A dragon's head into a helmet? [Archive] - Wizards Community

A dragon's head into a helmet? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Crimson Hellkite
06-08-04, 05:10 AM One of my PC's just killed an adult black dragon. He cut off its head and hallowed it out. He plans to use it as a helmet; how would you rule this?
SnowbearK
06-08-04, 06:18 AM Right...and I suppose he's an Ogre?

An adult black dragon's head is about suitable for a washtub.
Will Brandiman
06-08-04, 07:36 AM One of my players wanted to use a medium black dragons head as a helmet for his half-ogre. I looked at the minis we were using and figured the sizes were about right so I allowed it but there are no game benefits, it's purely cosmetic and for bragging rights.

An adult dragon on the other hand would make for a very large hat!
Jimmy_Groove
06-08-04, 09:49 AM Since dragons have a slightly smaller head-to-body ratio than humaniods a Large dragons skull would probably be right. I agree that it is purely cosmetic and should only be allowed if the DM thinks it is flavorful enough. Probably better just to have a helmut that is built in the style of a dragon's skull though.
SoldierOfFortune187
06-08-04, 10:00 AM I agree.

Just because you have something you could feasibly make into something else doesn't mean that it is actually functional as that something else.

I picture a hollowed out dragon's head (read: remove all the tissue and vast majority of bone, pop out the eyes) to be something like one of those large, all rubber halloween masks with the bad eye-holes. Not something in particular I want to take into a fight.

All the rules for building armor from a dragon's hide was provided in the MM, I believe, so its up to you really if you want to have them be able to harvest enough raw material to build a helmet (which by itself would have no practical in-game bonus save that "Cool" factor).
n-butyl lithium
06-08-04, 07:28 PM Helmets don't really contribute anything to the game; they're just assumed to be worn with certain armors. So it doesn't matter what you do, really. They're completely cosmetic as far as the rules are concerned.

I would allow the PC to attach the dragon's horns to a helmet that is shaped like a black dragon's skull or some other shape that the horns add to (requires a skilled and expensive armorsmith). This would make the PC more recognizable and probably give him a bonus to Intimidate checks as well as some Diplomacy checks (bonus with good dragons and their allies, penalty with black dragons).
TMPikachu
06-09-04, 07:06 PM Originally posted by Will Brandiman
it's purely cosmetic and for bragging rights.

My brother's friend's barbarian had a habit of trophey collecting similiar to that.

Exept he didn't collect heads, nope.

Genitals. (tribal custom or something, the manliest part of any man-beast to make a man even more of a man, y'now?)

wore it on a necklace, along with ogres or some other large beasties.
Oddly enough, he had a black dragon ***** too. (they must be a popular trophey)

It scared the hell out of villagers.

Maybe it could be enchanted (your helmet)? Would be characterful. It could also top off a matching set of Dragon scale lamellar.
Khaibit_Ema_Neteru
06-09-04, 11:08 PM I picture a hollowed out dragon's head (read: remove all the tissue and vast majority of bone, pop out the eyes) to be something like one of those large, all rubber halloween masks with the bad eye-holes. Not something in particular I want to take into a fight.

You can always pop the jaw bone, and have them look out through the mouth. much better.
Naiilo
06-10-04, 04:09 PM The beauty of DnD is supposed to be the freedom of doing ANYTHING. If he wants to do it, let him DO IT. If it looks goofy and doesnt fit after he makes it, oh well, he still made it didn't he?
Baelron
06-10-04, 07:49 PM The beauty of DnD is supposed to be the freedom of doing ANYTHING. If he wants to do it, let him DO IT. If it looks goofy and doesnt fit after he makes it, oh well, he still made it didn't he?

I say let him if he wishes to but only if it is in his characters attitude to do so and if it isn't then don't allow them to. If he does get to do it then I would say make him find a sorceror with appropriate level to do it and the sorceror has to have craft magic armor. and I would have him spend about 6000 just to have it done.
Elexsor
06-10-04, 08:37 PM I agree with Naiilo. However an adult dragons head is huge. An adult dragons head would never work as a helmet for a human oir even an ogre for that matter. If it was a small (wyrmling) dragon or very young dragon then that would be fine for a human. An ogre could possibly wear a juvinile dragons head. In the Draconomicon it has ratio pictures of dragons to humans. If you look at the pictures you can get an idea as to what would work for a human. Also don't forget that it would also depend on the type of dragon. Different dragons are different sizes.

If you don't have a Draconomicon these pictures offer a good example of an adult dragon's head compared to that of a human.

http://step.polymtl.ca/~coyote/picturesd/dragnlnc/lance12.jpg
That's in between a huge and gargantuan dragon's head (closeer to huge) hangin over Raistlin in his study (based on red dragon scale in Draconomicon).

http://step.polymtl.ca/~coyote/picturesd/dragnlnc/lance03.jpg
Large to Huge red dragon head (closer to large).
Crimson Hellkite
06-11-04, 03:42 PM Actually, he was planning on hallowing it out, and then covering the inner flesh with a heavy layer of mithral or adamantine.

What I'm asking is, since black dragons have big horns, should he have an advantage when trying to ram someone? Should it be considered a +1 helmet or something?
Crimson Hellkite
06-11-04, 03:44 PM http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/draco_gallery/75559.jpg

Look at the adult dragon's head.

I really think that it could fit on the character, seeing as how he's a half-giant.
TMPikachu
06-11-04, 05:06 PM It looks too big to me

the one before juvenile looks to be the right size though.
Elexsor
06-12-04, 02:57 PM It's your campaign so you can have the PCs do what you want however if you make the helmet +1 because of the horns then I am assuming you are going to define rules for headbutting. Like making it similiar to shield bash and giving it a typical offhand weapon mod. Also making it a partial attack or part of a full attack.
noshoes
06-12-04, 05:56 PM easy solution to fix the size problem

Shrink item and Permanency
Baelron
06-14-04, 06:16 PM Ok the part about him being a half giant would have helped in the first place since he is a half-giant I would think he could turn it into a helmet and I would give it the plus one but I would give him the minuses until he took a feat that would allow him to be proficient with it.
Pyriel
06-14-04, 07:20 PM there should be some kinda penalty with it too if its oddly shaped on his head. The horns could mess up the balance of it and tilt to one side making his vision impared during battle or it could just plainly get in the way in some cases. but resizing it magicly and permanancy would easily fix everything
werewullfe3
06-15-04, 10:13 PM You know, I think the skull of a large dragon would make an interesting front part of a breast plate. If the character is reasonablely tall then the tip of the snout should hang a little past the crotch.
Khaibit_Ema_Neteru
06-15-04, 11:03 PM Hmm...that would be really cool
Baelron
06-17-04, 03:30 PM My friend had that made for one of his characters and the DM drew it out so we could see what it would look like as best he could and it is really cool the horns of the dragon go up past his shoulders and extend backwards about 3 feet and the snout of the dragon was just passed his crotch so he still had his full mobility. All together the armor made from a dragon's skull looks awesome and gives some enchantment bonuses like resistance 5-10 on the energy type of the Dragon it was made out of.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Crimson Hellkite 06-08-04, 05:10 AM	One of my PC's just killed an adult black dragon. He cut off its head and hallowed it out. He plans to use it as a helmet; how would you rule this?
SnowbearK 06-08-04, 06:18 AM	Right...and I suppose he's an Ogre? An adult black dragon's head is about suitable for a washtub.
Will Brandiman 06-08-04, 07:36 AM	One of my players wanted to use a medium black dragons head as a helmet for his half-ogre. I looked at the minis we were using and figured the sizes were about right so I allowed it but there are no game benefits, it's purely cosmetic and for bragging rights. An adult dragon on the other hand would make for a very large hat!
Jimmy_Groove 06-08-04, 09:49 AM	Since dragons have a slightly smaller head-to-body ratio than humaniods a Large dragons skull would probably be right. I agree that it is purely cosmetic and should only be allowed if the DM thinks it is flavorful enough. Probably better just to have a helmut that is built in the style of a dragon's skull though.
SoldierOfFortune187 06-08-04, 10:00 AM	I agree. Just because you have something you could feasibly make into something else doesn't mean that it is actually functional as that something else. I picture a hollowed out dragon's head (read: remove all the tissue and vast majority of bone, pop out the eyes) to be something like one of those large, all rubber halloween masks with the bad eye-holes. Not something in particular I want to take into a fight. All the rules for building armor from a dragon's hide was provided in the MM, I believe, so its up to you really if you want to have them be able to harvest enough raw material to build a helmet (which by itself would have no practical in-game bonus save that "Cool" factor).
n-butyl lithium 06-08-04, 07:28 PM	Helmets don't really contribute anything to the game; they're just assumed to be worn with certain armors. So it doesn't matter what you do, really. They're completely cosmetic as far as the rules are concerned. I would allow the PC to attach the dragon's horns to a helmet that is shaped like a black dragon's skull or some other shape that the horns add to (requires a skilled and expensive armorsmith). This would make the PC more recognizable and probably give him a bonus to Intimidate checks as well as some Diplomacy checks (bonus with good dragons and their allies, penalty with black dragons).
TMPikachu 06-09-04, 07:06 PM	Originally posted by Will Brandiman it's purely cosmetic and for bragging rights. My brother's friend's barbarian had a habit of trophey collecting similiar to that. Exept he didn't collect heads, nope. Genitals. (tribal custom or something, the manliest part of any man-beast to make a man even more of a man, y'now?) wore it on a necklace, along with ogres or some other large beasties. Oddly enough, he had a black dragon ***** too. (they must be a popular trophey) It scared the hell out of villagers. Maybe it could be enchanted (your helmet)? Would be characterful. It could also top off a matching set of Dragon scale lamellar.
Khaibit_Ema_Neteru 06-09-04, 11:08 PM	I picture a hollowed out dragon's head (read: remove all the tissue and vast majority of bone, pop out the eyes) to be something like one of those large, all rubber halloween masks with the bad eye-holes. Not something in particular I want to take into a fight. You can always pop the jaw bone, and have them look out through the mouth. much better.
Naiilo 06-10-04, 04:09 PM	The beauty of DnD is supposed to be the freedom of doing ANYTHING. If he wants to do it, let him DO IT. If it looks goofy and doesnt fit after he makes it, oh well, he still made it didn't he?
Baelron 06-10-04, 07:49 PM	The beauty of DnD is supposed to be the freedom of doing ANYTHING. If he wants to do it, let him DO IT. If it looks goofy and doesnt fit after he makes it, oh well, he still made it didn't he? I say let him if he wishes to but only if it is in his characters attitude to do so and if it isn't then don't allow them to. If he does get to do it then I would say make him find a sorceror with appropriate level to do it and the sorceror has to have craft magic armor. and I would have him spend about 6000 just to have it done.
Elexsor 06-10-04, 08:37 PM	I agree with Naiilo. However an adult dragons head is huge. An adult dragons head would never work as a helmet for a human oir even an ogre for that matter. If it was a small (wyrmling) dragon or very young dragon then that would be fine for a human. An ogre could possibly wear a juvinile dragons head. In the Draconomicon it has ratio pictures of dragons to humans. If you look at the pictures you can get an idea as to what would work for a human. Also don't forget that it would also depend on the type of dragon. Different dragons are different sizes. If you don't have a Draconomicon these pictures offer a good example of an adult dragon's head compared to that of a human. http://step.polymtl.ca/~coyote/picturesd/dragnlnc/lance12.jpg That's in between a huge and gargantuan dragon's head (closeer to huge) hangin over Raistlin in his study (based on red dragon scale in Draconomicon). http://step.polymtl.ca/~coyote/picturesd/dragnlnc/lance03.jpg Large to Huge red dragon head (closer to large).
Crimson Hellkite 06-11-04, 03:42 PM	Actually, he was planning on hallowing it out, and then covering the inner flesh with a heavy layer of mithral or adamantine. What I'm asking is, since black dragons have big horns, should he have an advantage when trying to ram someone? Should it be considered a +1 helmet or something?
Crimson Hellkite 06-11-04, 03:44 PM	http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/draco_gallery/75559.jpg Look at the adult dragon's head. I really think that it could fit on the character, seeing as how he's a half-giant.
TMPikachu 06-11-04, 05:06 PM	It looks too big to me the one before juvenile looks to be the right size though.
Elexsor 06-12-04, 02:57 PM	It's your campaign so you can have the PCs do what you want however if you make the helmet +1 because of the horns then I am assuming you are going to define rules for headbutting. Like making it similiar to shield bash and giving it a typical offhand weapon mod. Also making it a partial attack or part of a full attack.
noshoes 06-12-04, 05:56 PM	easy solution to fix the size problem Shrink item and Permanency
Baelron 06-14-04, 06:16 PM	Ok the part about him being a half giant would have helped in the first place since he is a half-giant I would think he could turn it into a helmet and I would give it the plus one but I would give him the minuses until he took a feat that would allow him to be proficient with it.
Pyriel 06-14-04, 07:20 PM	there should be some kinda penalty with it too if its oddly shaped on his head. The horns could mess up the balance of it and tilt to one side making his vision impared during battle or it could just plainly get in the way in some cases. but resizing it magicly and permanancy would easily fix everything
werewullfe3 06-15-04, 10:13 PM	You know, I think the skull of a large dragon would make an interesting front part of a breast plate. If the character is reasonablely tall then the tip of the snout should hang a little past the crotch.
Khaibit_Ema_Neteru 06-15-04, 11:03 PM	Hmm...that would be really cool
Baelron 06-17-04, 03:30 PM	My friend had that made for one of his characters and the DM drew it out so we could see what it would look like as best he could and it is really cool the horns of the dragon go up past his shoulders and extend backwards about 3 feet and the snout of the dragon was just passed his crotch so he still had his full mobility. All together the armor made from a dragon's skull looks awesome and gives some enchantment bonuses like resistance 5-10 on the energy type of the Dragon it was made out of.