A grappling kraken [Archive] - Wizards Community

A grappling kraken [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Smergel
02-08-06, 03:32 AM I am slightly uncertain how Kraken works in a grapple. Assuming he fights one-on-one with a player character with an average grapple score (15-20), is this correct:

Kraken will probably hit with his first attack (dealing damage). He will then get a free hold attempt, which he cannot lose. He then deals constrict damage for that attack. He then gets grapple attacks for each of his remaining limbs (8 more), and each makes its normal damage plus constrict damage. All these grapple attacks is made with the same (high) grapple bonus, so the player will lose all of them.

All in all, Kraken deals 250 dmg or so in a single round, more or less automatic.

Correct?

-Smergel
Sh0ck-Wave
02-08-06, 07:54 AM I guess its a good thing that Kraken's are pretty rare then :)

Feats like the 'Close Combat Fighting' feat from Complete Warrior would be pretty handy against a Kraken given its high grapple bonus. But given that a Kraken is CR 12, and CR is rated as being against a party of at least 4 characters at full or near full strength and magic, to go one-on-one against a Kraken would mean your character would need to be much muchy higher then level 12 to even stand a chance. Kraken's are meant to be tough and formidable, and are meant to be able to sink entire galleon's and destroy their crew .. so anyone going against a kraken one-on-one really isn't meant to stand a good chance of winning.

If you wanted to play out that type of scenario then you would need to be able to give the character the benefit of choosing the grounds (pun) on which combat is fought. Taking flight, using improved invisibility, Haste, ranged attacks like Lightning bolts, etc.

In one of my games I had the boat the party was travelling on be attacked by a fiendish giant squid. Its stats were :
12D8 +48 (104 hits)
10 rakes @ +15 doing 1D6 +8 with 20ft reach
AC was 18 for the squid and 25 for a tentacle
Str 26, Dex 18, Con 18
Improved Grab, Grapple @ +25 and Constrict @ 1D6 +8
Smite good
SR 24
Resist 20 Cold & Fire
DR 10 / magic
Darkvision 60ft
CR 11

This was faced by a band of five 11th level characters on a boat.
The squid attacked the boat while they were sleeping so most of them were not even in armour. Naturally they all charged up on deck to see what was happening and were grapped and severly slapped around by the tentacles.
But how we killed it in the end was that the 9th level drow (ECL +2 to 11th) cast Ray of Enfeeblement on it and sapped its strength, which meant its grapple was no longer as powerful. The rest of the party was then able to escape the grapple and the cowards either dove off the side before the boat sank, or the brave one's ran to the edge and used ranged weapons and area spells against it like fireballs and lightning bolts (well fireballs initially until they worked out that fire didn't do much damage). Our stalwart paladin managed to rip off a few tentacles from it in melee combat aswell which severely limited it, but then again that guy can always roll well when he needs to :)
Two characters were also sea sick and fatigued which made it even more fun (hold back that vomit boys !!).

Got a bit distracted there, but I hope this helps :)
Raven Dark
02-08-06, 12:30 PM Sounds like you have it right, but the grappling rules with monsters are so ambiguous that someone may well disagree with my assessment. :(

At the levels in which you are fighting a kraken, grappling shouldn't be a problem for at least one character in the party. Rings of Freedom of Movement, the spell of the same name, and teleportation spells and items are all ways to escape such a sad fate. Being an aquatic encounter, it is probably a good bet that the heroes will start with Freedom of Movement already cast upon them too.

Woe to the lone fighter who fights a Kraken alone without grappler-begone.
mvincent
02-08-06, 06:51 PM He then gets grapple attacks for each of his remaining limbs (8 more), and each makes its normal damage plus constrict damage.In a standard grapple, creatures do not get all their natural attacks. They only get iterative attacks (if any) based on their BAB. From the rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/naturalSpecialAbilities.htm#rake)
"Normally, a monster can attack with only one of its natural weapons while grappling"

The Kraken may be better off taking the -20 to remain effectively ungrappled so it can use its other limbs. But even then, I don't think you can 're-grapple' someone you're already grappling... so the additional constrict attacks may not apply.

Krakens are usually intended to take on multiple opponents.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Smergel 02-08-06, 03:32 AM	I am slightly uncertain how Kraken works in a grapple. Assuming he fights one-on-one with a player character with an average grapple score (15-20), is this correct: Kraken will probably hit with his first attack (dealing damage). He will then get a free hold attempt, which he cannot lose. He then deals constrict damage for that attack. He then gets grapple attacks for each of his remaining limbs (8 more), and each makes its normal damage plus constrict damage. All these grapple attacks is made with the same (high) grapple bonus, so the player will lose all of them. All in all, Kraken deals 250 dmg or so in a single round, more or less automatic. Correct? -Smergel
Sh0ck-Wave 02-08-06, 07:54 AM	I guess its a good thing that Kraken's are pretty rare then :) Feats like the 'Close Combat Fighting' feat from Complete Warrior would be pretty handy against a Kraken given its high grapple bonus. But given that a Kraken is CR 12, and CR is rated as being against a party of at least 4 characters at full or near full strength and magic, to go one-on-one against a Kraken would mean your character would need to be much muchy higher then level 12 to even stand a chance. Kraken's are meant to be tough and formidable, and are meant to be able to sink entire galleon's and destroy their crew .. so anyone going against a kraken one-on-one really isn't meant to stand a good chance of winning. If you wanted to play out that type of scenario then you would need to be able to give the character the benefit of choosing the grounds (pun) on which combat is fought. Taking flight, using improved invisibility, Haste, ranged attacks like Lightning bolts, etc. In one of my games I had the boat the party was travelling on be attacked by a fiendish giant squid. Its stats were : 12D8 +48 (104 hits) 10 rakes @ +15 doing 1D6 +8 with 20ft reach AC was 18 for the squid and 25 for a tentacle Str 26, Dex 18, Con 18 Improved Grab, Grapple @ +25 and Constrict @ 1D6 +8 Smite good SR 24 Resist 20 Cold & Fire DR 10 / magic Darkvision 60ft CR 11 This was faced by a band of five 11th level characters on a boat. The squid attacked the boat while they were sleeping so most of them were not even in armour. Naturally they all charged up on deck to see what was happening and were grapped and severly slapped around by the tentacles. But how we killed it in the end was that the 9th level drow (ECL +2 to 11th) cast Ray of Enfeeblement on it and sapped its strength, which meant its grapple was no longer as powerful. The rest of the party was then able to escape the grapple and the cowards either dove off the side before the boat sank, or the brave one's ran to the edge and used ranged weapons and area spells against it like fireballs and lightning bolts (well fireballs initially until they worked out that fire didn't do much damage). Our stalwart paladin managed to rip off a few tentacles from it in melee combat aswell which severely limited it, but then again that guy can always roll well when he needs to :) Two characters were also sea sick and fatigued which made it even more fun (hold back that vomit boys !!). Got a bit distracted there, but I hope this helps :)
Raven Dark 02-08-06, 12:30 PM	Sounds like you have it right, but the grappling rules with monsters are so ambiguous that someone may well disagree with my assessment. :( At the levels in which you are fighting a kraken, grappling shouldn't be a problem for at least one character in the party. Rings of Freedom of Movement, the spell of the same name, and teleportation spells and items are all ways to escape such a sad fate. Being an aquatic encounter, it is probably a good bet that the heroes will start with Freedom of Movement already cast upon them too. Woe to the lone fighter who fights a Kraken alone without grappler-begone.
mvincent 02-08-06, 06:51 PM	He then gets grapple attacks for each of his remaining limbs (8 more), and each makes its normal damage plus constrict damage.In a standard grapple, creatures do not get all their natural attacks. They only get iterative attacks (if any) based on their BAB. From the rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/naturalSpecialAbilities.htm#rake) "Normally, a monster can attack with only one of its natural weapons while grappling" The Kraken may be better off taking the -20 to remain effectively ungrappled so it can use its other limbs. But even then, I don't think you can 're-grapple' someone you're already grappling... so the additional constrict attacks may not apply. Krakens are usually intended to take on multiple opponents.