Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ArchmageOmega 09-12-07, 01:30 AM	This is the right place for this, isn't it? Anyway. The setup is this; I want to run a dungeon romp game sometime soon. The idea is just to have fun exploring dungeons for no particularly good reason other than the treasures they might find (at least OOC). That includes maps to other dungeons, of course. After thinking about this for a bit, I figured it'd be more fun for the players if they ran in to some creatures they had never seen before. So I've decided to make up a few creatures before the game begins (at some undecided point in the future, for now). This is my first creature and the main question I have is one of balance. Could a standard party of the appropriate level deal with this creature? The idea is to have a creature that basically ignores nearly any damage thrown at it (unless the characters do their research), but can't really do much to the players either. Also, am I breaking any rules with this? Well, here's the creature. (Ignore any similarities to certain creatures from a well know series of games. :D) I wish I could post a Word file so I could ask you about my formatting (for ease of use), but for now I'll just post the text. Oh yeah, if you happen to be one of my players, you should stop reading here. Metal Slime CR 5 LN Medium Ooze (lawful) Init -5; Senses blind, blindsight 60 ft.; Listen -5, Spot -5 ----- AC 5, touch 5, flat-footed 5; grip metal hp 37 (3HD); DR 10/chaotic Immune poison, sleep, paralysis, polymorph, stunning, critical hits, flanking, gaze attacks, visual effects, sight-based attacks, illusions, charm, compulsion, phantasms, patters, morale effects, electricity (heals) Resist acid 10, cold 10, fire 10, sonic 10; vulnerability to acid; resistances Fort +8, Ref -4, Will -4 ----- Speed 20 ft. (4 squares) Melee slam +5 (1d6+4); lawful, grip metal Space 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft. Base Atk +2; Grp +5 Atk Options – Special Actions fission ----- Abilities Str 17, Dex 1, Con 24, Int -, Wis 1, Cha 1 SQ grip metal, consume metal, immunity to electricity Feats – Skills – Possessions – Treasure 1/10 coins, 50% goods (no nonmetal), 50% items (no nonmetal) Advancement 4-5 HD (Medium); 6-9 HD (Large) Environment Underground Organization Solitary, Pair ----- Consume Metal (Ex): Any metal that remains in contact with a metal slime for 5 minutes is destroyed. A magic item may make a Fortitude save (DC 18) every 5 minutes to resist being destroyed. Every 5 lbs. of metal that a slime consumes grants it 1 extra hp. The slime's total hp cannot exceed twice its normal maximum. Fission (Ex): A metal slime with at least full hp may take a full round action to split itself into two smaller metal slimes, each with half as many hp, rounded down. Grip Metal (Ex): When a metal slime attacks a character wearing metal armor, it may attempt to start a grapple as a free action. When a metal slime is attacked with a metal weapon, it may attempt to disarm its opponent as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it is successful, the weapon becomes imbedded in the slime and must be pried loose (an opposed strength check). Resistance (Ex): A metal slime is resistant to all energy types. In addition, some energy types have additional effects on a metal slime. Fire damage makes the slime move and attack faster, as per the haste spell. This effect lasts 1 round. Cold damage slows the slime, as per the slow spell. This effect lasts 1 round. Immunity to Electricity (Ex): Electricity heals the slime 1 point for every 3 points of damage the attack would otherwise deal. If the amount of healing would cause it to exceed its full normal hit points, it gains any excess as temporary hit points. ----- Sitting in the middle of a pile of coins and other metal debris is a 4’ tall, silvery sphere. It has a strange, opalescent sheen to it, as if a thick layer of oil surrounded it. As you approach, it suddenly begins to move. Dungeoneering DC 13 - This creature seems to be some species of ooze that subsists on metal. You notice several bits of half-dissolved gear protruding from near its base. DC 18 - This is a metal slime. It feeds on metal of all types, and like all oozes, it’s constantly hungry. They are fairly rare since they have to consume vast amounts of metal to reproduce. It is also known to be resistant to almost all forms of damage. DC 23 - The few scholars that have studied metal slimes find them unusually regular for an ooze. They have also noted that the slime moves more quickly when heated and more slowly when cooled. Electricity seems to heal the creature somewhat. The rarity of these creatures may make them worth something to collectors if you could figure out how to capture one. DC 28 - Once scholar that made a careful study of the properties of metal slimes noted that they were less resistant to sonic and acid damage, especially acid. He also wrote that with their extreme regularity of shape and action, metals slimes may actually be lawfully aligned. ----- A metal slime is basically a mass of liquid metal surrounded by a thick film of an oily, opalescent substance. Once destroyed, a metal slime collapses into a pool of liquid metal, which will harden over the course of a day or two. Until then, various undigested coins and items may be found within the pool with a simple search. A standard metal slime is a nearly perfect sphere about 5 feet in diameter. At this size it weighs around 6 tons. It spends its time gathering or searching for any kind of metal to consume. A metal slime eats slowly. It may sit atop a large pile of coins for over a day. Due to their rarity and unusual properties, collectors will sometimes pay upwards of 3,000 gp for a living metal slime. Some alchemists will pay up to 50 gp for a properly preserved sample of the liquid metal inside a slime. Preserving a sample takes an empty vial, 1 minute of time and an alchemy check (DC 15). A typical slime yields between 5 and 20 clean samples (3d6+2).
dman11235 09-12-07, 01:56 AM	Make fission based of HP, not HD, and call it fission or split, not fusion.
ArchmageOmega 09-12-07, 03:37 AM	Ack. You're right. It's supposed to be Fission. I don't know why I always get those two confused. Anyway, how would you suggest the ability work? I could imagine Consume Metal granting bonus hp and they could use Fission if they exceeded 2xMax or something. Any thoughts? I know a similar ability exists for some official creature, but I don't remember which one.
dman11235 09-12-07, 01:41 PM	Check the oozes with split. They based it off of HP, and that will work better than HD. And they have it damaged to split. The oozes from MMIII (I think) like the summoning ooze have the ooze reproductive cycle. That's what the fission thing is looking like it's supposed to be. The consume metal granting HP would work. Just make it based off the damage the metal takes instead.
ArchmageOmega 09-12-07, 03:06 PM	Ok. How about this as a revision of Consume Metal and Fission then. Consume Metal (Ex): Any metal that remains in contact with a metal slime for 5 minutes is destroyed. A magic item may make a Fortitude save every 5 minutes to resist being destroyed. Every 5 lbs. of metal that a slime consumes grants it 1 extra hp. The slime's total hp cannot exceed twice its normal maximum. Fission (Ex): A metal slime with at least 2 hp may take a full round action to split itself into two smaller metal slimes, each with half as many hp, rounded down.
ArchmageOmega 09-12-07, 04:34 PM	Since it only has one attack, would I give it +STR or +1.5*STR to damage, and do I round that up or down? (So would it be 1d6+3, 1d6+4 or 1d6+5?) BTW, I made a few small changes. I listed out some immunities I'd forgotten, and made a note (by AC and Melee) of anything special that applies when it hits or is hit.
dman11235 09-12-07, 05:16 PM	Change the consume metal thing to the same mechanic as the acid for the others. Deals 10+1/2HD+con per full round contact. Check it out in the SRD. And the attack is still 1*str.
ArchmageOmega 09-12-07, 08:27 PM	I don't think I want to use the same mechanic for this creature. For one thing, I don't want to have to worry about the party's gear being destroyed after one or two hits. For this ooze, it secretes something more like metal-only-glue than acid (plus, acid is one of its main weaknesses). Any suggestions on how to represent that mechanically? The Consume Metal ability (as currently written) would be more of a long-term ability for encounter planning (although I might should cut the time down to 1 min so that it might actually matter in a drawn out combat). One possible side effect would be to say that, after sitting on a pile of coins for a while, it'd have Fast Healing 1 until it finished eating.
dman11235 09-12-07, 08:50 PM	But the acid take a full round of contact to do any damage. This would still be an after battle thing. The other thing that this allows you to do is give damage to the armor/sword/etc over time, keep in mind that a suit of armor is not going to be destroyed by this in one round. And there's a 500 gp enhancement (non-magical) from Dungeonscape that totally prevents this.
ArchmageOmega 09-12-07, 10:55 PM	Just for reference, here's the Black Pudding's acid from the SRD. A metal slime would have DC 18 on all this. ----- Acid (Ex) The creature secretes a digestive acid that dissolves organic material and metal quickly, but does not affect stone. Any melee hit or constrict attack deals acid damage, and the opponent’s armor and clothing dissolve and become useless immediately unless they succeed on DC 21 Reflex saves. A metal or wooden weapon that strikes a black pudding also dissolves immediately unless it succeeds on a DC 21 Reflex save. The save DCs are Constitution-based. The pudding’s acidic touch deals 21 points of damage per round to wooden or metal objects, but the ooze must remain in contact with the object for 1 full round to deal this damage. ----- The italics are mine and are the parts I have trouble with. How would you rewrite the relevant abilities in this situation?
Hellsbells 09-12-07, 11:00 PM	P.S. the usual thing to do is to put the name or theme/idea of the creature and then say P.E.A.C.H. Please Examine And Chriteque Honestly or its evil twin P.I.T.C.H. Please Ignore This Crappy Homebrew
ArchmageOmega 09-12-07, 11:36 PM	Oh. Ok. I didn't know that. I fixed it. :D
ArchmageOmega 09-14-07, 05:20 PM	Can I assume, from the lack of further comments, that this creature is fairly balanced at CR 5, and despite not being standard (doesn't have Acid like most oozes) none of its abilities are broken? (Also, I'll edit in the hp version of Consume Metal and Fission.)
JarionSilverblades 09-15-07, 10:56 AM	Metal Slime CR 5 LN Medium Ooze (lawful) Why does it have the Lawful sub-type if it's mindless? Init -5; Senses blind, blindsight; Listen -5, Spot -5 What is the rang of blindsight, 60 ft 120 ft? DR 15/chaotic ? Damage Reduction 15/chaotic? really don't see a DR 15, maybe DR 5, but not 15. Resist acid 5, cold 15, fire 15, electricity 10, sonic 10; resistances I can't see it having all this Resistance. Acid 10and cold 10, I could see, but with all the metal it consumes I think it shouldn't have any resistance to fire, and it should be vulnerable to electricity. With all the DR and Resistance it seems it might be pretty tough for 5th level PCs, maybe even 6th or 7th level. I mean a 5th level Barbarian (while raging) with a great axe could deal more then 15 points but any other character would be pretty useless. Even most spells would be useless. all the other stuff looks good.
Xiuhcoatl 09-15-07, 11:01 AM	Could you post this in the old format? The mismatching and separation of various numbers makes the new format very difficult to use for purposes of critiquing.
nightmaredragon 09-15-07, 12:15 PM	Who are you, Xiuhcoatl, to criticize others' work based only on what format they use to portray it? ArchmageOmega, This is an excellent piece of work, but I too must ask: why does it have the lawful subtype?
Xiuhcoatl 09-15-07, 12:18 PM	Am I criticizing it? It seems you have your definitions a bit off. I said, simply, that for purposes of critiquing it (which is, by the way, the core meaning of "PEACH") ... the old format is favorable to the new for many reasons.
JarionSilverblades 09-15-07, 12:20 PM	Who are you, Xiuhcoatl, to criticize others' work based only on what format they use to portray it? ArchmageOmega, This is an excellent piece of work, but I too must ask: why does it have the lawful subtype? Dude calm down, he was just saying he has trouble understanding the format, he didn't criticize the work.
Igfig 09-15-07, 01:51 PM	I like the concept, but I have most of the same concerns as other people (the Lawful subtype, the rangeless blindsight, the overly-high DR and resistances; I do like the new format, though). I also have a few more oddities to point out: -Why does it have electricity and fire resistance when electricity and fire actually benefit it? I would agree with JarionSilverblades in suggesting the resistances be reduced to Cold 10 and Acid 10, though you should also mention that it takes no actual damage from fire and electricity. -Fission seems too easily exploitable. One ooze could split into 37 oozes of one hp each, each of which is the same size as the original ooze and deals 1d6+3 damage per hit. Instead, I would restrict the splitting to times when the ooze has exceeded its normal max hp. -You seem to have neglected to include the flat-footed AC (though it's also just 5) -There's no such thing as a "Quick Contest of Strength" in D&D. You must be thinking of GURPS or some other system. The phrase is "Opposed Strength Check". (Don't mind me, I'm just being pedantic.) Other than those and what's been said before, nice concept. Keep it up. EDIT: Also, it should add 1.5 x Str bonus to damage, not 1x. If a creature has one attack, it gets 1.5x.
JarionSilverblades 09-15-07, 02:08 PM	-Fission seems too easily exploitable. One ooze could split into 37 oozes of one hp each, each of which is the same size as the original ooze and deals 1d6+3 damage per hit. Instead, I would restrict the splitting to times when the ooze has exceeded its normal max hp. Igfig is right you might want to limit the number of times it can use this ability. -You seem to have neglected to include the flat-footed AC (though it's also just 5) it has flat-foot AC listed.
ArchmageOmega 09-15-07, 04:34 PM	Thanks for all the replies. First, I'm using the new format since I intend to use this in an encounter format instead of a monster manual, basically. Second, there are a few typos. The flat-footed AC is 5, but I put the ; in the wrong place. (And yeah, I probably was thinking of GURPS when I said a quick contest of strength, but it means the same thing. :)) I can try to write it up in the old format too, but I'll probably get something wrong. As for the lawful subtype, it's just something to be different (plus there's nothing that says a mindless creature can't be lawful). It's something that the players wouldn't expect and it gives it a specific weakness (chaotic) that they'd have to research. Acid is it's other weakness, which is why it only has acid resist 5 instead of 10. The DR and resistances were based on the fact that a 5th level wizard can do 5d6 energy damage (fireball, lightning bolt, etc.). That's 17.5 damage on average. It doesn't have much hp, so a few good hits should kill it, which is the idea. If they attack it without at least a good Dungeoneering check though, they'll have a much harder time beating it, since fire and lightning help it a little. It's not immune to fire and lightning since that'd make it basically invulnerable (instead of difficult) for an unprepared party. That's my reasoning anyway. I'm certainly willing to change a few things around a bit as long as the concept is kept intact. As for Fission, should it be once per day, or only when over max hp? Is there a more elegant way of dealing with the resistances to achieve the same basic effect (somewhat weak against acid, stronger against fire and lightning)? Should I reduce it's HD by 1? Is Grip Metal playable as written? Any other suggestions? Thanks again.
ArchmageOmega 09-15-07, 05:06 PM	Ok, here it is in the old format. Metal Slime Size/Type: Medium Ooze Hit Dice: 3d10+21 (37 hp) Initiative: -5 Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares) Armor Class: 5 (-5 Dex), touch 5, flat-footed 5 Base Attack/Grapple: +2/+5 Attack: Slam +5 melee (1d6+4) Full Attack: Slam +5 melee (1d6+4) Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft. Special Attacks: grip metal Special Qualities: Blindsight 60 ft., ooze traits, fission, consume metal, resistances Saves: Fort +8, Ref -4, Will -4 Abilities: Str 17, Dex 1, Con 24, Int Ø, Wis 1, Cha 1 Skills: — Feats: — Environment: Underground Organization: Solitary, Pair Challenge Rating: 5 Treasure: 1/10 coins, 50% goods (no nonmetal), 50% items (no nonmetal) Alignment: Always lawful neutral Advancement: 4-5 HD (Large); 6-9 HD (Huge) Level Adjustment: — Hmm... I think that's right.
nightmaredragon 09-15-07, 05:48 PM	Jarion and others, I apologize...
Igfig 09-15-07, 10:49 PM	The flat-footed AC is 5, but I put the ; in the wrong place. Oops. I guess my Spot check is low. As for the lawful subtype, it's just something to be different (plus there's nothing that says a mindless creature can't be lawful). It's something that the players wouldn't expect and it gives it a specific weakness (chaotic) that they'd have to research. Hmm... okay, you've convinced me. (various comments about energy resistances) Considering that lightning already heals it, I can't see how the ooze could possibly not be immune to electricity. If it takes damage and then heals part of it, you might as well just increase the resistance instead. (That said, technically the golems that heal when hit by energy attacks only benefit from magical energy, and actually take normal damage from mundane energy sources) The fire situation is unusual, and possibly unprecedented (most creatures that benefit from an energy type are immune to that type), but it's by no means illegal. Keep it, it's neat. And as for wanting a weakness to acid, you could just give it an acid vulnerability (+50% damage from acid), and put all the resistances at 10 (which is easier to remember while playing). Note that the resistance is applied before the vulnerability. As for Fission, should it be once per day, or only when over max hp? I prefer the "whenever over max hp", but then again I suggested it. My reasoning has rough parallels to a Teratomorph, which gains bonus HD by eating things and splits in two upon reaching 72 HD. It makes more sense to me that they can reproduce like crazy when there're massive quantities of metal about, rather than once per day regardless of food availability. Should I reduce it's HD by 1? Is Grip Metal playable as written? No and yes, in my opinion. G'luck!
Xiuhcoatl 09-15-07, 11:04 PM	Thank you for posting in the original monster format. This format is far easier to read, mechanically ... Based on it, it does not seem overpowered--highly durable, but easy to defeat.
ArchmageOmega 09-16-07, 12:22 AM	Thanks again for the comments. I'm feeling much more confident that running this monster will neither be a cakewalk or a TPK. :D Considering that lightning already heals it, I can't see how the ooze could possibly not be immune to electricity. If it takes damage and then heals part of it, you might as well just increase the resistance instead. (That said, technically the golems that heal when hit by energy attacks only benefit from magical energy, and actually take normal damage from mundane energy sources) I was thinking about it this way: a weak hit heals it, but a strong hit damages it. That may be a little too complex though. I suppose I could just give it full absorb electricity powers similar to an elemental. The fire situation is unusual, and possibly unprecedented (most creatures that benefit from an energy type are immune to that type), but it's by no means illegal. Keep it, it's neat. And as for wanting a weakness to acid, you could just give it an acid vulnerability (+50% damage from acid), and put all the resistances at 10 (which is easier to remember while playing). Note that the resistance is applied before the vulnerability. That's good to know, and even resists would certainly simplify things. So, if I gave it a normal electricity absorbtion (immune and heals 1 for 3), an acid vulnerability and evened out the resistances, it'd certainly be easier to run. I'm kinda torn between 10 and 15 for the resists though. A wizard that could do 5d6 acid (e.g. acid ball) could take it out in one shot with a lucky roll with 10 resist, but I suppose if they knew to prepare that, and got that lucky, they deserve it. Ok. 10 resists sounds fine. I think I should lower its DR to 10 too. A non-magic party should still be able to defeat it without figuring out how to hit it with 8 acid flasks at once. :D I prefer the "whenever over max hp", but then again I suggested it. My reasoning has rough parallels to a Teratomorph, which gains bonus HD by eating things and splits in two upon reaching 72 HD. It makes more sense to me that they can reproduce like crazy when there're massive quantities of metal about, rather than once per day regardless of food availability. Yeah. If I do that, I think I'll remove the cap on healing from electricity though. That way, if they're crazy enough to keep blasting it, it'll keep dividing. One more question for now and it's not an important one. For the treasure, should it be no metal, 50% no nonmetal, or standard for the goods and items? (I'll keep 1/10 coins since I'm sure those got eaten already.) I can't decide if the treasure would be the undigested metal or all the other junk that it wouldn't eat or both. Is there a standard way of saying 100% if nonmetal and 10% if metal? Anyway. Thanks for all the help everyone. This creature is feeling fairly complete. If anyone decides to use it, let me know how it plays. :) I'll do the same if I get there first. ;)