A horrible experience in non-euclidian geometry [Archive] - Wizards Community

A horrible experience in non-euclidian geometry [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
King_of_Succubi
01-15-07, 08:34 PM What kind of monsters would populate a dungeon only Escher could have conceived of? I'm talking spatial paradoxes, strange gravitational habits, horrific traps designed to split the party up, etc.

The idea is that an epic level wizard with a good and/or deranged sense of humor obtained the resources to create his own demiplane, and built this dungeon to run adventurers through to see how far they get before they either die (Though I think I'm going to make him the kind of person that would pay for their true resurrections after their organs are thrown everywhere) or quit in frustration.

It's going to house two fairly powerful magic weapons, one extremely Lawful Good, and it's extremely Chaotic Evil counterpart, so I'm going to have some Archons and Demons their weapons, respectively.

I'm aiming for CR 10ish, so nothing above like CR 13.
TheCrawlingSpleen
01-15-07, 09:03 PM I'm kind of envisioning the Escher painting with staircases and arches and floors going every which way, so if your dungeon is different, this might not work, but an Elder Arrowhawk is CR 8, and it comes from the elemental plane of air, where gravity is subjective, so it should be prepared for flying around in the dungeon.

I'll post any other things I can think of later.
DebiHuman
01-15-07, 11:14 PM The Parrot-Ox. Okay, this is a bad pun stolen from "Parodox in Oz" by Edward Einhorn. http://www.hungrytigerpress.com/books/paradoxoz.shtml

Okay, now to the serious stuff:

I belive Call of Cthulhu had R'lyeh which was the realm of non-euclidian geometry. So you have things like the Hounds of Tindalos and Byakee, standard Lovecraftian monsters.

Anyone want to stat up the Wampus Cats, Greater Independent Race? I found it here:

http://www.shoggoth.net/article.php3?story_id=874

Throughout the Appalachian region of the American Southeast, the chilling shrieks, of the Wampus Cat may be heard in the night. Bloodthirsty monstrosities, they seemed filled with a palpable anger and hatred. Wampus Cats are known to mutilate and butcher entire herds of livestock, not to sate any sort of hunger, but for the utter pleasure of it. Folklore says Wampus Cats were once witches, but were cursed with an unholy, bestial form as punishment for pursuing secrets no woman should know.

Few that have come face-to-face with a Wampus Cat, however, would harbor any idea the monsters could have been once human. From a distance, they are mistaken from misshapen kangaroos, or overly large, grotesque monkeys (which lens the Wampus Cat its other nickname, the Devil Monkey). Up close, one can see the horrid truth. The head is something like that of a feline, holding baleful red eyes, and slavering jaws. The body is vaguely anthropoid, and covered in layers of thick, glossy fur. Beneath the layers, something mockingly like that of the human female form is hinted at. The Wampus Cat carries a bushy-tail behind its body, which constantly swishes angrily. While the monster can walk upright, it prefers to make astonishing leaps using its hind-legs. Both forepaws and hind legs conceal claws that could easily eviscerate a man. The monster is followed by a repugnant odor, a noxious mix of sulfur, and an animal in heat. Like the witches of folklore, Wampus Cats hunt in packs of three. A Cat will never be alone, her companions always watching nearby.

Because of folklore, and their vaguely female forms, it is rumored every Wampus Cat is female. How they procreate is a mystery; those locals in areas menaced by Wampus Cats will only mention, which a shudder, men disappearing in the woods, and hearing very satisfied screams of the Cats later in the night.

Another monster (same site) if anyone is up to the task:

The Pope Lick Monster, Lesser Independent Race

Named for the creek outside of Louisville, KY the monster is said to haunt, the Pope Lick Monster appears as something of a hybrid between man and goat. Like the satyr of Greek myth, the Pope Likc Monster carries itself on powerful goat-legs, covered in albino fur. The upper body is the grostesquely deformed torso of a man. The skin is alabaster, except in places where the flesh is tight over bone, which show black through the ghostly skin. The face resembles humanity, but it clearly not; the black eyes are too far apart, the nose too aquiline, and the thick jaw sticks out too far. Short, but sharp horns protrude from its forehead, just below the hairline. The hair atop the head is long, greasy, and matted, matching the fur on its legs.

The monster stalks a small creek and the train tressel that runs over it. The Monster will mimic the voice of loved-ones to lure victims onto the tressel, just as a train approaches. The victim becomes trapped on the tracks, forced to either by run-down by the train, or plummet 100 ft into the creek below. The Monster will harass hickers or young-couples parked at a nearby lover’s lane, hurling stones or making disturbing noises. The Monster will rarely attack victims; when it does, it attacks with a rusted, blood-stained axe or kicking with sharp-hooves. The monster prefers tormenting any who comes in its domain, getting a sadistic pleasure in the terror of others.

The origin of the Pope Lick Monster is unknown. There are rumors it was birthed from the unnatural union of a farmer and his goat. Or it may have been Shub-Niggurath’s “blessing” upon Her faithful. One story says the Monster was freak in a circus sideshow that passed through the Pope Lick area, during the early 20th century. The locals were very cruel to the Goatman. When he escaped during a destructive thunderstorm, he pledged to revisit the locals cruelty upon them ten-fold.

Creatures very similar to the Pope Lick Monster are said to exist in Texas, Oklahoma, and Maryland.

Special Effects and Attacks:
Mimic: The Pope Lick Monster can mimic voices, by spending one magic point, and simply calling out. The intended victim will hear the voice of a loved-one in distress. Those standing next to each other may hear different voices. The victim will be drawn to the voice, unless they can make a successful Idea roll.

Either of these critters might fit your campaign.

Debby
Return of the Flumph
01-16-07, 01:38 AM This sounds like one crazy mage.

Anyway, as others have mentioned, Lovecraft-style aberrations work well here. So do constructs and summoned outsiders, since a mage built this place, and maybe undead (if he's that kind of mage).

Anything with a Climb ability are Incorporeality fits perfectly.

Maybe something with long arms or tentacles that can reach around corners and stuff.
420
01-16-07, 06:10 PM What kind of monsters would populate a dungeon only Escher could have conceived of? I'm talking spatial paradoxes, strange gravitational habits, horrific traps designed to split the party up, etc.
H.P. Lovecraft's Cthulhu Mythos had a lot of architecture with impossible angles. Like a corner where the floor and two walls meet would suddenly change perspective and people would fall forever into it.

In that case you'll want to take a look at Lords of Madness which contains some Cthulhu type "Elder Evils" (pgs. 27-28) that could have created the dungeon. In that case the dungeon would be populated by aberrations. Maybe both common ones like beholders, illithids and aboleths but deeper down you can create your own Farspawn creatures. Maybe even have a portal to the Far Realms at the lowest depths of the dungeon!

-420
Milo HoBo
01-16-07, 09:47 PM Another idea for an actual thing you could incorporate into the dungeon is the hyper-cube. There was an article in the Dragon Compendium Vol. 1 about it. It would be really cool to do that thing.

As far as monsters, did you ever read the articles on the WotC website that were entitled 'You Craft the Creature'? They ended up with some sort of non-euclidian geometry monster. You could apply aspects of that creature to almost any monster and it would rock.
The Vorpal Tribble
01-17-07, 10:41 AM *grins*

Sounds like this fellow is just what you are looking for. May I introduce the Tohnn (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=692925)
Orchomenos
01-17-07, 11:13 AM What about a Living Reverse Gravity (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ls/20070115a) spell? As the creature engulf you, you are forcefully projected to the ceiling, before falling back into the ooze...

An Udoroot (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/psionicMonsters.html#udoroot) could be cool too. A strange plant grows out of nowhere in this twisted dungeon.
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/xph_gallery/33555.jpg. Suddenly some barely visible forces begin to hammer you and draw you closer to the plant...

A Rast (Outsider Fire creature with too many legs) or a Ravid (Outsider from Positive Plane that animate objects at will) wouldn't be bad. Or the Ethereal Filcher or Ethereal Marauder...

You could also create a (Giant) Squid with the Air Elemental Template, this creature would swim freely in the air and project Ink Clouds...
Critical_Failure
01-17-07, 12:17 PM gibbering mouther and chaos beast sound good, maybe in gangs if you dont feel like advancing them
zzakk2to2
01-17-07, 12:37 PM have the stairs constantly changing like in harry potter and add as much impossible room as you can have the outside look like a small shack floating a foot of the ground.
NerdNumber1
01-17-07, 07:16 PM Have most of the inhabitants experts in exploiting the chaotic aspects of the plane:
The non-euclidian geometry might make the shortest distance between two points a curved line or something else, give them a speed boost and give PCs randomly slower speeds and saves against disorientation.
Make gravity direction and strength differ from place to place, ranged attacks would be nigh imposible, unless you are a native, who might actually shoot better than on the material plane.
Things that look solid might not be and things that look gaseous might be solid, natives would use that for sneak attacks and hit and runs. PCs would just run into walls.
Everything should be chaotic, nothing lawful. Make the PCs expect a random chair to explode (look at the rod of wonder table for examples, but don't limit the madness).

I would not suggest any lawful creatures. Give all native huminoids strange quirks: extra eyes/fingers, etc.
Slagger the Chuul
01-17-07, 11:30 PM Another idea for an actual thing you could incorporate into the dungeon is the hyper-cube.

Or even a Gelatinous Hypercube (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7072618&postcount=18). :)

In a weird spatial environment, a cube-shaped creature even looks more like a geometric entity than the silly scavenger of 10-foot by 10-foot corridors. You can reinforce the geometric aspect by describing the creature as moving in exact dimensional directions.
Sleepwalker13666
01-17-07, 11:47 PM Energons, psudonatural creatures, prismatic ropers, Dark tentacles, and gibbering mouthers come to mind.
Thomar_of_Uointer
01-18-07, 01:37 AM Aberrations. Lots of aberrations. Heck, why not more aberrations? And if you want to save time while making each one different, here's some easy Hit Die progressions you can use.

http://www.kobolds-keep.net/Progressions.pdf

If you really want to enforce the strange geometries thing, try using hex grids during the adventure.
R.M.G.C.L.F.
01-18-07, 11:05 AM May I suggest the Grasping Cluster (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=58048), an example of something lovecraftian and betentacled taken and then rendered randomly in its personal frame of Nth-dimensional space?

A llurm (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=680141) might fit in, or a polyceran (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=493528) populace with class levels if you're going for the surreal angle.

A felkar (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=681981) wouldn't be troubled by the jutting surfaces and lack of objective gravity.
NerdNumber1
01-18-07, 04:42 PM Here's some more ideas:

Have each room follow different laws. Wild magic, improved magic, dead magic. Objective gravity, subjective gravity. Make them feel that each room is a different plane.
Try wrapping worlds (think packman or mobil ave. in the matrix).
Enphasize the noneuclidian geometry. EX: Two hallways, divided by a wall, appear parrellel. One is 5 miles long, the other is 30ft long. There are 2 doors near the end of each that connect the hallways.

I like the idea of masked, cloaked huminoids that don't speak or use an unknown, disturbing language. Let them be mysterious, and experts at exploiting the oddities of the plane. They walk on the walls more than the floor. I sugest homebrew, or otherwise unfamiliar creatures. Make sure that everthing is cryptic. Try giving things that they think they know and screw with it (try a werewolf that is healed by silver and harmed by cold iron).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
King_of_Succubi 01-15-07, 08:34 PM	What kind of monsters would populate a dungeon only Escher could have conceived of? I'm talking spatial paradoxes, strange gravitational habits, horrific traps designed to split the party up, etc. The idea is that an epic level wizard with a good and/or deranged sense of humor obtained the resources to create his own demiplane, and built this dungeon to run adventurers through to see how far they get before they either die (Though I think I'm going to make him the kind of person that would pay for their true resurrections after their organs are thrown everywhere) or quit in frustration. It's going to house two fairly powerful magic weapons, one extremely Lawful Good, and it's extremely Chaotic Evil counterpart, so I'm going to have some Archons and Demons their weapons, respectively. I'm aiming for CR 10ish, so nothing above like CR 13.
TheCrawlingSpleen 01-15-07, 09:03 PM	I'm kind of envisioning the Escher painting with staircases and arches and floors going every which way, so if your dungeon is different, this might not work, but an Elder Arrowhawk is CR 8, and it comes from the elemental plane of air, where gravity is subjective, so it should be prepared for flying around in the dungeon. I'll post any other things I can think of later.
DebiHuman 01-15-07, 11:14 PM	The Parrot-Ox. Okay, this is a bad pun stolen from "Parodox in Oz" by Edward Einhorn. http://www.hungrytigerpress.com/books/paradoxoz.shtml Okay, now to the serious stuff: I belive Call of Cthulhu had R'lyeh which was the realm of non-euclidian geometry. So you have things like the Hounds of Tindalos and Byakee, standard Lovecraftian monsters. Anyone want to stat up the Wampus Cats, Greater Independent Race? I found it here: http://www.shoggoth.net/article.php3?story_id=874 Throughout the Appalachian region of the American Southeast, the chilling shrieks, of the Wampus Cat may be heard in the night. Bloodthirsty monstrosities, they seemed filled with a palpable anger and hatred. Wampus Cats are known to mutilate and butcher entire herds of livestock, not to sate any sort of hunger, but for the utter pleasure of it. Folklore says Wampus Cats were once witches, but were cursed with an unholy, bestial form as punishment for pursuing secrets no woman should know. Few that have come face-to-face with a Wampus Cat, however, would harbor any idea the monsters could have been once human. From a distance, they are mistaken from misshapen kangaroos, or overly large, grotesque monkeys (which lens the Wampus Cat its other nickname, the Devil Monkey). Up close, one can see the horrid truth. The head is something like that of a feline, holding baleful red eyes, and slavering jaws. The body is vaguely anthropoid, and covered in layers of thick, glossy fur. Beneath the layers, something mockingly like that of the human female form is hinted at. The Wampus Cat carries a bushy-tail behind its body, which constantly swishes angrily. While the monster can walk upright, it prefers to make astonishing leaps using its hind-legs. Both forepaws and hind legs conceal claws that could easily eviscerate a man. The monster is followed by a repugnant odor, a noxious mix of sulfur, and an animal in heat. Like the witches of folklore, Wampus Cats hunt in packs of three. A Cat will never be alone, her companions always watching nearby. Because of folklore, and their vaguely female forms, it is rumored every Wampus Cat is female. How they procreate is a mystery; those locals in areas menaced by Wampus Cats will only mention, which a shudder, men disappearing in the woods, and hearing very satisfied screams of the Cats later in the night. Another monster (same site) if anyone is up to the task: The Pope Lick Monster, Lesser Independent Race Named for the creek outside of Louisville, KY the monster is said to haunt, the Pope Lick Monster appears as something of a hybrid between man and goat. Like the satyr of Greek myth, the Pope Likc Monster carries itself on powerful goat-legs, covered in albino fur. The upper body is the grostesquely deformed torso of a man. The skin is alabaster, except in places where the flesh is tight over bone, which show black through the ghostly skin. The face resembles humanity, but it clearly not; the black eyes are too far apart, the nose too aquiline, and the thick jaw sticks out too far. Short, but sharp horns protrude from its forehead, just below the hairline. The hair atop the head is long, greasy, and matted, matching the fur on its legs. The monster stalks a small creek and the train tressel that runs over it. The Monster will mimic the voice of loved-ones to lure victims onto the tressel, just as a train approaches. The victim becomes trapped on the tracks, forced to either by run-down by the train, or plummet 100 ft into the creek below. The Monster will harass hickers or young-couples parked at a nearby lover’s lane, hurling stones or making disturbing noises. The Monster will rarely attack victims; when it does, it attacks with a rusted, blood-stained axe or kicking with sharp-hooves. The monster prefers tormenting any who comes in its domain, getting a sadistic pleasure in the terror of others. The origin of the Pope Lick Monster is unknown. There are rumors it was birthed from the unnatural union of a farmer and his goat. Or it may have been Shub-Niggurath’s “blessing” upon Her faithful. One story says the Monster was freak in a circus sideshow that passed through the Pope Lick area, during the early 20th century. The locals were very cruel to the Goatman. When he escaped during a destructive thunderstorm, he pledged to revisit the locals cruelty upon them ten-fold. Creatures very similar to the Pope Lick Monster are said to exist in Texas, Oklahoma, and Maryland. Special Effects and Attacks: Mimic: The Pope Lick Monster can mimic voices, by spending one magic point, and simply calling out. The intended victim will hear the voice of a loved-one in distress. Those standing next to each other may hear different voices. The victim will be drawn to the voice, unless they can make a successful Idea roll. Either of these critters might fit your campaign. Debby
Return of the Flumph 01-16-07, 01:38 AM	This sounds like one crazy mage. Anyway, as others have mentioned, Lovecraft-style aberrations work well here. So do constructs and summoned outsiders, since a mage built this place, and maybe undead (if he's that kind of mage). Anything with a Climb ability are Incorporeality fits perfectly. Maybe something with long arms or tentacles that can reach around corners and stuff.
420 01-16-07, 06:10 PM	What kind of monsters would populate a dungeon only Escher could have conceived of? I'm talking spatial paradoxes, strange gravitational habits, horrific traps designed to split the party up, etc. H.P. Lovecraft's Cthulhu Mythos had a lot of architecture with impossible angles. Like a corner where the floor and two walls meet would suddenly change perspective and people would fall forever into it. In that case you'll want to take a look at Lords of Madness which contains some Cthulhu type "Elder Evils" (pgs. 27-28) that could have created the dungeon. In that case the dungeon would be populated by aberrations. Maybe both common ones like beholders, illithids and aboleths but deeper down you can create your own Farspawn creatures. Maybe even have a portal to the Far Realms at the lowest depths of the dungeon! -420
Milo HoBo 01-16-07, 09:47 PM	Another idea for an actual thing you could incorporate into the dungeon is the hyper-cube. There was an article in the Dragon Compendium Vol. 1 about it. It would be really cool to do that thing. As far as monsters, did you ever read the articles on the WotC website that were entitled 'You Craft the Creature'? They ended up with some sort of non-euclidian geometry monster. You could apply aspects of that creature to almost any monster and it would rock.
The Vorpal Tribble 01-17-07, 10:41 AM	grins Sounds like this fellow is just what you are looking for. May I introduce the Tohnn (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=692925)
Orchomenos 01-17-07, 11:13 AM	What about a Living Reverse Gravity (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ls/20070115a) spell? As the creature engulf you, you are forcefully projected to the ceiling, before falling back into the ooze... An Udoroot (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/psionicMonsters.html#udoroot) could be cool too. A strange plant grows out of nowhere in this twisted dungeon. http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/xph_gallery/33555.jpg. Suddenly some barely visible forces begin to hammer you and draw you closer to the plant... A Rast (Outsider Fire creature with too many legs) or a Ravid (Outsider from Positive Plane that animate objects at will) wouldn't be bad. Or the Ethereal Filcher or Ethereal Marauder... You could also create a (Giant) Squid with the Air Elemental Template, this creature would swim freely in the air and project Ink Clouds...
Critical_Failure 01-17-07, 12:17 PM	gibbering mouther and chaos beast sound good, maybe in gangs if you dont feel like advancing them
zzakk2to2 01-17-07, 12:37 PM	have the stairs constantly changing like in harry potter and add as much impossible room as you can have the outside look like a small shack floating a foot of the ground.
NerdNumber1 01-17-07, 07:16 PM	Have most of the inhabitants experts in exploiting the chaotic aspects of the plane: The non-euclidian geometry might make the shortest distance between two points a curved line or something else, give them a speed boost and give PCs randomly slower speeds and saves against disorientation. Make gravity direction and strength differ from place to place, ranged attacks would be nigh imposible, unless you are a native, who might actually shoot better than on the material plane. Things that look solid might not be and things that look gaseous might be solid, natives would use that for sneak attacks and hit and runs. PCs would just run into walls. Everything should be chaotic, nothing lawful. Make the PCs expect a random chair to explode (look at the rod of wonder table for examples, but don't limit the madness). I would not suggest any lawful creatures. Give all native huminoids strange quirks: extra eyes/fingers, etc.
Slagger the Chuul 01-17-07, 11:30 PM	Another idea for an actual thing you could incorporate into the dungeon is the hyper-cube. Or even a Gelatinous Hypercube (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=7072618&postcount=18). :) In a weird spatial environment, a cube-shaped creature even looks more like a geometric entity than the silly scavenger of 10-foot by 10-foot corridors. You can reinforce the geometric aspect by describing the creature as moving in exact dimensional directions.
Sleepwalker13666 01-17-07, 11:47 PM	Energons, psudonatural creatures, prismatic ropers, Dark tentacles, and gibbering mouthers come to mind.
Thomar_of_Uointer 01-18-07, 01:37 AM	Aberrations. Lots of aberrations. Heck, why not more aberrations? And if you want to save time while making each one different, here's some easy Hit Die progressions you can use. http://www.kobolds-keep.net/Progressions.pdf If you really want to enforce the strange geometries thing, try using hex grids during the adventure.
R.M.G.C.L.F. 01-18-07, 11:05 AM	May I suggest the Grasping Cluster (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=58048), an example of something lovecraftian and betentacled taken and then rendered randomly in its personal frame of Nth-dimensional space? A llurm (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=680141) might fit in, or a polyceran (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=493528) populace with class levels if you're going for the surreal angle. A felkar (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=681981) wouldn't be troubled by the jutting surfaces and lack of objective gravity.
NerdNumber1 01-18-07, 04:42 PM	Here's some more ideas: Have each room follow different laws. Wild magic, improved magic, dead magic. Objective gravity, subjective gravity. Make them feel that each room is a different plane. Try wrapping worlds (think packman or mobil ave. in the matrix). Enphasize the noneuclidian geometry. EX: Two hallways, divided by a wall, appear parrellel. One is 5 miles long, the other is 30ft long. There are 2 doors near the end of each that connect the hallways. I like the idea of masked, cloaked huminoids that don't speak or use an unknown, disturbing language. Let them be mysterious, and experts at exploiting the oddities of the plane. They walk on the walls more than the floor. I sugest homebrew, or otherwise unfamiliar creatures. Make sure that everthing is cryptic. Try giving things that they think they know and screw with it (try a werewolf that is healed by silver and harmed by cold iron).