A request for assistence. [Archive] - Wizards Community

A request for assistence. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Issabella
08-11-06, 04:22 PM While I am a fair enough GM ast stating out humanoid opponents (ie a race + class level = an encounter) I need some assistence in designing several elemental beings. By way of background I dreampt up four elemental beings (one each classical) who served as the "righ hands" of their patron gods. All four were mortal at one point in the distant past and were raised up by their Elemental lords as a reward for their service in centuries past. As a point of the plot these being have or will be traveling back to the Prime material to finish their opposites off as the PC's get involved.

The problems is I am having a hard time balancing these 4 creatures for a high level game. Too many spell like abilites, spells per day, special attacks is a very attractive option, but I am trying to maintain them as a very high level, end of a plot arch type arch villians/maybe allies. If it helps the setting is Forgotten Realms, and each is a "chosen" for the four elemental gods Kossuth (flame), Akadi (air), Grumbar (earth), and Istishia (water). Right now i only have the mental images on how I want them to appear to go with.

Stat wise I was aiming for a mid to low 30's encounter, I thought of these 4 each equal to a demon prince, arch angel, or devil lord, (somewhere between the BoVD/BoED versions & dice freaks super versions)

1- The Right Hand of Flame, the Duke of Incineration, The avenging Spear of Kossuth.

"A meteor rips its way across the sky, blazing even into the high noon sun, crashing into the woods, tinder dry after the late summer heat. Animals alert and skiddish break from warrens and hidding places in a blind panic, aware long before the humanoid inhabitants of what is about to transpire. The meteor rips a violent path across the tree tops, igniting them as though it were candle wicks of impossible size, before impacting into the ramshackle compound of the Broken blade orc clan. No tusker had a chance to comprehend their end. Out of control, defiant of efforts of concerned wizards and druids to extinguish, the fires dance and consume with a will and purpose of their own. Shocked and aghast the assembled folks could only gape at the being striding out of the ruined forest at the height of the Inferno."

"With a stride as if all were owned by him, a giant sized figure a dozen feet or more walks from the Blaze, surrounded by flames comforting him likes a welcoming lovers arms. Shaped as a man, glad in armor of reflective obsidian volcanic stone, form fitting and crafted to resemble a muscular body flayed of its flesh. Only the head remained un armored, and that provided little comfort to the onlookers, a handsome face sculpted of fine ash, constantly flacking off, and running in the extreme blaze that seemingly occured inside its empty head, as some terrible jack o lantern. Wind tossed whipping hair of fire crowned its ash head, a volcanic erruption of dark flames and magma errupting down its back where a spine would be. Grasped in its hand a great spear far larger then its wielder. of the most perfect metals and gems, bejewled to the point of tacky, an orb the brighness of the sun set where shaft connects to the broad jagged spear tip."

In a voice of cracking wood, promising terror, and comfort at the same time it intoned "Rejoice Faithfull, and despair the rest, the time of fire's purification has arrived, let all servents of the Lord of Flame stand tall, as the others shall be laid low."

well that is the first, reserving the other spots as I can fill the descriptions, please feel free to post ideas and builds, all kinds of help would be appreciated, thanks in advance
Issabella
08-11-06, 04:23 PM The Barron of Deeps, The extinguisher of Flames, the Terrible Tentacles of Istishia

Telesh and Vangaurt, two deck hands on the Water Drake had much to be upset about. First they cursed the Ship's Captain Abrasth's greed that caused them to sail so close to Luskan and the sea of moving ice this late in the season. More the cursed the Bosun, seconds mate Taggart who stuck them both on the dog's watch, and who's lash ensured they would not sleep that night. About the only thing the two sailors did not curse was the Water Drake's hired battle mage who had provided them posistioned controlled flames to keep from becoming ice blocks on their watch posts.

A shared flask of old Delzoun dwarven whiskey kept their insides warm, and minds unalert. But even brains befuddled they could not miss the surge that tilted the prow dangerouse upwards before dropping to sea level and then sickening listing forward. A reek of things long hidden from the sun, in dark depths even saughin do not swim swept the ship. A terrifying crack as heavy timbers groaned and surrendered to a massive bulk speed their tilted feet forward. Prayers to the ***** Queen Umberlee and her rival the god captain Valkur die on their lips....they were beyond salvation, and they knew it.

Grasping the front of their ship a monster floated and pulled itself aboard. Its upper body was larger and more muscled then a storm giants. Covering the torso an armor composed of unbelivable thick crustation shells. Green and blue skinned, changing with each crash of water over the deck, its angry bald head was sharply ridged, shark fanged mouth, with eyes glowing queerly as some of the fish of the deep ocean. From the waist down this nightmare only grew worse for the sailors for this giant thing looked more Kracken then man. A tangled mass of tentacles, some ending in the pincers of crabs of unbelivable size, others in grasping broad head of squid tentacles, moved in a chaotic jumble as they traced lines down the railings, the main mast, securing a un breakable grasp on the ship.

Holding aloft a trident composed of coral, points dripping a foul secretion, the being entoned in a voice rolling and booming, conjuring images of land washed away by hungry waves. "You have brought flame upon holy mother ocean, such stupidity can not be allowed." With that its entwined tentacles flexed mercelessly in one horrible instant casting the Water Drake into so much Flotsam and Jetsam. Before freezing to death in the uncaring cold waters the last sailors saw the titanic bulk of the monster slip beneath the waves without a ripple.
Issabella
08-11-06, 04:24 PM The Princess of gems, The strong arm of stone, Grumbars Guardian

To the Drow of Gaullidurth the assignment by their house had been an easy one, and rich with profit. The tiny cracks of the gem rich secton of the middle dark had been flayed wide and open over the last five ten-days. All the pampered nobles had to do was ensure that their hobgoblin slave masters and Minataur elite soldiers kept the horde of goblin, orcs and other lesser races toiling around the cycle. A few duitifull sacrifices to the Lady Loth went a long way to keeping the rabble in line. Quicky effeciently a dense warren of narrow cracks have been sculpted, and opened into a much larger cavern. The gems harvested will surrly bring their house an edge in its conflicts.

Cries of alarm amoungst the slaves and soldier drew the nobles from their richly appointed private cave, away from their Sava games, fine wines, and decadent pleasures. Swearing up and down painfull tortures on worthless minions. Snaked head whips foced their way through the growing cirlce of slaves and soldiers, circled around a most curiose shape.

Sized as a human, female in sharp lined curves, composed entirly of gems of differnt color, shape, and cut, to paint a rocky canvas of female beuty, a long tangle of fire stones as mocking hair. From its equisite diamond face, eye saphires near to large to the frame opened. In a voice, soft and seductive, but similar to fine sand flowing she, it, spoke "You have violated an area that is sacred to the earth, defend yourselves if you are capable".

The drow, half in fear, more so in greed of the incalculabe wealth of her body, crack wips, issue orders and threats, as slaves attempt to flee, and soldiers charge. Sickening screams of dispair as both are pulled underground and left entombed with out effort, as thought the world swallowed them without leaving a ripple on the cave floor.

Striding towards the leading priestess, ignoring their rain of inflicts, smites and damaging curses, infact reflecting many seconds latter as a delayed surprise it walked as though each step was being pulled out of sticky mud, instead of solid stone, showing her true connection to the earth. Stoping before the high priestess, resisting both her attempt to shatter and implode it spoke again "Tell your kin this cave is off limits, the rest I take in payment for your mining of my gems."

With that the high priestess became aware of two things, the earth quake brning the cave roof down upon the remaining drow, as the earth reached up to swallow her lung a hungry worm. Battered and bruised, bones breaking, the earth shoved her along straight up through the floor of the high temple of Lolth in Gaullidurth. Battered, broken, the hungry earth had stripped off her clothing and armor, breaking bones in the proccess she could barly issue the elementals warning before vommiting a chocking volume of mud.
Issabella
08-11-06, 04:24 PM Duchess of winds, The razor wind, Akadi's roaring voice

Lasha and Kith Aulundier well into the third century of their marriage did not imagine that their aniversary would end in the cooking pot of the Mountain giant and its hill giant allies. The winged Avariel cursed the fact they investigated the old ruins in the mountains. Its marbled facade spoke of Elven antiquity. Sadly it was now the smashed lair for the titanic brute and its smaller, yet still giant slaves.

The crude net of woven hair had been enough to trap their broad wings and drag them to the ground. Now sitting in their cage of crude wood and bone, the winged elves worked desperatly. Kith strained and worked at the knoted binding attempting to reach his bow and blade. Lasha working silently, using her husbands taunting insults to the giants as a cover worked calling to her goddess for salvation. Never expecting response, much less the one that arrived, because it was nearly over before she realized it had been answered.

The hill giants first indication that something was wrong was their fading view of their camp. Bewildered their slow wits attempting to understand why their mountain home was fading far away. A few of the quickest wits amoung them managed to understand that they had been flung far up and away from their mountin home before they landed with a body rupturing crash. As for the Mountain Giant he knew his slaves under assult, and lept to do battle with ......well he could not see what he was attempting to strike.

Grogosh the giant realized he was in trouble when his lung attempted to draw in air for his battle roar that would shake the trees near by, and was un able too. Worse it seemed the air that he did have in his lungs was no longer pressent. Deprived of air, unable to draw in more he quickly fell to his knees, grasping his thoat, pounding his chest, unable to comprehend what was happening.
"For attempting to eat servents of air, it has been decided air will no longer bless you with its pressense you brute." came in quietly at first and ending in a roar that ruptured Grogosh's ear drums in a foutain of blood.

Seemingly rearranging its form, a floating female of whispy cloud like material, and eyes, two tiny sparks of ball lighting, flickering quickly to leave an impression of never having been there, carved the cage in two with a sharp wind wall, freeing the winged ones to once again soar in the clouds.
Insane Pixie
08-11-06, 06:10 PM Have you considered the Elemental Monoliths or Elementals Grues from Complete Arcane? I'd check them out, if you haven't already. Even if you don't like them, they should give you some good starting points for abilities and the like.
Issabella
08-11-06, 06:37 PM hmmm do not have complete arcane, lets go see if Barnes and noble does not mind me browsing tommrow. I hope people like the fluff and flavor
dok
08-11-06, 09:28 PM The problems is I am having a hard time balancing these 4 creatures for a high level game...
Stat wise I was aiming for a mid to low 30's encounter, I thought of these 4 each equal to a demon prince, arch angel, or devil lord, (somewhere between the BoVD/BoED versions & dice freaks super versions)

When you say "mid to low 30's encounter", I assume you're referring to Challenge Rating?

I ask because the version of Ogremoch I made (http://community.dicefreaks.com/viewtopic.php?t=1301) is at the high end of the Dicefreaks archomentals at CR 40, while Immolatus, Hand of Imix (http://community.dicefreaks.com/viewtopic.php?t=760) sits at the bottom end at CR 26.

I do encourage the use of Dicefreaks Elemental Lord (http://community.dicefreaks.com/viewtopic.php?t=761) template for the monsters you want to make. It's a good template, but with a few odd glitches.

I would suggest starting with a "base creature", then using advancement, plus class levels and the Elemental Lord template to get your final creature.

You said you wanted a CR in the 'mid to low 30s'. So let's assume that's around 33.
The Elemental Lord adds a minimum of +10 CR (minimum 10 class levels @ 1/2 CR per level, and +5 CR on top of that) so we want a base creature of around CR 23 (though if it's lower, we can always add more class levels)

1- The Right Hand of Flame, the Duke of Incineration, The avenging Spear of Kossuth.

Base Creature: Let's see. You describe him as being basically humanoid, so Salamander is out. We could use an Efretti, except they're described as having black skin, and your creature wears black armor that contrasts its skin. We could use a Fire Giant, but that might not be big enough. (we could just use a Phaethon Abomination (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/abomination.htm#phaethon) and be done with it, but maybe not...)
Let's just look at some possible combinations:
1.) Efretti (CR 8, 10 HD), advanced to double HD (+10 HD, +6 CR), +9 class levels in an associated class (Fighter, Barbarian, Hex Blade, War Hulk) gives us a final CR of 23 before applying the Elemental Lord template, and after gives us an Advanced Huge Efretti Hexblade 19 at CR 33
2.) Fire Giant (CR 10, 15 HD), with 13 class levels (Fighter, Psychic Warrior, Ranger) and Elemental Lord. Net result is a Fire Giant Fighter 23 at CR 33, with the Elemental Lord goodies.
3.) Nightwalker (CR 16, 21 HD), Half-elemental [fire] (+2 CR), with 10 nonassociated class levels (Sorcerer, Favored Soul, Psion) and Elemental Lord template. Final result is a Half-fire-elemental Nightwalker Sorcerer/Favored Soul/Psion 20 with Elemental Lord goodness.
4.) Just use a Lavawight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/lavawight.htm) and add the Elemental Lord template.

The Barron of Deeps, The extinguisher of Flames, the Terrible Tentacles of Istishia

This one's a bit trickier, so we're just going to have to wing it in spots. Yes, we'll be breaking a few rules along the way...

Let's use the Tauric template (SS/MM2) as a starting point. Let's add Giants to Humanoids and Monstrous Humanoids as acceptable creatures, and simply say that the base Animal/magical beast/vermin must be within 1 size category of the base Humanoid/Monstrous Humanoid/Giant. You've already laid out what the two creatures should be: a Kraken, and a Storm Giant. This works pretty well for our purposes, since they are within one size of each other, and meet the Taruic requirements.

Following the template, we have a Gargantuan Monstrous Humanoid. It keeps the Kraken's tenticles and arms for attacks, and retains the Giant's Slams. It uses the Kraken's Natural Armor and movement speeds; we'll also give it a ground speed of half of the Storm Giant, because we like the idea of it crawling across the ground. It should keep the Storm Giant's mental scores, and the Kraken's Physical scores, but the Storm Giant has the better strength, so we'll use that. It has feats based on its HD total, with an emphasis on retaining those of the base creatures. It treats skills on either monster's description as class skills. The template also says we should add together their Hit Dice, and add +1 to the higher CR of the two creatures. That would give us a CR 14 creature with 39 HD, and the BAB to back it up, and that doesn't seem quite right; instead, we'll use the 3.5 guideline for advancing monsters by HD, and say that +19 HD of Monstrous Humanoid/Magical Beast is worth +6 CR. That gives us a final CR of 19, but I'm still not sure that's right. However, throwing on the Elemental Lord template puts us to CR 29, which if we've underestimated CR (and I think we have) then we're right where you want to be.

The Princess of gems, The strong arm of stone, Grumbars Guardian
Let's have some fun with this one.
How about an awakened Clay Golem? The base Clay Golem has 11 HD, and is CR 10. Giving it mental scores means it gets skills & feats, so we'll add +1 to the CR for that, and then let's advance the creature by +20 HD for another +6 CR. That gives us CR 17, leaving room enough for six associated, or twelve nonassociated class levels. (Nothing brings the pain quite like Monk levels with a Clay Golem; wound on a Flurry? Eeech.)

Maybe that doesn't work for you. How about a Half-Elemental (earth) Ghaele? At a base CR of 13 with 10 HD, half-elemental adds +2 for CR 15, leaving room for 8 Cleric, Fighter, or Paladin levels, or +14 HD. Before adding Elemental Lord.

You could use a Galeb Duhr (8 HD, CR 9), advanced to maximum HD (+16 HD, +5 CR) with 9 class levels in Fighter, Barbarian, or Ranger; maybe put in 5 levels of the Survivor PrC (SS) for the defensive features.

Duchess of winds, The razor wind, Akadi's roaring voice

The flavor text really does make this sound like a Breathdrinker. (MMII, RttToEE web-enhancement) Base creature is CR 7, 8 HD. Advancing it to maximum HD (+16 HD, +5 CR) leaves room for 11 levels of Rogue before adding the Elemental Lord.

Just a few thoughts.
Issabella
08-11-06, 10:17 PM Wow Dok, that is a great deal of help, let me play around with your suggestions. Do you think it would be worth it to cut and paste over at dice freaks for their suggestions as well?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Issabella 08-11-06, 04:22 PM	While I am a fair enough GM ast stating out humanoid opponents (ie a race + class level = an encounter) I need some assistence in designing several elemental beings. By way of background I dreampt up four elemental beings (one each classical) who served as the "righ hands" of their patron gods. All four were mortal at one point in the distant past and were raised up by their Elemental lords as a reward for their service in centuries past. As a point of the plot these being have or will be traveling back to the Prime material to finish their opposites off as the PC's get involved. The problems is I am having a hard time balancing these 4 creatures for a high level game. Too many spell like abilites, spells per day, special attacks is a very attractive option, but I am trying to maintain them as a very high level, end of a plot arch type arch villians/maybe allies. If it helps the setting is Forgotten Realms, and each is a "chosen" for the four elemental gods Kossuth (flame), Akadi (air), Grumbar (earth), and Istishia (water). Right now i only have the mental images on how I want them to appear to go with. Stat wise I was aiming for a mid to low 30's encounter, I thought of these 4 each equal to a demon prince, arch angel, or devil lord, (somewhere between the BoVD/BoED versions & dice freaks super versions) 1- The Right Hand of Flame, the Duke of Incineration, The avenging Spear of Kossuth. "A meteor rips its way across the sky, blazing even into the high noon sun, crashing into the woods, tinder dry after the late summer heat. Animals alert and skiddish break from warrens and hidding places in a blind panic, aware long before the humanoid inhabitants of what is about to transpire. The meteor rips a violent path across the tree tops, igniting them as though it were candle wicks of impossible size, before impacting into the ramshackle compound of the Broken blade orc clan. No tusker had a chance to comprehend their end. Out of control, defiant of efforts of concerned wizards and druids to extinguish, the fires dance and consume with a will and purpose of their own. Shocked and aghast the assembled folks could only gape at the being striding out of the ruined forest at the height of the Inferno." "With a stride as if all were owned by him, a giant sized figure a dozen feet or more walks from the Blaze, surrounded by flames comforting him likes a welcoming lovers arms. Shaped as a man, glad in armor of reflective obsidian volcanic stone, form fitting and crafted to resemble a muscular body flayed of its flesh. Only the head remained un armored, and that provided little comfort to the onlookers, a handsome face sculpted of fine ash, constantly flacking off, and running in the extreme blaze that seemingly occured inside its empty head, as some terrible jack o lantern. Wind tossed whipping hair of fire crowned its ash head, a volcanic erruption of dark flames and magma errupting down its back where a spine would be. Grasped in its hand a great spear far larger then its wielder. of the most perfect metals and gems, bejewled to the point of tacky, an orb the brighness of the sun set where shaft connects to the broad jagged spear tip." In a voice of cracking wood, promising terror, and comfort at the same time it intoned "Rejoice Faithfull, and despair the rest, the time of fire's purification has arrived, let all servents of the Lord of Flame stand tall, as the others shall be laid low." well that is the first, reserving the other spots as I can fill the descriptions, please feel free to post ideas and builds, all kinds of help would be appreciated, thanks in advance
Issabella 08-11-06, 04:23 PM	The Barron of Deeps, The extinguisher of Flames, the Terrible Tentacles of Istishia Telesh and Vangaurt, two deck hands on the Water Drake had much to be upset about. First they cursed the Ship's Captain Abrasth's greed that caused them to sail so close to Luskan and the sea of moving ice this late in the season. More the cursed the Bosun, seconds mate Taggart who stuck them both on the dog's watch, and who's lash ensured they would not sleep that night. About the only thing the two sailors did not curse was the Water Drake's hired battle mage who had provided them posistioned controlled flames to keep from becoming ice blocks on their watch posts. A shared flask of old Delzoun dwarven whiskey kept their insides warm, and minds unalert. But even brains befuddled they could not miss the surge that tilted the prow dangerouse upwards before dropping to sea level and then sickening listing forward. A reek of things long hidden from the sun, in dark depths even saughin do not swim swept the ship. A terrifying crack as heavy timbers groaned and surrendered to a massive bulk speed their tilted feet forward. Prayers to the ***** Queen Umberlee and her rival the god captain Valkur die on their lips....they were beyond salvation, and they knew it. Grasping the front of their ship a monster floated and pulled itself aboard. Its upper body was larger and more muscled then a storm giants. Covering the torso an armor composed of unbelivable thick crustation shells. Green and blue skinned, changing with each crash of water over the deck, its angry bald head was sharply ridged, shark fanged mouth, with eyes glowing queerly as some of the fish of the deep ocean. From the waist down this nightmare only grew worse for the sailors for this giant thing looked more Kracken then man. A tangled mass of tentacles, some ending in the pincers of crabs of unbelivable size, others in grasping broad head of squid tentacles, moved in a chaotic jumble as they traced lines down the railings, the main mast, securing a un breakable grasp on the ship. Holding aloft a trident composed of coral, points dripping a foul secretion, the being entoned in a voice rolling and booming, conjuring images of land washed away by hungry waves. "You have brought flame upon holy mother ocean, such stupidity can not be allowed." With that its entwined tentacles flexed mercelessly in one horrible instant casting the Water Drake into so much Flotsam and Jetsam. Before freezing to death in the uncaring cold waters the last sailors saw the titanic bulk of the monster slip beneath the waves without a ripple.
Issabella 08-11-06, 04:24 PM	The Princess of gems, The strong arm of stone, Grumbars Guardian To the Drow of Gaullidurth the assignment by their house had been an easy one, and rich with profit. The tiny cracks of the gem rich secton of the middle dark had been flayed wide and open over the last five ten-days. All the pampered nobles had to do was ensure that their hobgoblin slave masters and Minataur elite soldiers kept the horde of goblin, orcs and other lesser races toiling around the cycle. A few duitifull sacrifices to the Lady Loth went a long way to keeping the rabble in line. Quicky effeciently a dense warren of narrow cracks have been sculpted, and opened into a much larger cavern. The gems harvested will surrly bring their house an edge in its conflicts. Cries of alarm amoungst the slaves and soldier drew the nobles from their richly appointed private cave, away from their Sava games, fine wines, and decadent pleasures. Swearing up and down painfull tortures on worthless minions. Snaked head whips foced their way through the growing cirlce of slaves and soldiers, circled around a most curiose shape. Sized as a human, female in sharp lined curves, composed entirly of gems of differnt color, shape, and cut, to paint a rocky canvas of female beuty, a long tangle of fire stones as mocking hair. From its equisite diamond face, eye saphires near to large to the frame opened. In a voice, soft and seductive, but similar to fine sand flowing she, it, spoke "You have violated an area that is sacred to the earth, defend yourselves if you are capable". The drow, half in fear, more so in greed of the incalculabe wealth of her body, crack wips, issue orders and threats, as slaves attempt to flee, and soldiers charge. Sickening screams of dispair as both are pulled underground and left entombed with out effort, as thought the world swallowed them without leaving a ripple on the cave floor. Striding towards the leading priestess, ignoring their rain of inflicts, smites and damaging curses, infact reflecting many seconds latter as a delayed surprise it walked as though each step was being pulled out of sticky mud, instead of solid stone, showing her true connection to the earth. Stoping before the high priestess, resisting both her attempt to shatter and implode it spoke again "Tell your kin this cave is off limits, the rest I take in payment for your mining of my gems." With that the high priestess became aware of two things, the earth quake brning the cave roof down upon the remaining drow, as the earth reached up to swallow her lung a hungry worm. Battered and bruised, bones breaking, the earth shoved her along straight up through the floor of the high temple of Lolth in Gaullidurth. Battered, broken, the hungry earth had stripped off her clothing and armor, breaking bones in the proccess she could barly issue the elementals warning before vommiting a chocking volume of mud.
Issabella 08-11-06, 04:24 PM	Duchess of winds, The razor wind, Akadi's roaring voice Lasha and Kith Aulundier well into the third century of their marriage did not imagine that their aniversary would end in the cooking pot of the Mountain giant and its hill giant allies. The winged Avariel cursed the fact they investigated the old ruins in the mountains. Its marbled facade spoke of Elven antiquity. Sadly it was now the smashed lair for the titanic brute and its smaller, yet still giant slaves. The crude net of woven hair had been enough to trap their broad wings and drag them to the ground. Now sitting in their cage of crude wood and bone, the winged elves worked desperatly. Kith strained and worked at the knoted binding attempting to reach his bow and blade. Lasha working silently, using her husbands taunting insults to the giants as a cover worked calling to her goddess for salvation. Never expecting response, much less the one that arrived, because it was nearly over before she realized it had been answered. The hill giants first indication that something was wrong was their fading view of their camp. Bewildered their slow wits attempting to understand why their mountain home was fading far away. A few of the quickest wits amoung them managed to understand that they had been flung far up and away from their mountin home before they landed with a body rupturing crash. As for the Mountain Giant he knew his slaves under assult, and lept to do battle with ......well he could not see what he was attempting to strike. Grogosh the giant realized he was in trouble when his lung attempted to draw in air for his battle roar that would shake the trees near by, and was un able too. Worse it seemed the air that he did have in his lungs was no longer pressent. Deprived of air, unable to draw in more he quickly fell to his knees, grasping his thoat, pounding his chest, unable to comprehend what was happening. "For attempting to eat servents of air, it has been decided air will no longer bless you with its pressense you brute." came in quietly at first and ending in a roar that ruptured Grogosh's ear drums in a foutain of blood. Seemingly rearranging its form, a floating female of whispy cloud like material, and eyes, two tiny sparks of ball lighting, flickering quickly to leave an impression of never having been there, carved the cage in two with a sharp wind wall, freeing the winged ones to once again soar in the clouds.
Insane Pixie 08-11-06, 06:10 PM	Have you considered the Elemental Monoliths or Elementals Grues from Complete Arcane? I'd check them out, if you haven't already. Even if you don't like them, they should give you some good starting points for abilities and the like.
Issabella 08-11-06, 06:37 PM	hmmm do not have complete arcane, lets go see if Barnes and noble does not mind me browsing tommrow. I hope people like the fluff and flavor
dok 08-11-06, 09:28 PM	The problems is I am having a hard time balancing these 4 creatures for a high level game... Stat wise I was aiming for a mid to low 30's encounter, I thought of these 4 each equal to a demon prince, arch angel, or devil lord, (somewhere between the BoVD/BoED versions & dice freaks super versions) When you say "mid to low 30's encounter", I assume you're referring to Challenge Rating? I ask because the version of Ogremoch I made (http://community.dicefreaks.com/viewtopic.php?t=1301) is at the high end of the Dicefreaks archomentals at CR 40, while Immolatus, Hand of Imix (http://community.dicefreaks.com/viewtopic.php?t=760) sits at the bottom end at CR 26. I do encourage the use of Dicefreaks Elemental Lord (http://community.dicefreaks.com/viewtopic.php?t=761) template for the monsters you want to make. It's a good template, but with a few odd glitches. I would suggest starting with a "base creature", then using advancement, plus class levels and the Elemental Lord template to get your final creature. You said you wanted a CR in the 'mid to low 30s'. So let's assume that's around 33. The Elemental Lord adds a minimum of +10 CR (minimum 10 class levels @ 1/2 CR per level, and +5 CR on top of that) so we want a base creature of around CR 23 (though if it's lower, we can always add more class levels) 1- The Right Hand of Flame, the Duke of Incineration, The avenging Spear of Kossuth. Base Creature: Let's see. You describe him as being basically humanoid, so Salamander is out. We could use an Efretti, except they're described as having black skin, and your creature wears black armor that contrasts its skin. We could use a Fire Giant, but that might not be big enough. (we could just use a Phaethon Abomination (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/abomination.htm#phaethon) and be done with it, but maybe not...) Let's just look at some possible combinations: 1.) Efretti (CR 8, 10 HD), advanced to double HD (+10 HD, +6 CR), +9 class levels in an associated class (Fighter, Barbarian, Hex Blade, War Hulk) gives us a final CR of 23 before applying the Elemental Lord template, and after gives us an Advanced Huge Efretti Hexblade 19 at CR 33 2.) Fire Giant (CR 10, 15 HD), with 13 class levels (Fighter, Psychic Warrior, Ranger) and Elemental Lord. Net result is a Fire Giant Fighter 23 at CR 33, with the Elemental Lord goodies. 3.) Nightwalker (CR 16, 21 HD), Half-elemental [fire] (+2 CR), with 10 nonassociated class levels (Sorcerer, Favored Soul, Psion) and Elemental Lord template. Final result is a Half-fire-elemental Nightwalker Sorcerer/Favored Soul/Psion 20 with Elemental Lord goodness. 4.) Just use a Lavawight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/lavawight.htm) and add the Elemental Lord template. The Barron of Deeps, The extinguisher of Flames, the Terrible Tentacles of Istishia This one's a bit trickier, so we're just going to have to wing it in spots. Yes, we'll be breaking a few rules along the way... Let's use the Tauric template (SS/MM2) as a starting point. Let's add Giants to Humanoids and Monstrous Humanoids as acceptable creatures, and simply say that the base Animal/magical beast/vermin must be within 1 size category of the base Humanoid/Monstrous Humanoid/Giant. You've already laid out what the two creatures should be: a Kraken, and a Storm Giant. This works pretty well for our purposes, since they are within one size of each other, and meet the Taruic requirements. Following the template, we have a Gargantuan Monstrous Humanoid. It keeps the Kraken's tenticles and arms for attacks, and retains the Giant's Slams. It uses the Kraken's Natural Armor and movement speeds; we'll also give it a ground speed of half of the Storm Giant, because we like the idea of it crawling across the ground. It should keep the Storm Giant's mental scores, and the Kraken's Physical scores, but the Storm Giant has the better strength, so we'll use that. It has feats based on its HD total, with an emphasis on retaining those of the base creatures. It treats skills on either monster's description as class skills. The template also says we should add together their Hit Dice, and add +1 to the higher CR of the two creatures. That would give us a CR 14 creature with 39 HD, and the BAB to back it up, and that doesn't seem quite right; instead, we'll use the 3.5 guideline for advancing monsters by HD, and say that +19 HD of Monstrous Humanoid/Magical Beast is worth +6 CR. That gives us a final CR of 19, but I'm still not sure that's right. However, throwing on the Elemental Lord template puts us to CR 29, which if we've underestimated CR (and I think we have) then we're right where you want to be. The Princess of gems, The strong arm of stone, Grumbars Guardian Let's have some fun with this one. How about an awakened Clay Golem? The base Clay Golem has 11 HD, and is CR 10. Giving it mental scores means it gets skills & feats, so we'll add +1 to the CR for that, and then let's advance the creature by +20 HD for another +6 CR. That gives us CR 17, leaving room enough for six associated, or twelve nonassociated class levels. (Nothing brings the pain quite like Monk levels with a Clay Golem; wound on a Flurry? Eeech.) Maybe that doesn't work for you. How about a Half-Elemental (earth) Ghaele? At a base CR of 13 with 10 HD, half-elemental adds +2 for CR 15, leaving room for 8 Cleric, Fighter, or Paladin levels, or +14 HD. Before adding Elemental Lord. You could use a Galeb Duhr (8 HD, CR 9), advanced to maximum HD (+16 HD, +5 CR) with 9 class levels in Fighter, Barbarian, or Ranger; maybe put in 5 levels of the Survivor PrC (SS) for the defensive features. Duchess of winds, The razor wind, Akadi's roaring voice The flavor text really does make this sound like a Breathdrinker. (MMII, RttToEE web-enhancement) Base creature is CR 7, 8 HD. Advancing it to maximum HD (+16 HD, +5 CR) leaves room for 11 levels of Rogue before adding the Elemental Lord. Just a few thoughts.
Issabella 08-11-06, 10:17 PM	Wow Dok, that is a great deal of help, let me play around with your suggestions. Do you think it would be worth it to cut and paste over at dice freaks for their suggestions as well?