3.5e Drider template, PEACH [Archive] - Wizards Community

3.5e Drider template, PEACH [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Tethryn Lahralein
05-27-06, 09:18 PM I actually wanted to put together a simple breakdown of the Drider after looking at the Savage Species version, but I had a few misgivings. In spite of the power afforded a character by being a Drider, I disagreed with the fact that the 'class' partly discarded previous class abilities --with the exception of basic spellcasting-- and the restriction to only Clerics, Sorcerers, and Wizards being the ones who become Driders, also seemed strange in comparison to the various flavor text and stories involving driders. It stands to reason that a character of any class who advances to a high enough point in Drow society would go through the same rigors; Lolth spares none of her children, after all.

Additionally, the level adjustment needed a little examination. Taken into account, some of the Drider abilities from the 3.5e Monster Manual seem to overlap those of the basic Drow character-- spell resistance, and some of the spell-like abilities being two of them.

Another difference was the alteration of attack bonus and saves. Becoming a drider, in my opinion, does not necessarily change the previous training the character went through in his or her career. I believed that base attacks, saves, and skills should remain the same, just as they are with a Lich, for example, another template that grants special powers without changing base attack bonus, saving throws, or skills and skill points.

All things considered, the only differences left behind in the list of drow abilities are the typical Elven/Drow weapon proficiencies, bonuses to Listen/Search/Spot, Secret Doors, and Immunity to Sleep, minor resistance to Enchantments and Will-save spells, and light blindness (which Drider do not have... a concept I found odd indeed). While numerous, most of them do not have any great impact on character balance.

Having considered these points, I decided that a Drow changing to a Drider would only be worth a further +2 to their ECL. While the Wizards website template is similar to this one, I did not take it much into consideration, partly because of the difference in abilities between editions 3.0 and 3.5, and partly because the idea of any other race becoming a Drider was, in my opinion, more than a little ridiculous.

That said, the entirety of the template is broken down below for review and your own use.

Creating a Drider

"Drider" is a template that can be added to any Drow of 6th level or higher (referred to hereafter as the base creature).

Size and Type: The base creature's size increases by one step, from Medium to Large (Long). Despite this change in size, along with the requisite change of space to 10 feet, the base creature's reach does not change (as his body has extended in length more than in height). The increase in size also incurs a -4 penalty to Hide checks. The base creature's type changes to Aberration (Augmented Humanoid). Do not recalculate base attack bonus, saves, or skill points.

Hit Dice and Hit Points: The base creature's current Hit Dice do not change. To calculate total Hit Points, apply Constitution modifiers according to the new Constitution ability score (see Abilities, below).

Speed: The base creature gains a Climb speed of 15 feet, along with a +8 racial bonus to climb checks. A drider can also take 10 on all climb checks, even when rushed or threatened. Driders use either their Strength or Dexterity modifier for Climb checks, whichever is better.

Armor Class: A drider has a +6 natural armor bonus. In addition, the Drider has a -1 size penalty to its armor class.

Base Attack/Grapple: A drider has a -1 size penalty on its attacks due to its Large size, which also grants it a +4 bonus on all grapple checks.

Attack: The base creature gains a bite attack. It can use its bite alone or as a secondary natural attack.

Full Attack: A drider fighting without weapons uses its bite attack (see above). If armed with a weapon or weapons (or unarmed strike, as a Monk, for example), it usually uses the weapon as its primary attack along with a bite as a secondary attack.

Damage: A drider has a bite attack that deals d4 bludgeoning, piercing and slashing damage.

Special Attacks: A drider retains all the special attacks of the base creature and also gains a poisonous bite, Fortitude DC = 10 + 1/2 Hit Dice + Con modifier. Initial and secondary damage are both d6 Str.

Spell-Like Abilities: A drider retains all the spell-like abilities of the base creature and gains the following: 1/day -- detect chaos, detect evil, detect good, detect law, detect magic, dispel magic, levitate, and suggestion. These abilities are as the spells cast by a sorcerer of the drider's character levels (save DC 10 + Cha modifier + spell level).

Special Qualities: A drider retains all the special qualities of the base creature. A drider also has a +4 racial bonus on Hide and Move Silently checks. In addition, its multiple legs grant the drider a +4 bonus on rolls to resist bull rush and trip attempts. The configuration of a drider's body means that it cannot wear boots or other footwear, but instead may wear a second necklace, belt, or other item worn around the neck or waist, wrapped around the arachnid portion of their body.

Abilities: Increase from the base creature as follows: Str +4, Dex +2, Con +8, Int +2, Wis +6, Cha +4.

Alignment: Always Chaotic Evil. The exceptions in Drider alignment are even rarer than those in typical Drow society.

Level Adjustment: Same as the base creature +2. With the Drow ECL of +2, this comes to a total of +4. Thus, a 6th-level Drow with the Drider template would be equivalent to a 10th-level character.

In theory, a half-drow or half-fiend Draegloth could also fail the Chwidridera, provided they were able to advance to that point in Drow society. Half-drow lack their dark elf parents' Spell Resistance, but the additions granted by the Drider template would still be a powerful addition, in which case the LA for a Half-drow would be a +3.

Were a Draegloth to become a Drider, it would become an even more powerful creature than it already is, with the additional changes to ability scores, an increase in size to Huge (Long), and various special abilities. Its type would remain Outsider (Chaotic, Evil, Native), though Augmented, it would gain a -8 size penalty to Hide checks, a -2 size penalty to armor class, and a +8 bonus on Grapple checks. In keeping with the size increase, the Draegloth-drider's base speed would increase to 40, and its Climb speed to 20. Furthermore, its bite and claw damage would increase one step, to 2d6 for its bite, and d8 for its claws, and the primary and secondary damage from its poisonous bite would be d8 Str. Overall it would be worth a +4 LA.

* * * * * * * *

Sample Drider Character :
This example uses a 6th level drow bard as the base creature (also seen here (http://hometown.aol.com/ebonkiasyd/jeryvvin.html) on my website in greater detail):

Jeryvvin CR 10
Male drider bard 6
CE Large aberration (augmented humanoid [elf])
Init +5; Senses darkvision 120 ft.; Listen +13, Spot +4
Languages Common, Draconic, Drow Sign Language, Elven, Goblin, Undercommon
======================================== =====
AC 27, touch 15, flat-footed 22
hp 47 (HD 6)
Immune sleep
Resist +2 against spells and spell-like abilities, SR 17
Fort +7, Ref +11, Will +8 (+10 against enchantments)
Weakness light blindness
======================================== =====
Speed 40 ft. (8 squares), climb 15 ft. (3 squares)
Melee sarabande +9 (2d6+4+1d6 sonic/x2) and bite +3 (d4+1/x2 plus poison) or
Ranged +2 mighty composite shortbow +1 +9 (d8+3/x3)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Base Atk +4; Grp +10
Special Actions bardic music 6/day (countersong, fascinate 3 targets, inspire competence, inspire courage +1, suggestion),
haunting melody
Special Attacks poison
Combat Gear potion of cure moderate wounds, potion of heroism, 3 potions of magic fang, scroll of cat’s grace,
scroll of eagle’s splendor, wand of cure light wounds
Bard Spells Known (CL 6th):
0 (3/day)-- detect magic, ghost sound, mage hand, mending, prestidigitation, read magic
1st (5/day)-- alarm, charm person, cure light wounds, feather fall
2nd (5/day)-- cure moderate wounds, increase virulence, invisibility
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 6th): 1/day-- clairaudience/clairvoyance, dancing lights, darkness, detect good, detect law, detect magic,
dispel magic, faerie fire, levitate, suggestion
======================================== =====
Abilities Str 14, Dex 20, Con 18, Int 18, Wis 14, Cha 22
SQ able to notice secret or concealed doors, bardic knowledge +12
Feats Exotic Weapon Proficiency (spiked chain), Haunting Melody, Weapon Finesse
Skills Balance +7, Bluff +11, Climb +10, Concentration +8, Diplomacy +13, Hide +15, Jump +9, Knowledge (arcana) +9, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +9, Knowledge (history) +9, Listen +13, Move Silently +19, Perform (sing) +15, Perform (string instruments) +18, Search +6, Spellcraft +11 (+13 to decipher spells on scrolls), Spot +4, Survival +2 (+4 underground), Tumble +10, Use Magic Device +11 (+13 on checks related to scrolls)
Possessions combat gear, shadowscale peytrel (belt w/ +10 land speed, +5 jump/move silently), drow house insignia (ghostharp), +2 mighty composite shortbow +1 plus 20 arrows, ring of protection +1, sarabande (+1 screaming spiked chain), sash of resistance +1, spellsinger ward (+4 shadow chitin barding), spell component pouch, strings of the spider (instrument of the bards, with Jump, Summon Swarm, Web) .
======================================== =====
Haunting Melody (Sp) Expend one daily use of the bardic music ability while singing or using some other Perform skill to cause opponents within 30 feet to become shaken for 9 rounds, Will DC 19 negates.

Poison (Ex) Injury, Fortitude DC 17 (19 with increase virulence), initial and secondary damage 1d6 Str.
======================================== =====
Hook "I will sing songs of your pain long after I have shared my own with you..."
kinem
05-27-06, 11:34 PM Actually that seems pretty good. I would add the following:

Tauric Build (ex): The drider can use either medium size or large weapons without penalty.

You might also consider adding some kind of curse. What it carries social stigma, it would seem that becoming a drider has plenty of mechanical advantages, so a power-hungry maniac (drow or PC) could want it. Maybe something like

Anguish (ex): The drider is unhappy, giving it a -4 penalty on diplomacy checks.

Also, you forgot to include a CR adjustment, perhaps confusing it with LA since you gave your sample creature a CR equal to its ECL. (ECL = HD + LA, while CR is different.)

I would say a CR adjustment of +2 is about right, which would give your sample creature a CR of 9. With its high AC a CR of 10 is perhaps justified, but that is because he has fancy items that an average drider probably wouldn't.
Tethryn Lahralein
05-28-06, 01:06 AM Well, the Tauric build note seems like an interesting idea... I'll keep it in mind.

Thanks for the note on the CR adjustment... I tend to confuse them a little at times; the other thing is that CR for PC type characters is equal to LA anyway...

As for the social stigma vs. the power build... it's not so much something a character or NPC -chooses- to do, as it is inflicted on them for failing their goddess, and being cast out of their society (and horribly changed to boot). Socially speaking, the only creatures that driders tend to associate with on a closer basis are other driders, and not often; very unusual circumstances dictate any other sort of encounter.

As an offhand note, I'd say that any character or NPC who encounters them starts at a baseline unfriendly (and vice versa), and almost certainly hostile at minimum for a drow, half-drow, or draegloth... no sane member of dark elven society wants to have to deal with a reminder of what could happen to them if they screw up, and 9 times out of 10 (or more), the drider's feeling is mutual; they don't really want to deal much with a reminder of everything they lost.

Any other considerations?

*Something else I hadn't quite figured out was part of their climb ability, specifically moving and climbing in webs. Neither the drider, nor monstrous spiders, are mentioned to have any ability to do so w/o hindrance in the MM, last time I checked...

Another thing is that, being part spider, they can presumably use webbing (at least for building a burrow, like hunting or trapdoor spiders), or in non-combat round activities like making their own silk for webs, traps, armor, thread for cloth or rope (bizarre but possible, look at the chitine or ettercap for example). I might try working on feats related to the drider template, like allowing them to use webs more actively (web throwing).
SOPI
05-28-06, 06:38 PM Isn't there already a template for this in the MM?

EDIT: Oh, it's not a template, just a monster.

In that case, I agree with the changes that have already been made. Otherwise, nice template. Did you use the base 3e template from the website or start from scratch?
Tethryn Lahralein
05-29-06, 02:26 PM There was a drider template introduced awhile back on the Wizards/DnD website, but it had a few differences in abilities, and it was meant to be used on any creature, not just drow who'd failed the test.

That, and both the monster manual 'drider' entry and the savage species racial class only reflected a drider originating from cleric, sorcerer, or wizard spellcasting classes, with aberration base-race skills, skill points, HD, and saves.

My template is a bit of a departure from those two ideas, more similar to the lich, or half-dragon/celestial/fiend idea.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tethryn Lahralein 05-27-06, 09:18 PM	I actually wanted to put together a simple breakdown of the Drider after looking at the Savage Species version, but I had a few misgivings. In spite of the power afforded a character by being a Drider, I disagreed with the fact that the 'class' partly discarded previous class abilities --with the exception of basic spellcasting-- and the restriction to only Clerics, Sorcerers, and Wizards being the ones who become Driders, also seemed strange in comparison to the various flavor text and stories involving driders. It stands to reason that a character of any class who advances to a high enough point in Drow society would go through the same rigors; Lolth spares none of her children, after all. Additionally, the level adjustment needed a little examination. Taken into account, some of the Drider abilities from the 3.5e Monster Manual seem to overlap those of the basic Drow character-- spell resistance, and some of the spell-like abilities being two of them. Another difference was the alteration of attack bonus and saves. Becoming a drider, in my opinion, does not necessarily change the previous training the character went through in his or her career. I believed that base attacks, saves, and skills should remain the same, just as they are with a Lich, for example, another template that grants special powers without changing base attack bonus, saving throws, or skills and skill points. All things considered, the only differences left behind in the list of drow abilities are the typical Elven/Drow weapon proficiencies, bonuses to Listen/Search/Spot, Secret Doors, and Immunity to Sleep, minor resistance to Enchantments and Will-save spells, and light blindness (which Drider do not have... a concept I found odd indeed). While numerous, most of them do not have any great impact on character balance. Having considered these points, I decided that a Drow changing to a Drider would only be worth a further +2 to their ECL. While the Wizards website template is similar to this one, I did not take it much into consideration, partly because of the difference in abilities between editions 3.0 and 3.5, and partly because the idea of any other race becoming a Drider was, in my opinion, more than a little ridiculous. That said, the entirety of the template is broken down below for review and your own use. Creating a Drider "Drider" is a template that can be added to any Drow of 6th level or higher (referred to hereafter as the base creature). Size and Type: The base creature's size increases by one step, from Medium to Large (Long). Despite this change in size, along with the requisite change of space to 10 feet, the base creature's reach does not change (as his body has extended in length more than in height). The increase in size also incurs a -4 penalty to Hide checks. The base creature's type changes to Aberration (Augmented Humanoid). Do not recalculate base attack bonus, saves, or skill points. Hit Dice and Hit Points: The base creature's current Hit Dice do not change. To calculate total Hit Points, apply Constitution modifiers according to the new Constitution ability score (see Abilities, below). Speed: The base creature gains a Climb speed of 15 feet, along with a +8 racial bonus to climb checks. A drider can also take 10 on all climb checks, even when rushed or threatened. Driders use either their Strength or Dexterity modifier for Climb checks, whichever is better. Armor Class: A drider has a +6 natural armor bonus. In addition, the Drider has a -1 size penalty to its armor class. Base Attack/Grapple: A drider has a -1 size penalty on its attacks due to its Large size, which also grants it a +4 bonus on all grapple checks. Attack: The base creature gains a bite attack. It can use its bite alone or as a secondary natural attack. Full Attack: A drider fighting without weapons uses its bite attack (see above). If armed with a weapon or weapons (or unarmed strike, as a Monk, for example), it usually uses the weapon as its primary attack along with a bite as a secondary attack. Damage: A drider has a bite attack that deals d4 bludgeoning, piercing and slashing damage. Special Attacks: A drider retains all the special attacks of the base creature and also gains a poisonous bite, Fortitude DC = 10 + 1/2 Hit Dice + Con modifier. Initial and secondary damage are both d6 Str. Spell-Like Abilities: A drider retains all the spell-like abilities of the base creature and gains the following: 1/day -- detect chaos, detect evil, detect good, detect law, detect magic, dispel magic, levitate, and suggestion. These abilities are as the spells cast by a sorcerer of the drider's character levels (save DC 10 + Cha modifier + spell level). Special Qualities: A drider retains all the special qualities of the base creature. A drider also has a +4 racial bonus on Hide and Move Silently checks. In addition, its multiple legs grant the drider a +4 bonus on rolls to resist bull rush and trip attempts. The configuration of a drider's body means that it cannot wear boots or other footwear, but instead may wear a second necklace, belt, or other item worn around the neck or waist, wrapped around the arachnid portion of their body. Abilities: Increase from the base creature as follows: Str +4, Dex +2, Con +8, Int +2, Wis +6, Cha +4. Alignment: Always Chaotic Evil. The exceptions in Drider alignment are even rarer than those in typical Drow society. Level Adjustment: Same as the base creature +2. With the Drow ECL of +2, this comes to a total of +4. Thus, a 6th-level Drow with the Drider template would be equivalent to a 10th-level character. In theory, a half-drow or half-fiend Draegloth could also fail the Chwidridera, provided they were able to advance to that point in Drow society. Half-drow lack their dark elf parents' Spell Resistance, but the additions granted by the Drider template would still be a powerful addition, in which case the LA for a Half-drow would be a +3. Were a Draegloth to become a Drider, it would become an even more powerful creature than it already is, with the additional changes to ability scores, an increase in size to Huge (Long), and various special abilities. Its type would remain Outsider (Chaotic, Evil, Native), though Augmented, it would gain a -8 size penalty to Hide checks, a -2 size penalty to armor class, and a +8 bonus on Grapple checks. In keeping with the size increase, the Draegloth-drider's base speed would increase to 40, and its Climb speed to 20. Furthermore, its bite and claw damage would increase one step, to 2d6 for its bite, and d8 for its claws, and the primary and secondary damage from its poisonous bite would be d8 Str. Overall it would be worth a +4 LA. * * * * * * * * Sample Drider Character : This example uses a 6th level drow bard as the base creature (also seen here (http://hometown.aol.com/ebonkiasyd/jeryvvin.html) on my website in greater detail): Jeryvvin CR 10 Male drider bard 6 CE Large aberration (augmented humanoid [elf]) Init +5; Senses darkvision 120 ft.; Listen +13, Spot +4 Languages Common, Draconic, Drow Sign Language, Elven, Goblin, Undercommon ======================================== ===== AC 27, touch 15, flat-footed 22 hp 47 (HD 6) Immune sleep Resist +2 against spells and spell-like abilities, SR 17 Fort +7, Ref +11, Will +8 (+10 against enchantments) Weakness light blindness ======================================== ===== Speed 40 ft. (8 squares), climb 15 ft. (3 squares) Melee sarabande +9 (2d6+4+1d6 sonic/x2) and bite +3 (d4+1/x2 plus poison) or Ranged +2 mighty composite shortbow +1 +9 (d8+3/x3) Space 10 ft.; Reach 5 ft. Base Atk +4; Grp +10 Special Actions bardic music 6/day (countersong, fascinate 3 targets, inspire competence, inspire courage +1, suggestion), haunting melody Special Attacks poison Combat Gear potion of cure moderate wounds, potion of heroism, 3 potions of magic fang, scroll of cat’s grace, scroll of eagle’s splendor, wand of cure light wounds Bard Spells Known (CL 6th): 0 (3/day)-- detect magic, ghost sound, mage hand, mending, prestidigitation, read magic 1st (5/day)-- alarm, charm person, cure light wounds, feather fall 2nd (5/day)-- cure moderate wounds, increase virulence, invisibility Spell-Like Abilities (CL 6th): 1/day-- clairaudience/clairvoyance, dancing lights, darkness, detect good, detect law, detect magic, dispel magic, faerie fire, levitate, suggestion ======================================== ===== Abilities Str 14, Dex 20, Con 18, Int 18, Wis 14, Cha 22 SQ able to notice secret or concealed doors, bardic knowledge +12 Feats Exotic Weapon Proficiency (spiked chain), Haunting Melody, Weapon Finesse Skills Balance +7, Bluff +11, Climb +10, Concentration +8, Diplomacy +13, Hide +15, Jump +9, Knowledge (arcana) +9, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +9, Knowledge (history) +9, Listen +13, Move Silently +19, Perform (sing) +15, Perform (string instruments) +18, Search +6, Spellcraft +11 (+13 to decipher spells on scrolls), Spot +4, Survival +2 (+4 underground), Tumble +10, Use Magic Device +11 (+13 on checks related to scrolls) Possessions combat gear, shadowscale peytrel (belt w/ +10 land speed, +5 jump/move silently), drow house insignia (ghostharp), +2 mighty composite shortbow +1 plus 20 arrows, ring of protection +1, sarabande (+1 screaming spiked chain), sash of resistance +1, spellsinger ward (+4 shadow chitin barding), spell component pouch, strings of the spider (instrument of the bards, with Jump, Summon Swarm, Web) . ======================================== ===== Haunting Melody (Sp) Expend one daily use of the bardic music ability while singing or using some other Perform skill to cause opponents within 30 feet to become shaken for 9 rounds, Will DC 19 negates. Poison (Ex) Injury, Fortitude DC 17 (19 with increase virulence), initial and secondary damage 1d6 Str. ======================================== ===== Hook "I will sing songs of your pain long after I have shared my own with you..."
kinem 05-27-06, 11:34 PM	Actually that seems pretty good. I would add the following: Tauric Build (ex): The drider can use either medium size or large weapons without penalty. You might also consider adding some kind of curse. What it carries social stigma, it would seem that becoming a drider has plenty of mechanical advantages, so a power-hungry maniac (drow or PC) could want it. Maybe something like Anguish (ex): The drider is unhappy, giving it a -4 penalty on diplomacy checks. Also, you forgot to include a CR adjustment, perhaps confusing it with LA since you gave your sample creature a CR equal to its ECL. (ECL = HD + LA, while CR is different.) I would say a CR adjustment of +2 is about right, which would give your sample creature a CR of 9. With its high AC a CR of 10 is perhaps justified, but that is because he has fancy items that an average drider probably wouldn't.
Tethryn Lahralein 05-28-06, 01:06 AM	Well, the Tauric build note seems like an interesting idea... I'll keep it in mind. Thanks for the note on the CR adjustment... I tend to confuse them a little at times; the other thing is that CR for PC type characters is equal to LA anyway... As for the social stigma vs. the power build... it's not so much something a character or NPC -chooses- to do, as it is inflicted on them for failing their goddess, and being cast out of their society (and horribly changed to boot). Socially speaking, the only creatures that driders tend to associate with on a closer basis are other driders, and not often; very unusual circumstances dictate any other sort of encounter. As an offhand note, I'd say that any character or NPC who encounters them starts at a baseline unfriendly (and vice versa), and almost certainly hostile at minimum for a drow, half-drow, or draegloth... no sane member of dark elven society wants to have to deal with a reminder of what could happen to them if they screw up, and 9 times out of 10 (or more), the drider's feeling is mutual; they don't really want to deal much with a reminder of everything they lost. Any other considerations? *Something else I hadn't quite figured out was part of their climb ability, specifically moving and climbing in webs. Neither the drider, nor monstrous spiders, are mentioned to have any ability to do so w/o hindrance in the MM, last time I checked... Another thing is that, being part spider, they can presumably use webbing (at least for building a burrow, like hunting or trapdoor spiders), or in non-combat round activities like making their own silk for webs, traps, armor, thread for cloth or rope (bizarre but possible, look at the chitine or ettercap for example). I might try working on feats related to the drider template, like allowing them to use webs more actively (web throwing).
SOPI 05-28-06, 06:38 PM	Isn't there already a template for this in the MM? EDIT: Oh, it's not a template, just a monster. In that case, I agree with the changes that have already been made. Otherwise, nice template. Did you use the base 3e template from the website or start from scratch?
Tethryn Lahralein 05-29-06, 02:26 PM	There was a drider template introduced awhile back on the Wizards/DnD website, but it had a few differences in abilities, and it was meant to be used on any creature, not just drow who'd failed the test. That, and both the monster manual 'drider' entry and the savage species racial class only reflected a drider originating from cleric, sorcerer, or wizard spellcasting classes, with aberration base-race skills, skill points, HD, and saves. My template is a bit of a departure from those two ideas, more similar to the lich, or half-dragon/celestial/fiend idea.