A More Accurate Paragon [Archive] - Wizards Community

A More Accurate Paragon [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Kerik
09-29-06, 10:17 PM When I read the paragon template in the ELH, it struck me as a terrible representation.:mad: Paragons are supposed to be models of excellence, but even in the most far fetched scifi and fantasy books I've read a creature doesn't spontaneously develop a massive vitality, resistance to fire and ice, damage reduction, SR, healing that fast, or any of the other ridiculously unrelated and overpowered abilities :coolcthul . It's the luck bonuses I despise most of all. Paragons are better because they have obtained superior attributes through breeding or otherwise, and gain a semi-instinctual nack for certain things because their subconcious minds are organized in an amazing way. The gods didn't just look down and say "Hey, let's be nice to that little guy."

So, anyway, to get past my pessimism (sorry), here's my suggested template.

HD: +1hp for 1d4 hd, and another +1 per step up the hd ladder.

Speed: +10'.

AC: 1-5hd +2 insight bonus, 6-10hd +3, 11hd+ +4.

Attacks: 1-5hd +2 insight bonus, 6-10hd +3 insight and +1 competence, 11hd+ +4 insight +2 competence. All attacks made with a melee weapon gain +1 to their threat range, including throwable melee weapons.

Special Attacks: +4 DC to all special attacks DCs, and +4 to attack rolls. Specialization based.

Damage: All damage rolls are made, but if they fall below the average damage for the die, use the average damage result.

Spells: 1-5hd +2 insight bonus to DC, 6-10hd +3, 11hd+ +4.

Saves: 1-5hd +2 adaptation bonus on all saves, 6-10hd +3, 11hd+ +4.

Abilities: +4 to Str and Dex, +2 to Con and Cha, and +6 to Int and Wis.

Feats: 2 bonus feats.

Skills: +2 competence on 20 skills, +4 on 9 skills, and +6 on 6 skills.

CR:? A good part of why I posted this.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht
09-29-06, 11:04 PM The DnD Paragon has been like this for years. It's actually been toned down since its first appearance back in 2e.

As for the template, arrange it a bit better and we might be able to help.
Kerik
09-29-06, 11:52 PM HD: +1hp for 1d4 hd, and another +1 per step up the hd ladder.

Speed: +10'.

AC: 1-5hd +2 insight bonus, 6-10hd +3, 11hd+ +4.

Attacks: 1-5hd +2 insight bonus, 6-10hd +3 insight and +1 competence, 11hd+ +4 insight +2 competence. All attacks made with a melee weapon gain +1 to their threat range, including throwable melee weapons.

Damage: All damage rolls are made, but if they fall below the average damage for the die, use the average damage result.

Special Attacks: +4 DC to all special attacks DCs, and +4 to attack rolls. Specialization based.

Spells and Psionics: 1-5hd +2 insight bonus to DC, 6-10hd +3, 11hd+ +4.

Saves: 1-5hd +2 adaptation bonus on all saves, 6-10hd +3, 11hd+ +4.

Abilities: +4 to Str and Dex, +2 to Con and Cha, and +6 to Int and Wis.

Skills: +2 competence on 20 skills, +4 on 9 skills, and +6 on 6 skills.

Feats: 2 bonus feats.

CR:? A good part of why I posted this.

Treasure: Triple Standard.

Uh, I don't know how else to change the template to better serve your needs, that's a carbon copy of how it's organizanized in the ELH. Bwar?:confused:
Silverthumb128
09-30-06, 02:36 AM gain a semi-instinctual nack for certain things because their subconcious minds are organized in an amazing way.

That's what the Luck bonuses are, though. They're instinctively that much better than the average.

I like the template, but it seems a lot like the Half-Celestial/Fiend templates. The bonuses feel more Above-Average than Paragon to me.

And I'm not sure what you mean with your HP bonus, "HD: +1hp for 1d4 hd." The rest of the HD after that would be getting +1 HP, too, wouldn't they? So why the 1d4? I think a flat Constitution bonus should suffice without this.

For Special Attacks, what does "Specialisation based" mean? You're specialising in special attacks?
Kerik
09-30-06, 02:36 PM That's what the Luck bonuses are, though. They're instinctively that much better than the average.

Uh, yeah, like you said, instinct. Instinct is far removed from the whims and random happenings of the universe, and thus is an insight bonus, which is not luck at all.

The bonuses feel more Above-Average than Paragon to me.

Precisely. I'm trying to develop something along the lines of superevolution, not spontaneous demi-deification.

And I'm not sure what you mean with your HP bonus, "HD: +1hp for 1d4 hd." The rest of the HD after that would be getting +1 HP, too, wouldn't they? So why the 1d4? I think a flat Constitution bonus should suffice without this.

What this means is, 1d4 hd you gain get an additional 1hp, 1d6 get an additional 2hp, 1d8hd get an additional 3hp, and so on. This bonus would apply to every individual hd gained, so for instance, if A paragon human lvl1 wiz decided to multiclass into cleric, he would get 1 bonus hp for the wiz d4, and another 3 bonus hp for the cleric d8.

Uh, yeah, like you said, instinct. Instinct is far removed from the whims and random happenings of the universe, and thus is an insight bonus.

For Special Attacks, what does "Specialisation based" mean? You're specialising in special attacks?

Ah, no, I just couldn't come up with a better term for the bonus. Simply put, the paragon in question has developed a much better proficiency with and knowledge of how its special attacks work, making it much more effective in its useage.

Other questions?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kerik 09-29-06, 10:17 PM	When I read the paragon template in the ELH, it struck me as a terrible representation.:mad: Paragons are supposed to be models of excellence, but even in the most far fetched scifi and fantasy books I've read a creature doesn't spontaneously develop a massive vitality, resistance to fire and ice, damage reduction, SR, healing that fast, or any of the other ridiculously unrelated and overpowered abilities :coolcthul . It's the luck bonuses I despise most of all. Paragons are better because they have obtained superior attributes through breeding or otherwise, and gain a semi-instinctual nack for certain things because their subconcious minds are organized in an amazing way. The gods didn't just look down and say "Hey, let's be nice to that little guy." So, anyway, to get past my pessimism (sorry), here's my suggested template. HD: +1hp for 1d4 hd, and another +1 per step up the hd ladder. Speed: +10'. AC: 1-5hd +2 insight bonus, 6-10hd +3, 11hd+ +4. Attacks: 1-5hd +2 insight bonus, 6-10hd +3 insight and +1 competence, 11hd+ +4 insight +2 competence. All attacks made with a melee weapon gain +1 to their threat range, including throwable melee weapons. Special Attacks: +4 DC to all special attacks DCs, and +4 to attack rolls. Specialization based. Damage: All damage rolls are made, but if they fall below the average damage for the die, use the average damage result. Spells: 1-5hd +2 insight bonus to DC, 6-10hd +3, 11hd+ +4. Saves: 1-5hd +2 adaptation bonus on all saves, 6-10hd +3, 11hd+ +4. Abilities: +4 to Str and Dex, +2 to Con and Cha, and +6 to Int and Wis. Feats: 2 bonus feats. Skills: +2 competence on 20 skills, +4 on 9 skills, and +6 on 6 skills. CR:? A good part of why I posted this.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 09-29-06, 11:04 PM	The DnD Paragon has been like this for years. It's actually been toned down since its first appearance back in 2e. As for the template, arrange it a bit better and we might be able to help.
Kerik 09-29-06, 11:52 PM	HD: +1hp for 1d4 hd, and another +1 per step up the hd ladder. Speed: +10'. AC: 1-5hd +2 insight bonus, 6-10hd +3, 11hd+ +4. Attacks: 1-5hd +2 insight bonus, 6-10hd +3 insight and +1 competence, 11hd+ +4 insight +2 competence. All attacks made with a melee weapon gain +1 to their threat range, including throwable melee weapons. Damage: All damage rolls are made, but if they fall below the average damage for the die, use the average damage result. Special Attacks: +4 DC to all special attacks DCs, and +4 to attack rolls. Specialization based. Spells and Psionics: 1-5hd +2 insight bonus to DC, 6-10hd +3, 11hd+ +4. Saves: 1-5hd +2 adaptation bonus on all saves, 6-10hd +3, 11hd+ +4. Abilities: +4 to Str and Dex, +2 to Con and Cha, and +6 to Int and Wis. Skills: +2 competence on 20 skills, +4 on 9 skills, and +6 on 6 skills. Feats: 2 bonus feats. CR:? A good part of why I posted this. Treasure: Triple Standard. Uh, I don't know how else to change the template to better serve your needs, that's a carbon copy of how it's organizanized in the ELH. Bwar?:confused:
Silverthumb128 09-30-06, 02:36 AM	gain a semi-instinctual nack for certain things because their subconcious minds are organized in an amazing way. That's what the Luck bonuses are, though. They're instinctively that much better than the average. I like the template, but it seems a lot like the Half-Celestial/Fiend templates. The bonuses feel more Above-Average than Paragon to me. And I'm not sure what you mean with your HP bonus, "HD: +1hp for 1d4 hd." The rest of the HD after that would be getting +1 HP, too, wouldn't they? So why the 1d4? I think a flat Constitution bonus should suffice without this. For Special Attacks, what does "Specialisation based" mean? You're specialising in special attacks?
Kerik 09-30-06, 02:36 PM	That's what the Luck bonuses are, though. They're instinctively that much better than the average. Uh, yeah, like you said, instinct. Instinct is far removed from the whims and random happenings of the universe, and thus is an insight bonus, which is not luck at all. The bonuses feel more Above-Average than Paragon to me. Precisely. I'm trying to develop something along the lines of superevolution, not spontaneous demi-deification. And I'm not sure what you mean with your HP bonus, "HD: +1hp for 1d4 hd." The rest of the HD after that would be getting +1 HP, too, wouldn't they? So why the 1d4? I think a flat Constitution bonus should suffice without this. What this means is, 1d4 hd you gain get an additional 1hp, 1d6 get an additional 2hp, 1d8hd get an additional 3hp, and so on. This bonus would apply to every individual hd gained, so for instance, if A paragon human lvl1 wiz decided to multiclass into cleric, he would get 1 bonus hp for the wiz d4, and another 3 bonus hp for the cleric d8. Uh, yeah, like you said, instinct. Instinct is far removed from the whims and random happenings of the universe, and thus is an insight bonus. For Special Attacks, what does "Specialisation based" mean? You're specialising in special attacks? Ah, no, I just couldn't come up with a better term for the bonus. Simply put, the paragon in question has developed a much better proficiency with and knowledge of how its special attacks work, making it much more effective in its useage. Other questions?