the RPGA. Three Eberron adventures in Dungeon were RPGA modules. If they've made arrangements before it may be possible to do it again.
Frobi-Wan Kenobi
05-05-06, 07:57 PM I don't know if that's true or not, but there has been collaboration in the past between Dungeon and the RPGA.

Having signed one of those contracts mentioned I can confirm that its true.

Three Eberron adventures in Dungeon were RPGA modules. If they've made arrangements before it may be possible to do it again.

The Shards of Eberron Campaign Arc that you keep holding up as "proof" is no more an RPGA module than an adventure printed in last month edition.

The D&D Open is not a part of any RPGA campaign. It is DMed by RPGA DMs at GenCon Indy but neither the judges nor the players are recorded as playing/judging it in the RPGA database.

You've got a good idea but it would never work especially this late in the release for XenEx.
pedr
05-06-06, 07:00 AM The more obvious example is 'Key to the Grave' which was an adventure published in Dungon which took a party from 1st level to 3rd level set (I think) in Greyhawk City, and adapted and/or written specifically to be playable as a Living Greyhawk introductory adventure. I didn't get to play it, and I don't know how good it was (there were apparently problems with scaling the treasure available - if you played with six characters you got far less gold by 3rd level than you would if you'd played 'normal' LG modules, so I've heard).

Three thoughts come to mind. The LG campaign leadership is going to be 'adapting' the various generic adventures from WotC (Fantastic Locations and Red Hand of Doom) so that they can be played by LG characters as part of the campaign. This is a new development, and could be extended to Dungeon adventures. Since Dungeon has the authorisation to use WotC intellectual property, it might be that modules under the new, rights-revert-to-writer, contracts could be submitted by the writer to Dungeon once the RPGA rights have expired. Of course that would take two years in most cases. Thirdly, both MoH and Xen'Ex encourage the writing of DM's Mark adventures. These aren't covered by any contract with WotC or the RPGA, so perhaps DMs who write them could be encouraged to flesh them out and submit them to Dungeon - with the advantage that they'll have been playtested once!
kenobi65
05-07-06, 03:33 PM The context some of you may not know:

takasi (the original poster) desperately wants more Eberron content in Dungeon. This was the topic of an incredibly long thread that he started over on the ENWorld boards about a month or so ago. Particularly in the past six months or so, there hasn't been a whole lot, and takasi was / is convinced that it's because the Dungeon staff hasn't been trying hard enough. Based on the original post here, it sounds like James Jacobs from Dungeon mentioned to him that they'd be open to printing RPGA modules again (though, whether or not it makes sense from an RPGA standpoint is another question entirely).

(BTW, the LG adventure in Dungeon was called "Mad God's Key". I belive "Keys to the Grave" was a regular LG adventure that was related to it.)
Mind Flayer Monk
05-11-06, 04:28 AM The context some of you may not know:

takasi (the original poster) desperately wants more Eberron content in Dungeon. This was the topic of an incredibly long thread that he started over on the ENWorld boards about a month or so ago. Particularly in the past six months or so, there hasn't been a whole lot, and takasi was / is convinced that it's because the Dungeon staff hasn't been trying hard enough.

Well, you've got to respect someone that is proactive and takes some initiative.
The forums over in Eberron are just busting at the seams with creativity, and you just wonder how its not spilling over into some of the other publications.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Takasi 05-04-06, 04:34 PM	I recently submitted this to the RPGA and I was wondering if the DMs and players here could provide some feedback. Is this something you'd like to see? "I'm a fan of Dungeon magazine and I've read on several forums that Paizo is looking for more Eberron and Forgotten Realms adventures. The primary reason given by Paizo for their recent lack of Eberron content in Dungeon is the lack of reader submissions. In the last 2 years there have been 72 adventures but only 8 have been in Eberron. Of those 8, 3 were developed by the RPGA (the 2004 Gen Con D&D Open). I talked with Dungeon editor James Jacobs about the future of publishing RPGA content through Dungeon, and he said they would be willing to consider doing more if the RPGA submitted them. I think the D&D Campaigns provide quality adventures, and it would be very exciting if Dungeon published an adventure for the upcoming Xen'drik expeditions campaign. Well of Woe is the first Core Xen'drik Expeditions adventure. I have posted the GenCon event description to James Jacobs, and he said if the RPGA submitted the adventure they would consider it for publication. Is this something you can do? I very much enjoyed the reprint of the 2004 D&D Open and I would love to see more RPGA adventures in Dungeon. I liked playing and running Mark of Heroes adventures and I look forward to playing in the Xen'drik Expeditions Campaign. I will not be able to make it to GenCon Indy this year (going to SoCal instead) but I would like to see Well of Woe in one form or another, even if I miss the event. Perhaps if Dungeon does not print Well of Woe, maybe they could create or publish another exclusive adventure for the Xen'drik Expeditions Campaign? This would be an excellent opportunity for cross promotion of Dungeon magazine and the RPGA. "
Madfox11 05-05-06, 05:05 AM	The requirements for a good convention scenario are in my experience quite different for what makes a good general scenario. It would take some work to convert one to the other. It probably is possible, but the few examples I have seen in the past were not exactly great (though that might be because the original adventure was not good in the first place). Now the real problem is that any such action can only be initiated on the RPGA HQ's side. They buy the full rights for any adventure in their database. In fact, unless the contract changed significantly, they can decide to change, publish or sell the rights without consulting the original author. Note that so-called "specials" are an even more special convention scenario: they are basically dungeon crawls designed to challenge groups even more then regular adventures.
grahamdrew 05-05-06, 10:38 AM	This feels a lot like trying to hammer a square peg in a round hole. Instead of dwelling on the reasons not to do this, I'd like to hear some reasons to do it, though. What does this buy us? All I can see it would mean is that not to run Xen'drik Expeditions I have to buy Dungeon magazine as opposed to downloading it for free. If the mods were published in Dungeon, how would that improve the campaign? Andrew Beard
Takasi 05-05-06, 04:21 PM	Dungeon adventures are already available to saction for reward points. The advantage of having a Campaign specific Dungeon Adventure is you can gain additional experience for your campaign character. As an alternative, Dungeon could again republish upcoming Xen'drik Expeditions adventures after they're no longer available for sanctioning. They did this with the D&D Open (MoH XMH tournament modules) which were IMO far more difficult to convert to the style of Dungeon adventure than the traditional Campaign module. The majority of existing, non-tournament D&D Campaign modules are very similar to Dungeon adventures in terms of roleplay vs combat opportunity, length and overall quality. The main advantage in this case is Dungeon will have more Eberron content they are missing and the RPGA could potentially attract more players.
grahamdrew 05-05-06, 05:03 PM	Sorry, but I don't really get either of those. Dungeon adventures are already available to saction for reward points. The advantage of having a Campaign specific Dungeon Adventure is you can gain additional experience for your campaign character. Yeah, but this is an adventure the RPGA has submitted to the Dungeon staff. Which means if it wasn't in Dungeon, it would be normally orderable and downloadable like a normal mod right (instead of a placeholder)? You'd be getting campaign advancement for it anyway... The main advantage in this case is Dungeon will have more Eberron content they are missing and the RPGA could potentially attract more players. The RPGA needs to work on it's signup process if it wants to attract new members. Even if someone reads a post-RPGA module in Dungeon, thinks it's pretty cool and decides they want to sign up for the RPGA they still need to find a current member to get them a membership card, at this point. From other discussions it sounds like once a module is retired from the RPGA database the rights revert back to the author. With their current contracts the RPGA couldn't publish the module after it expired from campaign play; it's not theirs. I'm just not seeing a good reason for the RPGA to put the time and effort into a project like this if they can't get their current projects together. Andrew Beard
Takasi 05-05-06, 05:27 PM	Yeah, but this is an adventure the RPGA has submitted to the Dungeon staff. Which means if it wasn't in Dungeon, it would be normally orderable and downloadable like a normal mod right (instead of a placeholder)? You'd be getting campaign advancement for it anyway... In this scenario you have an outreach to herald level DMs who can read the adventure first before deciding to sanction it. There is a precedent for this. WotC publishes Campaign modules and sells them through retail kits despite the fact that you can, with some initiative, go in and order the modules yourself. There are many RPGA members who will only play in or run modules at organized conventions where the sanctions and adventure printouts are handled by the event staff. An adventure in Dungeon magazine might entice some DMs to maybe setup a gameday at their local store. Perhaps they only play in Living Greyhawk, and after reading a quality Xen'drik Expeditions module they may be more likely to try the new Campaign. The RPGA needs to work on it's signup process if it wants to attract new members. Even if someone reads a post-RPGA module in Dungeon, thinks it's pretty cool and decides they want to sign up for the RPGA they still need to find a current member to get them a membership card, at this point. Seeing the adventure in Dungeon might motivate them to seek out current members, either through a convention, gameday or online. From other discussions it sounds like once a module is retired from the RPGA database the rights revert back to the author. With their current contracts the RPGA couldn't publish the module after it expired from campaign play; it's not theirs. I don't know if that's true or not, but there has been collaboration in the past between Dungeon and the RPGA. Three Eberron adventures in Dungeon were RPGA modules. If they've made arrangements before it may be possible to do it again.
Frobi-Wan Kenobi 05-05-06, 07:57 PM	I don't know if that's true or not, but there has been collaboration in the past between Dungeon and the RPGA. Having signed one of those contracts mentioned I can confirm that its true. Three Eberron adventures in Dungeon were RPGA modules. If they've made arrangements before it may be possible to do it again. The Shards of Eberron Campaign Arc that you keep holding up as "proof" is no more an RPGA module than an adventure printed in last month edition. The D&D Open is not a part of any RPGA campaign. It is DMed by RPGA DMs at GenCon Indy but neither the judges nor the players are recorded as playing/judging it in the RPGA database. You've got a good idea but it would never work especially this late in the release for XenEx.
pedr 05-06-06, 07:00 AM	The more obvious example is 'Key to the Grave' which was an adventure published in Dungon which took a party from 1st level to 3rd level set (I think) in Greyhawk City, and adapted and/or written specifically to be playable as a Living Greyhawk introductory adventure. I didn't get to play it, and I don't know how good it was (there were apparently problems with scaling the treasure available - if you played with six characters you got far less gold by 3rd level than you would if you'd played 'normal' LG modules, so I've heard). Three thoughts come to mind. The LG campaign leadership is going to be 'adapting' the various generic adventures from WotC (Fantastic Locations and Red Hand of Doom) so that they can be played by LG characters as part of the campaign. This is a new development, and could be extended to Dungeon adventures. Since Dungeon has the authorisation to use WotC intellectual property, it might be that modules under the new, rights-revert-to-writer, contracts could be submitted by the writer to Dungeon once the RPGA rights have expired. Of course that would take two years in most cases. Thirdly, both MoH and Xen'Ex encourage the writing of DM's Mark adventures. These aren't covered by any contract with WotC or the RPGA, so perhaps DMs who write them could be encouraged to flesh them out and submit them to Dungeon - with the advantage that they'll have been playtested once!
kenobi65 05-07-06, 03:33 PM	The context some of you may not know: takasi (the original poster) desperately wants more Eberron content in Dungeon. This was the topic of an incredibly long thread that he started over on the ENWorld boards about a month or so ago. Particularly in the past six months or so, there hasn't been a whole lot, and takasi was / is convinced that it's because the Dungeon staff hasn't been trying hard enough. Based on the original post here, it sounds like James Jacobs from Dungeon mentioned to him that they'd be open to printing RPGA modules again (though, whether or not it makes sense from an RPGA standpoint is another question entirely). (BTW, the LG adventure in Dungeon was called "Mad God's Key". I belive "Keys to the Grave" was a regular LG adventure that was related to it.)
Mind Flayer Monk 05-11-06, 04:28 AM	The context some of you may not know: takasi (the original poster) desperately wants more Eberron content in Dungeon. This was the topic of an incredibly long thread that he started over on the ENWorld boards about a month or so ago. Particularly in the past six months or so, there hasn't been a whole lot, and takasi was / is convinced that it's because the Dungeon staff hasn't been trying hard enough. Well, you've got to respect someone that is proactive and takes some initiative. The forums over in Eberron are just busting at the seams with creativity, and you just wonder how its not spilling over into some of the other publications.