3.0 Demons + Devils: too weak? [Archive] - Wizards Community

3.0 Demons + Devils: too weak? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ordos
06-18-04, 09:57 PM Is it me, or do the demons and devils in 3.0 have WAAAAAY too few HPs for their CR rating. Take a Glabrezu for example -- one figures that with a DR of 20/+2 and (only) 85 HPs he would be a challenge to a 10th level party... but by 10th level, you figure most PCs have +2 weapons (rendering the DR useless) and you put a few fighters against it -- 85 HPs are NOT alot.

Has anyone really tried these things in combat, or does it just LOOK like a push-over on paper...? I know i can always boost the HPs... but still...

I think 3.5 did the right thing in boosting teh demons WAY up there.. (ie: 174 HPs and actually a LOWER CR!)...

Thanks
Shemeska the Marauder
06-19-04, 12:42 AM Sadly the Yugoloths got shafted in their stats in the MotP. Compared to their 2e/Planescape incarnations they're sad. Ultroloths are woefully underpowered.

However, the MMII treatment of some of the 'loths did much better. The version of the Arcanaloth therein was a very nice conversion from the earlier editions. However I don't personally care for them casting as sorcerers, only because by definition they're supposed to be more or less the paragon of fiendish casters, yet by 3e sorcerer mechanics they have a terribly limited number of known spells.
kinem
06-19-04, 01:04 AM Hi. I'd say the real reason arcanaloths should cast as wizards is flavor.

They used to be cool because they were the fiends that actually had a reason to be interested in learning arcane knowledge, and therefore were highly educated and sophisticated.

I took one look at the MM2, in a bookstore. I turned to the arcanaloth right away, to see if they were still wizards. Sadly, they're not, just another uncouth fiend with innate magical powers. I said to myself "whoever wrote this is a clueless berk, typical of WoTC" and put it back on the shelf.
Moonstonedragon
06-19-04, 01:27 AM Yeah Im disappointed in alot of the evil outsiders, very weak, low HP, poor DC for their spells for what their CR is

I dont go the 3.5 book, but in 3.0 they suck
Shemeska the Marauder
06-19-04, 02:25 AM That's alright, I houserule my own Arcanaloths to cast as Sorcerer's but have no limited spell list. Essentially I have them as spontaneous casting wizards. Makes them a larger threat and fits their flavor text much more. (and removes the chance of them losing their casting by losing their spellbooks, which is a threat for wizards, but not sorcerers).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ordos 06-18-04, 09:57 PM	Is it me, or do the demons and devils in 3.0 have WAAAAAY too few HPs for their CR rating. Take a Glabrezu for example -- one figures that with a DR of 20/+2 and (only) 85 HPs he would be a challenge to a 10th level party... but by 10th level, you figure most PCs have +2 weapons (rendering the DR useless) and you put a few fighters against it -- 85 HPs are NOT alot. Has anyone really tried these things in combat, or does it just LOOK like a push-over on paper...? I know i can always boost the HPs... but still... I think 3.5 did the right thing in boosting teh demons WAY up there.. (ie: 174 HPs and actually a LOWER CR!)... Thanks
Shemeska the Marauder 06-19-04, 12:42 AM	Sadly the Yugoloths got shafted in their stats in the MotP. Compared to their 2e/Planescape incarnations they're sad. Ultroloths are woefully underpowered. However, the MMII treatment of some of the 'loths did much better. The version of the Arcanaloth therein was a very nice conversion from the earlier editions. However I don't personally care for them casting as sorcerers, only because by definition they're supposed to be more or less the paragon of fiendish casters, yet by 3e sorcerer mechanics they have a terribly limited number of known spells.
kinem 06-19-04, 01:04 AM	Hi. I'd say the real reason arcanaloths should cast as wizards is flavor. They used to be cool because they were the fiends that actually had a reason to be interested in learning arcane knowledge, and therefore were highly educated and sophisticated. I took one look at the MM2, in a bookstore. I turned to the arcanaloth right away, to see if they were still wizards. Sadly, they're not, just another uncouth fiend with innate magical powers. I said to myself "whoever wrote this is a clueless berk, typical of WoTC" and put it back on the shelf.
Moonstonedragon 06-19-04, 01:27 AM	Yeah Im disappointed in alot of the evil outsiders, very weak, low HP, poor DC for their spells for what their CR is I dont go the 3.5 book, but in 3.0 they suck
Shemeska the Marauder 06-19-04, 02:25 AM	That's alright, I houserule my own Arcanaloths to cast as Sorcerer's but have no limited spell list. Essentially I have them as spontaneous casting wizards. Makes them a larger threat and fits their flavor text much more. (and removes the chance of them losing their casting by losing their spellbooks, which is a threat for wizards, but not sorcerers).