A "bonehead" question? [Archive] - Wizards Community

A "bonehead" question? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ranger REG
11-30-03, 04:15 AM How to resolve a Dragon's head-butt?

I mean with all those scales and bones portruding around their face and forehead, I thought it could be just as useful as a bite attack or or a tail sweep.
MightyMightyThundarr
11-30-03, 03:15 PM It would be hard to both bite and headbutt in the same round though, and I guarantee the bite would do more damage :)

That said, I'd have it deal the same damage as a wing attack for dragons without horns, or a tail attack for dragons with horns.
Derren S.
11-30-03, 03:32 PM I would say for keeping it simple a headbutt is when a dragon tires to do subdual damage with its bite attack.
JustKim
11-30-03, 03:43 PM I would make it a feat for large or larger dragons, allowing them to headbutt as a standard action that initiates a bull rush (Moving the target only) as a charging creature, and may stun opponents up to one size category smaller for 1 round. I'd say a fortitude save using the dragon's standard DC is fair.

Damage as a tail sounds about right, including 150% Strength bonus. A dragon's neck is powerful, I can't really see it being as weak as a wing.

I don't think it's a good idea to add it to the list of standard attacks, because if you do where is the line drawn? Not every maneuver a creature is capable of should be an inherent natural attack.
AlienFromBeyond
11-30-03, 09:52 PM I don't think you should add at just like that, but maybe have it available as a feat for certain dragons. Black certainly comes to mind. There already is a feat in Dragon giving Rend, so I don't see what's wrong with giving another attack with a feat. And it's just cool to be a dragon nad have that many attacks...
Mage of Sembia
11-30-03, 10:31 PM There was a spell back in Dragon 260 that closed a creature's mouth, and it was especially useful against creatures with breath weapons and bite attacks, such as dragons. Even though it was second edition, if you brought it to third edition that would give the headbutt another use.
jagggar
11-30-03, 11:09 PM Headbutt would probably be useful for taking down a door or wall in a place where magic isn't functioning for one reason or another.
Ranger REG
12-01-03, 12:56 AM Yes, I know it's hard to do both a bite and a headbutt, but I mean there are a few functional similarities like reach.

I figure like the tail attack, it is a slam attack (I mean something that big and bony hitting you, that's not what you call subdual), which possibly can be used to ram an opponent to the ground (or let him fly back, if your tail is pre-occupied).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ranger REG 11-30-03, 04:15 AM	How to resolve a Dragon's head-butt? I mean with all those scales and bones portruding around their face and forehead, I thought it could be just as useful as a bite attack or or a tail sweep.
MightyMightyThundarr 11-30-03, 03:15 PM	It would be hard to both bite and headbutt in the same round though, and I guarantee the bite would do more damage :) That said, I'd have it deal the same damage as a wing attack for dragons without horns, or a tail attack for dragons with horns.
Derren S. 11-30-03, 03:32 PM	I would say for keeping it simple a headbutt is when a dragon tires to do subdual damage with its bite attack.
JustKim 11-30-03, 03:43 PM	I would make it a feat for large or larger dragons, allowing them to headbutt as a standard action that initiates a bull rush (Moving the target only) as a charging creature, and may stun opponents up to one size category smaller for 1 round. I'd say a fortitude save using the dragon's standard DC is fair. Damage as a tail sounds about right, including 150% Strength bonus. A dragon's neck is powerful, I can't really see it being as weak as a wing. I don't think it's a good idea to add it to the list of standard attacks, because if you do where is the line drawn? Not every maneuver a creature is capable of should be an inherent natural attack.
AlienFromBeyond 11-30-03, 09:52 PM	I don't think you should add at just like that, but maybe have it available as a feat for certain dragons. Black certainly comes to mind. There already is a feat in Dragon giving Rend, so I don't see what's wrong with giving another attack with a feat. And it's just cool to be a dragon nad have that many attacks...
Mage of Sembia 11-30-03, 10:31 PM	There was a spell back in Dragon 260 that closed a creature's mouth, and it was especially useful against creatures with breath weapons and bite attacks, such as dragons. Even though it was second edition, if you brought it to third edition that would give the headbutt another use.
jagggar 11-30-03, 11:09 PM	Headbutt would probably be useful for taking down a door or wall in a place where magic isn't functioning for one reason or another.
Ranger REG 12-01-03, 12:56 AM	Yes, I know it's hard to do both a bite and a headbutt, but I mean there are a few functional similarities like reach. I figure like the tail attack, it is a slam attack (I mean something that big and bony hitting you, that's not what you call subdual), which possibly can be used to ram an opponent to the ground (or let him fly back, if your tail is pre-occupied).