24 of whose hours? [Archive] - Wizards Community

24 of whose hours? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Watchdog_of_Hades
09-10-06, 05:00 PM There are lots of abilities that state that if A makes its save against B's power, it's immune to B's ability for 24 hours. However, with powerful magic, different rates of time between planes, and all that, 24 hours for A can be a blink of an eye for B. So, is A immune for 24 of A's hours or 24 of B's hours?
Tequila_Sunrise
09-10-06, 06:38 PM I don't use time travel/warp planes/effects in my game so this isn't a problem for me, but good question!
Silverthumb128
09-10-06, 06:39 PM 24 hours after the ability was used.
Alac Luin
09-10-06, 07:06 PM I'll throw my vote in as it would be "typically" 24 hours of real time for A.

I'll use this example, A Harpy sings, and Bob the Cleric saves, but his comrade Frank the Fighter did not.
Bob casts a sucesful hold person on Frank
Bob then Escapes to Astral Plane draging Frank with him.
They then spend a full day (24 hours) to allow Bob get his spells back, healing, sleeping, etc.)

They transport back to the Harpy lair, what is one minute after thier escape.
Bob would now have to make a new save vs the harpy song.

Also note, the spell time stop does not actually alter time. It speeds up the caster. This would have no effect on "real time"
Mithral Icesilver
09-11-06, 08:38 AM I believe it works something like this:

Durations elapse normally on timeless planes unless it is noted that such planes are timeless with regard to spell durations. However, on planes that have flowing time - that is, actual differences in how fast time goes, the spell elapses at whatever rate is normal for the plane that the subject is on.
runestar
09-11-06, 09:05 AM I would say that it would be 24 hours after the victim had been affected.:P
Millennium
09-11-06, 09:31 AM This is why I normally tie such things to astronomical cycles. Any "24-hour" effect that takes place during daylight hours lasts until the next dawn. Any "24-hour" effect that takes place at night lasts until the next dusk.

Technically, this means that such effects usually last for less than 24 hours, though if carefully timed (both in the context of when in the day it's cast and when in the year it's cast) they could last for slightly more. I don't consider this a problem, because it can affect how magic impacts society in really nifty ways. Calendar-based mysticism (or mysticism-based calendars) are cool.
kliate
09-11-06, 09:33 AM IF
a) 24 hours or more have passed for the victim since it was affected by the ability
AND
b) 24 hours or more have passed for the creature with the ability
THEN
The victim can be affected.
ELSE
The victim cannot be affected.

That's the easiest solution. No monsters running away into another plane to get their power back, no adventurers complaining about the monster having not had 24 hours to get it back. I would, however, suggest a potential XP reduction if players attempt to cheese the situation by running into hyper-accelerated planes to prepare fresh spells and heal.
mvincent
09-11-06, 05:19 PM There are lots of abilities that state that if A makes its save against B's power, it's immune to B's ability for 24 hours. However, with powerful magic, different rates of time between planes, and all that, 24 hours for A can be a blink of an eye for B. So, is A immune for 24 of A's hours or 24 of B's hours?A's hours.

This is because A is the one that made the saving throw and has the immunity. B is not directly affected.
Watchdog_of_Hades
09-11-06, 06:18 PM Okay, then. Thanks for the input, everyone.
primemover003
09-11-06, 07:51 PM Alac I think you got the Astral mixed up. It has the Timeless trait and no time passes on the Astral Plane, but it does pass on the Prime. So the Fighter and Cleric hop to the Astral for 24 hours and return a day later on the Prime. While on the Astral they don't age or heal naturally, they don't need to eat or drink and poison stops working... until they return to the Prime where all those effects instantly catch up.
Alac Luin
09-11-06, 10:27 PM Alac I think you got the Astral mixed up. It has the Timeless trait and no time passes on the Astral Plane<snip>
I knew useing astral might be an issue.:)
Time itself does not pass, but the charicter is still experianceing "relative time".
So yes, for things like poisons and stuff, the timeless trait does play a part.

But useing a harpy's song as an example, the timeless trait does not cover (have rules for) this supernatural ability.
I'm looking at it this way, if the harpy attempted to fasinate a gith while on the astral, that gith should not be immune to that harpy's song for time untold. A new save would be required after 24 hours of relative time.
(thats how I'm approching this).
Roivas
09-12-06, 01:30 AM So then if you're a wizard from the Astral plane you have to go to another plane everyday to get your spells back? That would be tough at lower levels.
Mithral Icesilver
09-12-06, 08:39 AM See, the thing about the 3.x timeless trait is that it only applies to specific things. F'r instance, the Astral in 3.0 is only timeless with respect to age, hunger, thirst, poison, and natural healing, so other time effects elapse normally.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Watchdog_of_Hades 09-10-06, 05:00 PM	There are lots of abilities that state that if A makes its save against B's power, it's immune to B's ability for 24 hours. However, with powerful magic, different rates of time between planes, and all that, 24 hours for A can be a blink of an eye for B. So, is A immune for 24 of A's hours or 24 of B's hours?
Tequila_Sunrise 09-10-06, 06:38 PM	I don't use time travel/warp planes/effects in my game so this isn't a problem for me, but good question!
Silverthumb128 09-10-06, 06:39 PM	24 hours after the ability was used.
Alac Luin 09-10-06, 07:06 PM	I'll throw my vote in as it would be "typically" 24 hours of real time for A. I'll use this example, A Harpy sings, and Bob the Cleric saves, but his comrade Frank the Fighter did not. Bob casts a sucesful hold person on Frank Bob then Escapes to Astral Plane draging Frank with him. They then spend a full day (24 hours) to allow Bob get his spells back, healing, sleeping, etc.) They transport back to the Harpy lair, what is one minute after thier escape. Bob would now have to make a new save vs the harpy song. Also note, the spell time stop does not actually alter time. It speeds up the caster. This would have no effect on "real time"
Mithral Icesilver 09-11-06, 08:38 AM	I believe it works something like this: Durations elapse normally on timeless planes unless it is noted that such planes are timeless with regard to spell durations. However, on planes that have flowing time - that is, actual differences in how fast time goes, the spell elapses at whatever rate is normal for the plane that the subject is on.
runestar 09-11-06, 09:05 AM	I would say that it would be 24 hours after the victim had been affected.:P
Millennium 09-11-06, 09:31 AM	This is why I normally tie such things to astronomical cycles. Any "24-hour" effect that takes place during daylight hours lasts until the next dawn. Any "24-hour" effect that takes place at night lasts until the next dusk. Technically, this means that such effects usually last for less than 24 hours, though if carefully timed (both in the context of when in the day it's cast and when in the year it's cast) they could last for slightly more. I don't consider this a problem, because it can affect how magic impacts society in really nifty ways. Calendar-based mysticism (or mysticism-based calendars) are cool.
kliate 09-11-06, 09:33 AM	IF a) 24 hours or more have passed for the victim since it was affected by the ability AND b) 24 hours or more have passed for the creature with the ability THEN The victim can be affected. ELSE The victim cannot be affected. That's the easiest solution. No monsters running away into another plane to get their power back, no adventurers complaining about the monster having not had 24 hours to get it back. I would, however, suggest a potential XP reduction if players attempt to cheese the situation by running into hyper-accelerated planes to prepare fresh spells and heal.
mvincent 09-11-06, 05:19 PM	There are lots of abilities that state that if A makes its save against B's power, it's immune to B's ability for 24 hours. However, with powerful magic, different rates of time between planes, and all that, 24 hours for A can be a blink of an eye for B. So, is A immune for 24 of A's hours or 24 of B's hours?A's hours. This is because A is the one that made the saving throw and has the immunity. B is not directly affected.
Watchdog_of_Hades 09-11-06, 06:18 PM	Okay, then. Thanks for the input, everyone.
primemover003 09-11-06, 07:51 PM	Alac I think you got the Astral mixed up. It has the Timeless trait and no time passes on the Astral Plane, but it does pass on the Prime. So the Fighter and Cleric hop to the Astral for 24 hours and return a day later on the Prime. While on the Astral they don't age or heal naturally, they don't need to eat or drink and poison stops working... until they return to the Prime where all those effects instantly catch up.
Alac Luin 09-11-06, 10:27 PM	Alac I think you got the Astral mixed up. It has the Timeless trait and no time passes on the Astral Plane<snip> I knew useing astral might be an issue.:) Time itself does not pass, but the charicter is still experianceing "relative time". So yes, for things like poisons and stuff, the timeless trait does play a part. But useing a harpy's song as an example, the timeless trait does not cover (have rules for) this supernatural ability. I'm looking at it this way, if the harpy attempted to fasinate a gith while on the astral, that gith should not be immune to that harpy's song for time untold. A new save would be required after 24 hours of relative time. (thats how I'm approching this).
Roivas 09-12-06, 01:30 AM	So then if you're a wizard from the Astral plane you have to go to another plane everyday to get your spells back? That would be tough at lower levels.
Mithral Icesilver 09-12-06, 08:39 AM	See, the thing about the 3.x timeless trait is that it only applies to specific things. F'r instance, the Astral in 3.0 is only timeless with respect to age, hunger, thirst, poison, and natural healing, so other time effects elapse normally.