A few Outsider questions... [Archive] - Wizards Community

A few Outsider questions... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
AlanBruce
07-20-07, 08:41 AM Greetings. I have been reading a lot on outsiders lately because I may be using them in an upcoming campaign. Although my grasp on the rules is pretty solid, I would still like some clarification on the following, if possible:

1. The Leonal's Improved Grab ability.. is it limited to a Large creature, as per
the grappling rules, or can this medium sized Guardinal apply that move
on a colossal target, like the Tarrasque. His entry didn't specify a limit,
so it got me curious (not that he could pull it off, but still worth asking)

2. Outsider's ability to summon more of their own (particularly fiends). I know
they roll a % dice to see if it happens against their listed number of
attempts/day. In the fiend's entry on their Summon ability, they provide
a level equivalent to the Summon. Is this number for purposes of casting
such ability defensively ? Also, if it's a (Sp), can these summons
be Dispelled?

3. In lieu with number 2, the Yugoloth entry on their summonings list this
ability as an (Ex), rather than a (Sp) ability. Are we to
assume then, that Yugoloths can call forth more of their kind and the only
way to send them back is by traditioanl ways (death by the blade or
prolongued use of spells)? Also, their ability, being Extraordinary, is not
subject to being counterspelled or disrupted in any way. A clear and marked
advanatge over other outsider races that summon more of their kind.

Sorry if this isn't the right place to post, but being monsters (although from the Planes), I thought it would fit better here.

Thank you in advance.
runestar
07-20-07, 09:23 AM 1) It is still subject to this limit, as detailed in the improved grab entry in the MM. Basically, unless it explicitly states that this limit does not apply, assume that it still does.

In the fiend's entry on their Summon ability, they provide a level equivalent to the Summon. Is this number for purposes of casting such ability defensively ? Also, if it's a (Sp), can these summons be Dispelled?

Basically, it is treated as a summon monster spell of that lv. Thus, it is a spell of lv X for concentration purposes, the summons may wink out in a globe of invulnerability if they are low enough lv etc. And yes, they can be dispelled. As per the summon entry in MM, assume caster lv = fiend's HD.

3) Hmm...I never noticed that before, so I am not sure how to handle this. I will just assume that the duration of 1 hour still applies.
Sildatorak
07-20-07, 11:52 AM 2. It is for purposes of casting defensively and interaction with globe of invulnerability and such the like. It can be dispelled.

3. I think that this is probably an error on the part of the people writing the entries. I would treat it as an (Sp) ability just like every other summon since there is no precedent for yugoloth summons to be better. Heck, in 2e there was a 25% chance that a successfully summoned yugoloth would turn on the yugoloth who summoned it.
Shemeska the Marauder
07-20-07, 12:42 PM 3. I think that this is probably an error on the part of the people writing the entries.

With great irony in my saying it*, I'm convinced that it's an error that has been perpetuated by the archfiend of typos Lord CutNpAsTe.

*ironic, because I think I made the same oversight for that ability in the stats for the Dergholoth that'll be in Dungeon 150.
AlanBruce
07-20-07, 01:35 PM Regarding the Leonal's Protective Aura, someone asked me if the
Magic Circle vs. Good / Lesser Globe of Invulnerability combo was exclusive of each other. That is, the circle wards the guardinal against evil attacks, yet the globe wards him from any 3rd level or lower spell, regardless of the source. I'm inclined to say they both operate against evil attacks/spells only. Any light on this would also be very much appreciated.
runestar
07-20-07, 10:23 PM Magic Circle vs. Good / Lesser Globe of Invulnerability combo was exclusive of each other. That is, the circle wards the guardinal against evil attacks, yet the globe wards him from any 3rd level or lower spell, regardless of the source. I'm inclined to say they both operate against evil attacks/spells only. Any light on this would also be very much appreciated.

I am pretty sure the globe of invul works on all spells. Note that magic circle vs evil also has benefits which extend equally to all foes, not just evil ones (summon monster restrictions, supression of charm spells).

This has led to a lot of rules headaches though, like how a ghaele cannot use a large chunk of its SLAs and cleric spells because of its globe of invul...:(
Morwen
07-21-07, 01:35 AM This has led to a lot of rules headaches though, like how a ghaele cannot use a large chunk of its SLAs and cleric spells because of its globe of invul...:(

I suspect a Globe isn't supposed to stop your own spells, even though the description doesn't say so.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
AlanBruce 07-20-07, 08:41 AM	Greetings. I have been reading a lot on outsiders lately because I may be using them in an upcoming campaign. Although my grasp on the rules is pretty solid, I would still like some clarification on the following, if possible: 1. The Leonal's Improved Grab ability.. is it limited to a Large creature, as per the grappling rules, or can this medium sized Guardinal apply that move on a colossal target, like the Tarrasque. His entry didn't specify a limit, so it got me curious (not that he could pull it off, but still worth asking) 2. Outsider's ability to summon more of their own (particularly fiends). I know they roll a % dice to see if it happens against their listed number of attempts/day. In the fiend's entry on their Summon ability, they provide a level equivalent to the Summon. Is this number for purposes of casting such ability defensively ? Also, if it's a (Sp), can these summons be Dispelled? 3. In lieu with number 2, the Yugoloth entry on their summonings list this ability as an (Ex), rather than a (Sp) ability. Are we to assume then, that Yugoloths can call forth more of their kind and the only way to send them back is by traditioanl ways (death by the blade or prolongued use of spells)? Also, their ability, being Extraordinary, is not subject to being counterspelled or disrupted in any way. A clear and marked advanatge over other outsider races that summon more of their kind. Sorry if this isn't the right place to post, but being monsters (although from the Planes), I thought it would fit better here. Thank you in advance.
runestar 07-20-07, 09:23 AM	1) It is still subject to this limit, as detailed in the improved grab entry in the MM. Basically, unless it explicitly states that this limit does not apply, assume that it still does. In the fiend's entry on their Summon ability, they provide a level equivalent to the Summon. Is this number for purposes of casting such ability defensively ? Also, if it's a (Sp), can these summons be Dispelled? Basically, it is treated as a summon monster spell of that lv. Thus, it is a spell of lv X for concentration purposes, the summons may wink out in a globe of invulnerability if they are low enough lv etc. And yes, they can be dispelled. As per the summon entry in MM, assume caster lv = fiend's HD. 3) Hmm...I never noticed that before, so I am not sure how to handle this. I will just assume that the duration of 1 hour still applies.
Sildatorak 07-20-07, 11:52 AM	2. It is for purposes of casting defensively and interaction with globe of invulnerability and such the like. It can be dispelled. 3. I think that this is probably an error on the part of the people writing the entries. I would treat it as an (Sp) ability just like every other summon since there is no precedent for yugoloth summons to be better. Heck, in 2e there was a 25% chance that a successfully summoned yugoloth would turn on the yugoloth who summoned it.
Shemeska the Marauder 07-20-07, 12:42 PM	3. I think that this is probably an error on the part of the people writing the entries. With great irony in my saying it, I'm convinced that it's an error that has been perpetuated by the archfiend of typos Lord CutNpAsTe. ironic, because I think I made the same oversight for that ability in the stats for the Dergholoth that'll be in Dungeon 150.
AlanBruce 07-20-07, 01:35 PM	Regarding the Leonal's Protective Aura, someone asked me if the Magic Circle vs. Good / Lesser Globe of Invulnerability combo was exclusive of each other. That is, the circle wards the guardinal against evil attacks, yet the globe wards him from any 3rd level or lower spell, regardless of the source. I'm inclined to say they both operate against evil attacks/spells only. Any light on this would also be very much appreciated.
runestar 07-20-07, 10:23 PM	Magic Circle vs. Good / Lesser Globe of Invulnerability combo was exclusive of each other. That is, the circle wards the guardinal against evil attacks, yet the globe wards him from any 3rd level or lower spell, regardless of the source. I'm inclined to say they both operate against evil attacks/spells only. Any light on this would also be very much appreciated. I am pretty sure the globe of invul works on all spells. Note that magic circle vs evil also has benefits which extend equally to all foes, not just evil ones (summon monster restrictions, supression of charm spells). This has led to a lot of rules headaches though, like how a ghaele cannot use a large chunk of its SLAs and cleric spells because of its globe of invul...:(
Morwen 07-21-07, 01:35 AM	This has led to a lot of rules headaches though, like how a ghaele cannot use a large chunk of its SLAs and cleric spells because of its globe of invul...:( I suspect a Globe isn't supposed to stop your own spells, even though the description doesn't say so.