Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Talisman 08-23-07, 10:13 PM	So I finally got Fiendish Codex I and started reading about the obyrith demons. Cool! Primeval creatures of raw chaos, alien to the humanoid mindset, their very forms an affront to reality...wait a minute, are these demons or aberrations? So my question is this: what does anyone think of the idea of applying obyrith traits to the aberrations? I think it's a near-perfect fit: ~Telepathy and immunity to mental effects fit perfectly with the typical aberration's alien mental powers. ~Resistance 10 to nearly everything, since the aberrations are alien to this world, and hence somewhat resistant to it. ~Fast healing and true seeing fit with the pseudonatural and half-farspawn templates in Lords of Madness ~Form of madness is just beautifully aberrant. To simplify matters, the form of madness of lower-power aberrations (5 HD or less) would all be the same: if you fail your save, you're shaken (or possibly sickened). For the big guns, I would need to invent specific and unique forms of madness. :devil: This would definitely bump their CR, but how much? I'm thinking +1 for the weaker ab's (up to 5 HD), +2 for the tougher guys. Thoughts? Opinions? Ideas?
Return of the Flumph 08-24-07, 02:35 AM	It all depends on how you want to portray aberrations in your campaign. If they are invaders from other worlds with alien-but structured-space time continuums, it would not work. If they are living fragments of cosmic nothingness that want nothing more than to destroy the world and reassimilate it into the eternal chaos before creation, it would work very well. Aberrations and obyrriths have many similarities, but (at least in the default cosmology) the parallels are superficial. Aberrations are weird because they are from weird places with physical laws unknown to us. Obyriths are weird because they represent the undoing of creation, and thus their forms and mentalities convey a sense of surrealness and disorder. Aberrations can cause madness because they are impossible for us to understand, and trying to comprehend them stretches the mind beyond its limits. Obyrriths cause madness because they like causing madness, and deliberately try to do so. Same effects, different causes. Basically, your idea is fine, but the fluff for aberrations will need to be changed.
Talisman 08-24-07, 09:53 PM	Interesting...my take on the aberrations had always been that they drive people mad because (1) they're so profoundly alien, and (2) any universe that allows them to exist must be radically different from what we mortals believe. Take Cuthulhu, the classic aberration. Cthulhu represented an age and a type of entity unknown to modern humanity. Cthulhu and his kind were so alien, so profoundly different, that the mere sight of him drove them insane. To quote the master himself..."The Thing cannot be described--there is no language for such abysms of shrieking and immemorial lunacy, such eldritch contradictions of all matter, force and cosmic order." So I guess you're right. My fluff for aberrations is different from the Official Fluff. What about crunch? Does the CR bump I described look right?
Return of the Flumph 08-24-07, 11:08 PM	Interesting...my take on the aberrations had always been that they drive people mad because (1) they're so profoundly alien, and (2) any universe that allows them to exist must be radically different from what we mortals believe. Take Cuthulhu, the classic aberration. Cthulhu represented an age and a type of entity unknown to modern humanity. Cthulhu and his kind were so alien, so profoundly different, that the mere sight of him drove them insane. To quote the master himself..."The Thing cannot be described--there is no language for such abysms of shrieking and immemorial lunacy, such eldritch contradictions of all matter, force and cosmic order." So I guess you're right. My fluff for aberrations is different from the Official Fluff. What about crunch? Does the CR bump I described look right? No, the fluff you described is EXACTLY the same as the official fluff. Aberrations induce insanity because they are impossible to understand, on account of being alien and different. Obyriths are madness incarnate, and induce insanity because they ARE insanity. Those are two completely different things. Basically, no, your aberrations should not have obyrrith traits. The kind of thematic, case-by-case mental disorders caused by the obyrriths are too deliberate and purposeful to represent the kind of "normal" madness that aberrations cause. Dealing with aberrations could cause anxiety disorders or amnesia, maybe dissacosiative disorder in extreme cases, but nowhere near as bad as the obyrriths.
Talisman 08-24-07, 11:35 PM	Basically, no, your aberrations should not have obyrrith traits. The kind of thematic, case-by-case mental disorders caused by the obyrriths are too deliberate and purposeful to represent the kind of "normal" madness that aberrations cause. Dealing with aberrations could cause anxiety disorders or amnesia, maybe dissacosiative disorder in extreme cases, but nowhere near as bad as the obyrriths. Hmm. I see your point, but I don't agree with it. I can totally see the presence of an aberration inducing madness in onlookers, with the type of madness dependant upon the species of aberration. Agree to disagree, eh? What about the mechanical aspects of this change?
Return of the Flumph 08-24-07, 11:47 PM	Hmm. I see your point, but I don't agree with it. I can totally see the presence of an aberration inducing madness in onlookers, with the type of madness dependant upon the species of aberration. Agree to disagree, eh? What about the mechanical aspects of this change? I don't understand why the type of madness would vary from aberration to aberration, as they all cause madness for the same reason. To each his own, though. The other obyrith traits make varying amounts of sense. Resistance to everything is plausible (so is vulnerability to everything, but that's no fun at all). I'm not sure where the fast healing and true seeing come into play, though.
Talisman 08-25-07, 12:16 AM	I don't understand why the type of madness would vary from aberration to aberration, as they all cause madness for the same reason. To each his own, though. Mostly because I want to set them apart, the way the obyriths are. For instance, beholder-inspired madness would manifest as eye-based paranoia: the belief that the beholder is watching through the eyes of others. Aboleth-induced madness might manifest as fear of water (like Dagon's form of madness). The other obyrith traits make varying amounts of sense. Resistance to everything is plausible (so is vulnerability to everything, but that's no fun at all). I'm not sure where the fast healing and true seeing come into play, though. True seeing relates back to Cthulhu once again. Cthulhu and his ilk represent a way of being that is "blasphemous" by human standards, yet according to Lovecraft, Cthulhu is as "natural;" a creature as we humans are. Indeed, Cthulhu is a being of a primeval age, and possessed of dark, eldritch knowledge that predates humanity. Taken together, this could indicate that the more puissant aberrations can see the world "as it really is," not as we humans believe/hope it to be. It's a stretch, but it kinda makes sense. Fast healing is just an ability that obyriths have. I could easily drop it.
Return of the Flumph 08-25-07, 01:03 AM	Well, I still think you should change the aberration fluff to link them more closely with madness and chaos before giving them these traits, but that's just my opinion and I've already shared it. Anyway, CR +1 sounds fine.
Slagger the Chuul 08-25-07, 04:07 AM	Well, I still think you should change the aberration fluff to link them more closely with madness and chaos before giving them these traits, but that's just my opinion and I've already shared it. Along that line, I would suggest making the application of obyrith traits as part of an aberration template. The result would be an aberration with stronger ties to madness. As such a template, there are no conflicts with fluff and the normal forms can still be used where appropriate.