Post/Author/DateTime	Post
A Munkeys Uncle 03-31-04, 04:44 AM	Well who would win?
Will Brandiman 03-31-04, 04:46 AM	Asmodeus. Next!
A Munkeys Uncle 03-31-04, 04:57 AM	You sound pretty confident. Does this mean Juiblex wouldn't have a chance?
Will Brandiman 03-31-04, 05:01 AM	Yep. He'd be dead in seconds.
A Munkeys Uncle 03-31-04, 05:04 AM	Would you consider Juiblex next in line as the most powerful Chaotic Evil?
Will Brandiman 03-31-04, 05:08 AM	Jubilex is a fairly minor demon lord. He isn't even close to the 'big three' of Demogorgon, Orcus and Graz'zt. Asmodeus is the King of Hell and probably the most powerful non-divine being in the lower planes.
Mirtek 03-31-04, 05:11 AM	Originally posted by A Munkeys Uncle Would you consider Juiblex next in line as the most powerful Chaotic Evil? No, among the more powerfull, but still far from the top. Check out the Book of Vile Darkness. Jubiles is among the weakest demonlords. Graz'zt, Orcus, or Demogorgon could defeat him. Even Yeenoghu, also one of the weaker demonprinces, should defeat Juiblex.
A Munkeys Uncle 03-31-04, 05:11 AM	What about the higher plains? Would it be someone from Greek Mythology, maybe Ragnorok or Zues? And would this being (the most powerful) beat Asmodeus? If so would this particular being be the most powerful of all, or would something from another plain be able to give him a fight? Maybe a dragon... I haven't played any of this in about 22 years, sorry. There is a review of the book you mention and they only gave all of Juiblex's stats, simply amazing. WTH? http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/bovd_gallery/88161_620_39.jpg I'd kick its ass. jk. Seriously it looks to be a slime of some sort. I can't quite make out his form. There is no secret about this fellers form though... http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/bovd_gallery/88161_620_41.jpg
Mirtek 03-31-04, 05:19 AM	Originally posted by A Munkeys Uncle What about the higher plains? Would it be someone from Greek Mythology, maybe Ragnorok or Zues? And would this being (the most powerful) beat Asmodeus? You don't even need the most powerfull being. The beings who can beat Asmodeus with relative ease are of course the true deities. With them you don't even need the most powerfull of them, but even most demigods could defeat Asmodeus. Zeus, as a greater god, would utterly annihilate poor Asmodeus without having to fear that Asmodues could so much as to just give him a minor wound. Originally posted by A Munkeys Uncle I haven't played any of this in about 22 years, sorry. Note that Asmodeus did change during the various editions. He went from a "mere" archdevil up to a lesser god, in 2e was even considered a greater god, and lately back down to a "mere" archdevil again. Originally posted by A Munkeys Uncle :censored::censored::censored::censored: , I'd kick its ass. jk. Seriously it looks to be a slime of some sort. Of course he looks to be a slime of sort because Juiblex is a pool of slime. He's demonlord of slimes and oozes
A Munkeys Uncle 03-31-04, 05:27 AM	With them you don't even need the most powerfull of them, but even most demigods could defeat Asmodeus. Zeus, as a greater god, would utterly annihilate poor Asmodeus without having to fear that Asmodues could so much as to just give him a minor wound. I remembered Zeus being very powerful, for obvious reasons. Are there any Chaotic Evil that could take on a greater god or demigod? And how would others such as Demogorgon, Orcus or Graz'zt, how would they fair? Have there ever been such battles I wonder? I guess it would go against everything written... Note that Asmodeus did change during the various editions. He went from a "mere" archdevil up to a lesser god, in 2e was even considered a greater god, and lately back down to a "mere" archdevil again. Yes he was merely an archdevil when I viewed him last, as a greater god how would he have done against say, Zeus, Thor, or Ragnarok? Of course he looks to be a slime of sort because Juiblex is a pool of slime. He's demonlord of slimes and oozes Hence, that's why he's a big sissy :cool:
Mirtek 03-31-04, 05:34 AM	Originally posted by A Munkeys Uncle I remembered Zeus being very powerful, for obvious reasons. Are there any Chaotic Evil that could take on a greater god or demigod? And how would others such as Demogorgon, Orcus or Graz'zt, how would they fair? Have there ever been such battles I wonder? I guess it would go against everything written. There are dozends of evil gods of all ranks from demi- to greater god. Demogorgon would have a good chance against Asmodues, although his "only" CR 30 (as opposed to CR 32 Asmodeus) they don'T give each other much. And the higher you get, the less accurate does CR become anyway.Originally posted by wdarkk as a greater god how would he have done against say, Zeus, Thor, or Ragnarok? He should have been more powerfull than Thor and somewhat even with Odin. Would have been an interesting battle. Note that there wer no stats for gods in 2e, the manuals simply said that the power of gods is so great that it is impossible to quantify and all statistics are meaningless to true deities.
A Munkeys Uncle 03-31-04, 05:37 AM	Beh, they should have kept the stats in. Are we talking about Asmodeus with or without his Disciples?
ieattrollsforbreakfast 03-31-04, 10:53 AM	What about the higher plains? Would it be someone from Greek Mythology, maybe Ragnorok or Zues? And would this being (the most powerful) beat Asmodeus? The most powerful non-deity in the upper planes, as far as I know, is Zaphkiel, the Watcher. He is the lord of the Archons, and a batter between him and Asmodeus would be a very close one. There is a whole thread about it in the BoED forum here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=180595)
Shemeska the Marauder 04-01-04, 12:38 AM	Gotta love hypothetical fights between entities that would never fight face to face for various reasons. Ie. gods wouldn't fight Archfiends face to face 99% of the time either because of pacts between the fiends and the deities of their plane, or a deities fear of sparking a greater conflict between upper and lower planes. The last thing the upper planes want is some deity of the upper planes accidentally uniting the fiends of the lower planes in all out war against the celestials. Gods simply don't mess with the fiends by and large. The reasons for this are a bit nebulous, even in Planescape when such things were discussed and detailed. There just isn't much direct interaction between the gods, including the evil ones, and the Archfiends. They both seem to stay out of each others hair so to speak except for some notable exceptions (ie. Prince Levistus in Baator hedging in on the deific domains of Set and Sekholah)
cwslyclgh 04-01-04, 02:48 AM	heard of him. (unless you mean Mammon, lord of the third layer of hell... and he has never been that great)
Will Brandiman 04-01-04, 03:26 AM	Originally posted by A Munkeys Uncle You sound pretty confident. Does this mean Juiblex wouldn't have a chance? Checked the BoVD last night and it's even worse than I thought. Asmodeus, even if he resorted to brute force (which he rarely needs to do) would demolish Jubilex in about 2 rounds. He has 4 attacks/round, 3 of which will hit on a roll of 2+ and the other hits on a 3+. Each does 1d8+28 plus 4d8+20 (from an Inflict Critical Wounds effect), for an average of 282 damage each round. That would kill Jubilex in 2 rounds. Jubilex on the other hand has 1 attack which hits on a 10+ and does 3d8+21, 20 of which will be stopped by the Big A's damage reduction, for an average of 7 or 8 damage per round (as he's likely to only hit once very 2 rounds). He also does 2d6 acid damage per hit but Asomdeus has acid resistance 20 so that wouldn't matter. It would take about 70 rounds for Jubilex to reduce Asmodeus to 0 hp and then Assy will just invoke the Reverie of Nessus and fully heal himself. In short, Jubilex will change from an animated pool of slime to an inanimate pool of slime in about 12 seconds. And that doesn't even take into account spells and spell-like abilities as Jubilex can't even effect Asmodeus due to his Spell Resistance of 45!
Ceran 04-01-04, 03:32 AM	Ragnorok? Have I missed a god or being, or are you talking about Ragnarok? Because in that case, it would be hard to fight, as that's the word for the end of the world war in norse mythlogy ;) (and renewal of the world, after they've destroyed it)
Primus, the One and Prime 04-01-04, 03:34 AM	By the way. Ragnarok is not a person/creature/deity (as far as I know). Ragnarok is the apocalypse of Norse mythology. It is the "Twilight of the Gods" (The most used translation, though not the most correct) when the giant Loki and the wolf Fenris will burst their bonds and all fell things will be set upon the earth. The giants will ride to war, the fire giants coming from Muspellheim behind their leader Surt, and the frost giants riding into battle upon a ship crafted from the nails of the dead and led by Loki. Heimdall will blast his horn to signal the coming of the end times and the halls of Asgard will empty as the deities and their servants go to war. Jormungandr the World Serpent and Thor will slay each other in battle. Heimdall and Loki will also slay each other. The dark wolf Fenris will swallow Odin in one bite only to be destroyed by Odin's son, Vidar of the Iron-Shoe. Frey will fall for he gifted his magical sword to another, and all the rest will die. Then the great World Ash Yggdrassil will shudder as the serpent Nidhogg finally chews through it's roots and the nine worlds of the universe will collapse as the tree falls, and then they will be immolated by Surt and his flaming sword. And then from the ashes a new world will rise up. The World Ash will sprout anew and new golden halls will spring into being. The survivors, Vidar, Magni, and Modi, will rejoice as their fallen comrades Baldur and Hodur rejoin then. And a family of humans will appear, spared from the horrors of the war, and they will grow in this beautiful new world. But not all is good and happy, for in Nifleheim a new hall will rise up, a hall of death and corpses. And thus is ragnarok.
A Munkeys Uncle 04-01-04, 04:36 AM	I thought Ragnarok was the giant mech in Mech Assault? jk. Ragnarok was the battle, or something like that, I was thinking of the giant serpant of which was destroyed by Zeus I beleive, but I'm not sure. It was the serpant that Zeus drove a sword through it's head in the battle of ragnarok (armagedon basically) and the serpents bloods was poisonous acid, or something like that. I'll look into this serpent's name.
tiggrhoo 04-01-04, 05:28 AM	Originally posted by Will Brandiman Jubilex will change from an animated pool of slime to an inanimate pool of slime in about 12 seconds. :rofl:
Freefall 04-01-04, 11:58 AM	Zeus is Greek, Ragnarok is Norse. The World Serpent in Norse Mythology is Jormungandr. He and Thor kill each other during the battle. As for Asmodeus, as was basically mentioned here, in 3.5 just about anything that qualifies for True Deity status could take him. In 1E he seemed to be able to hold his own pretty well against lesser gods (at least, he looked pretty much on par with Tiamat and Bahamut, maybe slightly weaker than Primus), but now with Divine Ranks, it's just no contest. I'd personally feel inclined to make all of the Lords of the Nine, and a number of Demon Princes/Lords equivalent to lesser or greater gods, just so it's a little more obvious and less strange as to how relatively minor entities have managed to keep such absolute control over such major planes for so long. What the? When I read my post on the thread it says "absolute cuddly", but when I go to edit, it reads "absolute control" like it's supposed to. What the heck's going on?
A Munkeys Uncle 04-01-04, 01:48 PM	Thanks Freefall, I'd guess that Jormungandr would make mince meat out of Asmodeus. Is he a part of any D & D Monster Manuals?
Kain Darkwind 04-01-04, 04:23 PM	the the Just wondering if there was a bloody reason everyone is using teh.....was hoping it was someone messing with the censor....guess so. Oh, and on topic....Asmodeus. Not even a real fight.
Freefall 04-01-04, 04:25 PM	I dunno. I've never seen him stated anywhere, but I also don't have the old 1E Deities & Demigods. Of course, Jormunganr isn't actually a god. Neither are Garm or Fenris, who also kill some of the Norse gods during Ragnarok. In real mythologies there are plenty of occurences of monsters that aren't gods, but are of equal (and sometimes superior) power. Nowadays a lot of people take have a Christianized idea of what a god is, so whenever something has the "god" label attached to it, they feel that it must be one of the most powerful beings in the multiverse. If I'm sure if official stats for Eros made him weaker than a slightly advanced Titan some people would complain that he's too weak, even though Eros was never a heavy hitter. This is (IMO anyway) the same basic mentality behind not stating out the gods in 2E. It's stupid and inaccurate, but that's the way a lot of people feel about how "gods" should be.
A Munkeys Uncle 04-01-04, 04:35 PM	Tahnks.
Timewilltell 04-01-04, 06:58 PM	Nah, Asmodeus could take any devil or demon in one on one combat. He does have his limits, but the ruby rod he weilds is super powerful.
Dackad 04-02-04, 01:58 AM	Originally posted by Primus, the One and Prime And thus is ragnarok. Exactly why I love Norse myth. :D