Post/Author/DateTime	Post
eltate 09-05-05, 08:25 AM	Hi, guys I'm new on this forum, and i'm spanish too, so sorry about my english... :D The other day I was having a look to the Monster Manual, looking for some brief, dirty and fun encounter for my players group in Rukahan Daahl, the trasgoid city. Something like a pair of drunken bugbears (here they are traduced as "Osgos") and I realized thar a bugbear has CR 2, an an Ogre (in the spanish version they are near y the book) has CR 2 too... And, in my really modest opinion, an Ogre can kick my group's ass, an a bugbear could make them laugh... Could anyone answer this? Am I in a mistake? I' ll wait for your opinions Thanks to everybody for reading this up tu here... ;)
pita 09-05-05, 10:20 AM	1st thing: Welcome to the boards. 2nd thing: I think the bugbear is better because he is smaller, thus he can have an ambush on the group, or stalk them from behind, ETC. Second thing, he's smarter. No ogre would think about tactics other then "Ok, you run and hit." "What will you do?" "Uhh.... run and hit." And dont worry about reading your post. I've stood through posts that were 5 times this long, and im sure more then half the forum has too
Lazzmaniandevil 09-05-05, 10:27 AM	In my book (english 3.5), the ogre is a CR=3. So maybe there was a mistake in the translation, or it was change between the 3.0 and 3.5 versions, I don't know...
dok 09-05-05, 11:50 AM	You must be using the 3rd edition rules (versus the "3.5" rules) Let's look at how these two creatures differ... 1.) AC: the bugbear has a slightly better AC (17 vs 16) as well as a better Touch AC (13 vs 8) which matters because spellcasters often use touch and ranged touch spells. 2.) The Bugbear's saving throws are more evenly distributed (2/4/1) than the Ogre's. (6/0/1) 3.) Bugbears have a +3 to Hide and a +6 to Move Silently. Ogres, in comparison, have a -5 to Hide and -1 to Move Silently. One of these creatures can set up an ambush, while the other clearly cannot. In a straight-up "you-begin-combat-30-ft-apart-now-roll-for-initiative" fight, the Ogre is the bigger threat. But CR assumes that creatures will be able to use their skills and abilities; the Bugbear is CR 2 because its much more likely to sneak up and get a surprise round.
eltate 09-06-05, 05:14 AM	Oks, guys, I get the idea. Thanks a lot for clearing this point for me.