A question about templates [Archive] - Wizards Community

A question about templates [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Remoan
09-02-03, 12:18 AM (excuse this ahead of time if I'm in the wrong section, I'm still a bit rusty with this message board)

So here goes...

I understand that when you are applying a template to a character, such as making it a powerful race (say a drow for simplicities sake) you have a level adjustment that affects the characters level versus his actual xp (as in 3,000 xp for a level 1). Also, templates that are applied over that also usually have a similar affect (such as making the character a vampire, which has it's own lvl adjustment on top.) I understand all that just fine that they apply when your making a character, but what would happen if the template was added in game, say by a class bonus? If you've ever used the ultimate prestige class book, you might have seen the scion class (divine prestige class). At the top of the class, you become a half-celestial, and change to outsider. Lets say that this bonus comes into play at level 20 (say a lvl 10 cleric/10 scion). Would the lvl adjustment be retroactive, as in the character wouldn't lvl again until he had gained enough xp to become lvl 23 (at least I think the lvl adjustment is 3...:confused: ), or would the template's lvl adjustment be ignored, because it was added by godly powers/natural processes? Please help!
ConfusedUs
09-02-03, 01:15 AM I'd say no, as the change is granted when you get the level. And by time you're 20th level, the small boost from the template isn't all that much.
L33t Angel
09-02-03, 01:52 AM Ah, your question is very good.

During play if a PC gains a template (such as Vampire) they automatically gain the ECL of that template added onto their level. So a Level 3 Fighter with a +3 LA is suddenly an 6 ECL. This is a problem in that it causes the game to become unbalanced. To help remedy this, the ECL has a restriction. Before the character can level up again they must accumulate enough XP not to become a 4th lvl Fighter but to become a 7th level fighter. With this method the other characters can "catch up" to there more powerful associate.

The problem lies in that for the time being the party is way unbalanced.
Remoan
09-02-03, 10:50 PM Thanks guys. I think that cleared it up for me. :)
Tenzhi
09-02-03, 11:07 PM It really depends on how the template is added. If it is added by a class, the Level Adjustment -should- already be figured into the class' balance via requirements and levels where you don't receive special abilities (which is to say that the class should already be built with the LA of the template in mind so that you don't have to do any extra XP figuring to balance it out).

If it is added on by extraordinary circumstances (such as the (un)natural spread of lycanthropy and vampirism) the LA should be applied normally to keep the balance.
The Abominable Darkling
09-02-03, 11:12 PM Tenzhi has the right of it. If you gain a template from some game effect (like being turned into a vampire), you add its level adjustment to figure out your new level and the XP you need for the next. On the other hand, prestige classes that grant templates (like dragon disciple) already have the template's powers factored into their requirements and abilities, so don't add the level adjustment in that case.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Remoan 09-02-03, 12:18 AM	(excuse this ahead of time if I'm in the wrong section, I'm still a bit rusty with this message board) So here goes... I understand that when you are applying a template to a character, such as making it a powerful race (say a drow for simplicities sake) you have a level adjustment that affects the characters level versus his actual xp (as in 3,000 xp for a level 1). Also, templates that are applied over that also usually have a similar affect (such as making the character a vampire, which has it's own lvl adjustment on top.) I understand all that just fine that they apply when your making a character, but what would happen if the template was added in game, say by a class bonus? If you've ever used the ultimate prestige class book, you might have seen the scion class (divine prestige class). At the top of the class, you become a half-celestial, and change to outsider. Lets say that this bonus comes into play at level 20 (say a lvl 10 cleric/10 scion). Would the lvl adjustment be retroactive, as in the character wouldn't lvl again until he had gained enough xp to become lvl 23 (at least I think the lvl adjustment is 3...:confused: ), or would the template's lvl adjustment be ignored, because it was added by godly powers/natural processes? Please help!
ConfusedUs 09-02-03, 01:15 AM	I'd say no, as the change is granted when you get the level. And by time you're 20th level, the small boost from the template isn't all that much.
L33t Angel 09-02-03, 01:52 AM	Ah, your question is very good. During play if a PC gains a template (such as Vampire) they automatically gain the ECL of that template added onto their level. So a Level 3 Fighter with a +3 LA is suddenly an 6 ECL. This is a problem in that it causes the game to become unbalanced. To help remedy this, the ECL has a restriction. Before the character can level up again they must accumulate enough XP not to become a 4th lvl Fighter but to become a 7th level fighter. With this method the other characters can "catch up" to there more powerful associate. The problem lies in that for the time being the party is way unbalanced.
Remoan 09-02-03, 10:50 PM	Thanks guys. I think that cleared it up for me. :)
Tenzhi 09-02-03, 11:07 PM	It really depends on how the template is added. If it is added by a class, the Level Adjustment -should- already be figured into the class' balance via requirements and levels where you don't receive special abilities (which is to say that the class should already be built with the LA of the template in mind so that you don't have to do any extra XP figuring to balance it out). If it is added on by extraordinary circumstances (such as the (un)natural spread of lycanthropy and vampirism) the LA should be applied normally to keep the balance.
The Abominable Darkling 09-02-03, 11:12 PM	Tenzhi has the right of it. If you gain a template from some game effect (like being turned into a vampire), you add its level adjustment to figure out your new level and the XP you need for the next. On the other hand, prestige classes that grant templates (like dragon disciple) already have the template's powers factored into their requirements and abilities, so don't add the level adjustment in that case.