A question about dragon hoards [Archive] - Wizards Community

A question about dragon hoards [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
BOK2
10-30-04, 11:03 AM A party of adventurers slay a dragon and takes it's hoard, which consists of coins, gems, art objects and magical stuff (the works).

Now, we all assume that the dragon got all it's wealth by raiding elves, dwarves, humans and such, but during very ancient times where do dragons get it's hoard. I mean dragons are one of the oldest of races and they were probably there before anyone else right, so how do the earlier dragon's amass their hoard if no one was around to mint coins, cut gems, make objects of art and enchant items. I don't think they made it themselves bec. all they do is sleep and eat a heard of deer every decade or so. :)
DarQuing
10-30-04, 11:21 AM Perhaps there were other 'draconic' races that were servants of the earliest true dragons to make such items for them? Its up to you to create the backstory of dragons. Sounds to me like you might have a campaign waiting to be written. :D
green_yawgmoth
10-30-04, 12:00 PM I don't think they made it themselves bec. all they do is sleep and eat a heard of deer every decade or so. :)Why not? They have plenty of feats, more than enough time and xp, and those sorcerer levels aren't there just to look pretty. :P

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
BOK2
10-30-04, 08:20 PM They don't make coins bec they don't need them to buy stufff, which is also the case for the rest of the treasure you find in a dragon's hoard. They just collect them, sure they can gain the skill to make these items but they dont have a reason to do so, I mean humans learn to make coins bec of the evolving economy and they cut gems and made art objects and such bec they could sell them. :)
green_yawgmoth
10-30-04, 10:29 PM They don't make coins bec they don't need them to buy stufff, which is also the case for the rest of the treasure you find in a dragon's hoard. They just collect them, sure they can gain the skill to make these items but they dont have a reason to do so, I mean humans learn to make coins bec of the evolving economy and they cut gems and made art objects and such bec they could sell them. :)Dragons like power. Magic items, especially ability-enhancing ones, would be very fitting for a dragon to make, and well within its means. What intelligent dragon wouldn't want +6 to all of his stats? Or have a few potions for use after a battle with a rival dragon? And who's to say there couln't be a draconic society minting coins, etc. They're intelligent, they'd probably like a bit of conversation with something other than the voices in their head. I hate to say it so bluntly, but your idea of dragons is way off. They aren't lethargic, dull-witted eating machines - they're smart, articulate, and very long-lived creatures of great might, both physical and magical.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Rinian2
11-06-04, 02:07 AM If your players are going to go up against any dragon, even a young one, it's a very good idea to roll up the treasure first.

Over the years, I've played lots of games where the treasure was rolled up after the creature was dead. And, surprise, surprise, in the hoard was an item that it would definitely known the properties of, and it most definitely would have used it in the fight.

So, with a bit of preplanning, any encounter with a dragon automatically gives it some history.

As far as your original question:So how do the earlier dragons amass their hoard if no one was around to mint coins, cut gems, make objects of art and enchant items?I think that in any dragon's hoard there should be some valueless items.

I mean think about 'Modern Art'. As far as I can see, those canvases covered with childish splashes of paint have no value whatsoever. But, others see what I miss, and can quite comfortably charge 1.3 million bucks for such stuff.

Currency is similar, paper money didn't exist (except in the form of IOUs) in the past. Why couldn't the people of the past have used different kinds of money from what is usual?

If, in your game there was no-one around to create such things however, I'd suggest the dragon would have collected whatever attracted its attention. The average dragon doesn't just collect things because they're valuable, but rather because they enjoy looking at them. (Like when they kidnap princesses and village maidens!)
Mithral Icesilver
11-06-04, 02:56 PM And some dragons have the oddest tastes. There's a quote from a gold dragon at the beginning of the "Why do dragons collect treasure" section of Chapter 1 of the Draconomicon - "Dragons collect treasure mainly for its beauty. You don't think there can be too much beauty, do you? Besides, some treasure is very good eating."

Dragons live long enough that some of them develop odd habits. There's probably quite a few dragons whose hoards contain mostly interesting stones and bits of driftwood and shells and suchlike. Many dragons delve deep underground; it stands to reason that some of them should find out there are nice sparkly rocks below the ground and think, "hey, those little creatures we like to help, order around, and/or occasionally terrorize would love these! We can even melt some of this metal and cut some of these rocks and make small disks and shiny gems to give them/bribe them with!"

And entire civilizations of completely alien creatures could have developed over the millenia before most humanoids showed up on the scene. Squid-people, insect-men, bipedal reptiles.
RavinRay
11-06-04, 04:20 PM As Mithral Icesilver pointed out, dragons have a different mindset from humanoids. What is attractive to them might not be so to other races.

That said, the first dragons would have faced a situation like the our ancestors during paleolithic or neolithic times - there were no worked gemstones, metalcraft and the like, but uncut gemstones may have caught their fancy. Additionally, especially if they took skill points in any craft skill and could assume a form with a manipulative hand, they could then have created jewelry, woodcarvings, and other treasure.

As an alternative, the deities in your world could have seeded the world with treasures that simply need to be found - according to irda or high ogre writings in Ansalon (Dragonlance), the forger of the world Reorx spent a lot of time creating and forging jewelry and metalwork and, when he had no need of them, just cast them away, in the form of shooting stars. What if they survived and hit the ground? A careless god like that would be a godsend (pun intended) to the first dragons. ;)
Kursk
11-06-04, 04:52 PM In my world dragons haven't been around longer than elves or dwarves. But as above there has always been nice things around to collect. Pearls, crystals, etc.
01d55
11-07-04, 01:57 AM And some dragons have the oddest tastes. There's a quote from a gold dragon at the beginning of the "Why do dragons collect treasure" section of Chapter 1 of the Draconomicon - "Dragons collect treasure mainly for its beauty. You don't think there can be too much beauty, do you? Besides, some treasure is very good eating."

There's nothing odd about that at all. Gold Dragons usually prefer to eat gemstones (as well as using them for luck bonus.) Hence, their Detect Gems ability. IIRC, Bronze dragons eat pearls.
Wayward Son
11-08-04, 10:44 AM There's nothing odd about that at all. Gold Dragons usually prefer to eat gemstones (as well as using them for luck bonus.) Hence, their Detect Gems ability. IIRC, Bronze dragons eat pearls.
Indeed. How else do you think a dragon survives for centuries in a deep, forgotten dungeon? They can eat the walls of the cave if they have to. Anything, animal, vegetable or mineral, can be digested in a dragon's belly and converted to the elemental power that sustains them. (Remember that true dragons all carry an elemental subtype, which tells you the type of elemental power that they use.)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
BOK2 10-30-04, 11:03 AM	A party of adventurers slay a dragon and takes it's hoard, which consists of coins, gems, art objects and magical stuff (the works). Now, we all assume that the dragon got all it's wealth by raiding elves, dwarves, humans and such, but during very ancient times where do dragons get it's hoard. I mean dragons are one of the oldest of races and they were probably there before anyone else right, so how do the earlier dragon's amass their hoard if no one was around to mint coins, cut gems, make objects of art and enchant items. I don't think they made it themselves bec. all they do is sleep and eat a heard of deer every decade or so. :)
DarQuing 10-30-04, 11:21 AM	Perhaps there were other 'draconic' races that were servants of the earliest true dragons to make such items for them? Its up to you to create the backstory of dragons. Sounds to me like you might have a campaign waiting to be written. :D
green_yawgmoth 10-30-04, 12:00 PM	I don't think they made it themselves bec. all they do is sleep and eat a heard of deer every decade or so. :)Why not? They have plenty of feats, more than enough time and xp, and those sorcerer levels aren't there just to look pretty. :P http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
BOK2 10-30-04, 08:20 PM	They don't make coins bec they don't need them to buy stufff, which is also the case for the rest of the treasure you find in a dragon's hoard. They just collect them, sure they can gain the skill to make these items but they dont have a reason to do so, I mean humans learn to make coins bec of the evolving economy and they cut gems and made art objects and such bec they could sell them. :)
green_yawgmoth 10-30-04, 10:29 PM	They don't make coins bec they don't need them to buy stufff, which is also the case for the rest of the treasure you find in a dragon's hoard. They just collect them, sure they can gain the skill to make these items but they dont have a reason to do so, I mean humans learn to make coins bec of the evolving economy and they cut gems and made art objects and such bec they could sell them. :)Dragons like power. Magic items, especially ability-enhancing ones, would be very fitting for a dragon to make, and well within its means. What intelligent dragon wouldn't want +6 to all of his stats? Or have a few potions for use after a battle with a rival dragon? And who's to say there couln't be a draconic society minting coins, etc. They're intelligent, they'd probably like a bit of conversation with something other than the voices in their head. I hate to say it so bluntly, but your idea of dragons is way off. They aren't lethargic, dull-witted eating machines - they're smart, articulate, and very long-lived creatures of great might, both physical and magical. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Rinian2 11-06-04, 02:07 AM	If your players are going to go up against any dragon, even a young one, it's a very good idea to roll up the treasure first. Over the years, I've played lots of games where the treasure was rolled up after the creature was dead. And, surprise, surprise, in the hoard was an item that it would definitely known the properties of, and it most definitely would have used it in the fight. So, with a bit of preplanning, any encounter with a dragon automatically gives it some history. As far as your original question:So how do the earlier dragons amass their hoard if no one was around to mint coins, cut gems, make objects of art and enchant items?I think that in any dragon's hoard there should be some valueless items. I mean think about 'Modern Art'. As far as I can see, those canvases covered with childish splashes of paint have no value whatsoever. But, others see what I miss, and can quite comfortably charge 1.3 million bucks for such stuff. Currency is similar, paper money didn't exist (except in the form of IOUs) in the past. Why couldn't the people of the past have used different kinds of money from what is usual? If, in your game there was no-one around to create such things however, I'd suggest the dragon would have collected whatever attracted its attention. The average dragon doesn't just collect things because they're valuable, but rather because they enjoy looking at them. (Like when they kidnap princesses and village maidens!)
Mithral Icesilver 11-06-04, 02:56 PM	And some dragons have the oddest tastes. There's a quote from a gold dragon at the beginning of the "Why do dragons collect treasure" section of Chapter 1 of the Draconomicon - "Dragons collect treasure mainly for its beauty. You don't think there can be too much beauty, do you? Besides, some treasure is very good eating." Dragons live long enough that some of them develop odd habits. There's probably quite a few dragons whose hoards contain mostly interesting stones and bits of driftwood and shells and suchlike. Many dragons delve deep underground; it stands to reason that some of them should find out there are nice sparkly rocks below the ground and think, "hey, those little creatures we like to help, order around, and/or occasionally terrorize would love these! We can even melt some of this metal and cut some of these rocks and make small disks and shiny gems to give them/bribe them with!" And entire civilizations of completely alien creatures could have developed over the millenia before most humanoids showed up on the scene. Squid-people, insect-men, bipedal reptiles.
RavinRay 11-06-04, 04:20 PM	As Mithral Icesilver pointed out, dragons have a different mindset from humanoids. What is attractive to them might not be so to other races. That said, the first dragons would have faced a situation like the our ancestors during paleolithic or neolithic times - there were no worked gemstones, metalcraft and the like, but uncut gemstones may have caught their fancy. Additionally, especially if they took skill points in any craft skill and could assume a form with a manipulative hand, they could then have created jewelry, woodcarvings, and other treasure. As an alternative, the deities in your world could have seeded the world with treasures that simply need to be found - according to irda or high ogre writings in Ansalon (Dragonlance), the forger of the world Reorx spent a lot of time creating and forging jewelry and metalwork and, when he had no need of them, just cast them away, in the form of shooting stars. What if they survived and hit the ground? A careless god like that would be a godsend (pun intended) to the first dragons. ;)
Kursk 11-06-04, 04:52 PM	In my world dragons haven't been around longer than elves or dwarves. But as above there has always been nice things around to collect. Pearls, crystals, etc.
01d55 11-07-04, 01:57 AM	And some dragons have the oddest tastes. There's a quote from a gold dragon at the beginning of the "Why do dragons collect treasure" section of Chapter 1 of the Draconomicon - "Dragons collect treasure mainly for its beauty. You don't think there can be too much beauty, do you? Besides, some treasure is very good eating." There's nothing odd about that at all. Gold Dragons usually prefer to eat gemstones (as well as using them for luck bonus.) Hence, their Detect Gems ability. IIRC, Bronze dragons eat pearls.
Wayward Son 11-08-04, 10:44 AM	There's nothing odd about that at all. Gold Dragons usually prefer to eat gemstones (as well as using them for luck bonus.) Hence, their Detect Gems ability. IIRC, Bronze dragons eat pearls. Indeed. How else do you think a dragon survives for centuries in a deep, forgotten dungeon? They can eat the walls of the cave if they have to. Anything, animal, vegetable or mineral, can be digested in a dragon's belly and converted to the elemental power that sustains them. (Remember that true dragons all carry an elemental subtype, which tells you the type of elemental power that they use.)