Aberrations question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Aberrations question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
technodemon
11-21-05, 04:41 PM Do all aberrations have to be from a different plane or not? The actual text of the type does not truely answer this question, the way I read it.
mythSSK
11-21-05, 05:10 PM Of course not. Aberrations are creatures with "a bizarre anatomy, strange abilities, an alien mindset, or any combination of the three." (quoted directly from the MM). Throughout the MM itself there's plenty of aberrations that are not extraplanar in origin. What, may I ask, gave you the impression that they were?

I suspect you may mean OUTSIDERS, not aberrations. In that case, the answer is a yes with an if, or a no with a but. Yes, there can be Outsiders that aren't from a different plane, if they do have some relation to the planes and have the native subtype (see the half-celestial/half-fiend). No, there cannot be Outsiders that aren't from another plane, but there are such thing as Outsiders who were born native to the Prime Material (again, see half-celestial/half-fiend).

I hope I answered your question.
Esponer
11-21-05, 05:14 PM I suspect you may mean OUTSIDERS, not aberrations. In that case, the answer is a yes with an if, or a no with a but. Yes, there can be Outsiders that aren't from a different plane, if they do have some relation to the planes and have the native subtype (see the half-celestial/half-fiend). No, there cannot be Outsiders that aren't from another plane, but there are such thing as Outsiders who were born native to the Prime Material (again, see half-celestial/half-fiend).

I hope I answered your question.

I'm not entirely clear on your explanation, but I think it might have missed something. You can be an outsider - not a native outsider - and not be from another plane. Class abilities grant it. I've checked, and the monk's Perfect Self makes them an outsider, not a native outsider. (Despite the special exception to outsider traits that is akin to native outsiders.)

Despite the bad name with "outsider", the best way I can find to define an outsider is a being whose soul and body exists as one unit and whose being is at least partially composed of the essence of something beyond the Material Plane.
technodemon
11-21-05, 06:03 PM One is the "ailen midset" and two is that I have never seen an explanation as to the origins for some of the aberrations. Like how or who created most of them.
cwslyclgh
11-21-05, 06:07 PM "Alien mindset" simply means that they think differntly then humans do... ie why the do things is hard for us to understand, thier motivations and desires are different then a normal creatures.

the books also offer no explanation of how most magical beasts, or monstrous humaniods were created either, that does not make them originate on another plane... infact anything that comes form another plane has the extraplanar subtype, something that very few aberrations actually have.
mythSSK
11-21-05, 07:17 PM I'm not entirely clear on your explanation, but I think it might have missed something. You can be an outsider - not a native outsider - and not be from another plane. Class abilities grant it. I've checked, and the monk's Perfect Self makes them an outsider, not a native outsider. (Despite the special exception to outsider traits that is akin to native outsiders.)

Despite the bad name with "outsider", the best way I can find to define an outsider is a being whose soul and body exists as one unit and whose being is at least partially composed of the essence of something beyond the Material Plane. :embarrass I didn't really think about class abilities that grant outsider-ness. Your explanation is good.

EDIT: Wesley also raises a good point. If you're in doubt as to whether or not something originates from another plane or not, check to see if it has the 'extraplanar' subtype. The MM's are written on the assumption that all encounters are taking place on the Material Plane, so any monster with the Extraplanar subtype is from another plane.
technodemon
11-21-05, 08:41 PM Ok so an aberration can be magical (eldritch), nature, divine or planar in origin.
mythSSK
11-21-05, 10:25 PM Ok so an aberration can be magical (eldritch), nature, divine or planar in origin.Or it can be a primordial creature from the dawn of time, from an age of madness before the gods. See Aboleth.

Really, the only criteria for being an aberration is having "a bizarre (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=bizarre) anatomy, strange (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=strange) abilities, an alien (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=alien) mindset, or any combination of the three," as I said before. If it's the 'alien mindset' thing that's bugging you, remember that 'alien' has more than one definition. An alien mindset is just one that does not bear any resemblance to anything we're used to. It's alien to us.
scienceman47
11-22-05, 05:20 AM Many aberations are very Lovecraft in origin. But they are roughly native to the material plane, so here is my theory. Aberations come from a very far off point of the material plane, transported here for willingly or not for mysterious purposes. Sorta like aliens DnD style. You could base a campain about aberations as a group being partnered secretly for Aeons, about to initiate a plan of incomprehenseble evil.
technodemon
11-22-05, 06:59 AM Well i have wantinf to create a playable, non-psionic low LA aberration type race and trying to see what would be the best background for the race.
Hyrael the Dreamer
11-22-05, 02:12 PM daelkyr half-blood. MoE
savant_warlord13
11-22-05, 03:20 PM Do all aberrations have to be from a different plane or not? The actual text of the type does not truely answer this question, the way I read it.

no, they can be fromthe prime material plane
technodemon
11-22-05, 06:07 PM ok all thanks for the answers, this has been confusing for awhile now.
Shemeska the Marauder
11-22-05, 08:07 PM I'm not entirely clear on your explanation, but I think it might have missed something. You can be an outsider - not a native outsider - and not be from another plane. Class abilities grant it. I've checked, and the monk's Perfect Self makes them an outsider, not a native outsider. (Despite the special exception to outsider traits that is akin to native outsiders.)

Despite the bad name with "outsider", the best way I can find to define an outsider is a being whose soul and body exists as one unit and whose being is at least partially composed of the essence of something beyond the Material Plane.

I haven't checked in the books, but they should be native outsiders, not true outsiders. They still have a body/soul duality, which proper outsiders don't have. High level monks for instance aren't literally made of the stuff of an alignment, abstract idea, or plane like a celestial or fiend is. A fiend is a physical manifestation of one of the evil alignments, not the same material matter a normal human happens to be composed of. The fiend doesn't have a soul and a body so much as the two of those things are the same, without any degree of seperation, while a human has a wholly distinct soul and a wholly distinct physical body. A high level monk is infused to a certain degree with some essence of law, but they aren't anything to the same degree as an actual exemplar of law like modrons, parai, gear spirits, or to a lesser degree archons or baatezu, etc.

Again, I'd have to check, but I'm certain the class features make you a native outsider, not a true outsider. And if the wording doesn't specify, thematically you're a native outsider, not a true outsider, for the reasons I listed above.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
technodemon 11-21-05, 04:41 PM	Do all aberrations have to be from a different plane or not? The actual text of the type does not truely answer this question, the way I read it.
mythSSK 11-21-05, 05:10 PM	Of course not. Aberrations are creatures with "a bizarre anatomy, strange abilities, an alien mindset, or any combination of the three." (quoted directly from the MM). Throughout the MM itself there's plenty of aberrations that are not extraplanar in origin. What, may I ask, gave you the impression that they were? I suspect you may mean OUTSIDERS, not aberrations. In that case, the answer is a yes with an if, or a no with a but. Yes, there can be Outsiders that aren't from a different plane, if they do have some relation to the planes and have the native subtype (see the half-celestial/half-fiend). No, there cannot be Outsiders that aren't from another plane, but there are such thing as Outsiders who were born native to the Prime Material (again, see half-celestial/half-fiend). I hope I answered your question.
Esponer 11-21-05, 05:14 PM	I suspect you may mean OUTSIDERS, not aberrations. In that case, the answer is a yes with an if, or a no with a but. Yes, there can be Outsiders that aren't from a different plane, if they do have some relation to the planes and have the native subtype (see the half-celestial/half-fiend). No, there cannot be Outsiders that aren't from another plane, but there are such thing as Outsiders who were born native to the Prime Material (again, see half-celestial/half-fiend). I hope I answered your question. I'm not entirely clear on your explanation, but I think it might have missed something. You can be an outsider - not a native outsider - and not be from another plane. Class abilities grant it. I've checked, and the monk's Perfect Self makes them an outsider, not a native outsider. (Despite the special exception to outsider traits that is akin to native outsiders.) Despite the bad name with "outsider", the best way I can find to define an outsider is a being whose soul and body exists as one unit and whose being is at least partially composed of the essence of something beyond the Material Plane.
technodemon 11-21-05, 06:03 PM	One is the "ailen midset" and two is that I have never seen an explanation as to the origins for some of the aberrations. Like how or who created most of them.
cwslyclgh 11-21-05, 06:07 PM	"Alien mindset" simply means that they think differntly then humans do... ie why the do things is hard for us to understand, thier motivations and desires are different then a normal creatures. the books also offer no explanation of how most magical beasts, or monstrous humaniods were created either, that does not make them originate on another plane... infact anything that comes form another plane has the extraplanar subtype, something that very few aberrations actually have.
mythSSK 11-21-05, 07:17 PM	I'm not entirely clear on your explanation, but I think it might have missed something. You can be an outsider - not a native outsider - and not be from another plane. Class abilities grant it. I've checked, and the monk's Perfect Self makes them an outsider, not a native outsider. (Despite the special exception to outsider traits that is akin to native outsiders.) Despite the bad name with "outsider", the best way I can find to define an outsider is a being whose soul and body exists as one unit and whose being is at least partially composed of the essence of something beyond the Material Plane. :embarrass I didn't really think about class abilities that grant outsider-ness. Your explanation is good. EDIT: Wesley also raises a good point. If you're in doubt as to whether or not something originates from another plane or not, check to see if it has the 'extraplanar' subtype. The MM's are written on the assumption that all encounters are taking place on the Material Plane, so any monster with the Extraplanar subtype is from another plane.
technodemon 11-21-05, 08:41 PM	Ok so an aberration can be magical (eldritch), nature, divine or planar in origin.
mythSSK 11-21-05, 10:25 PM	Ok so an aberration can be magical (eldritch), nature, divine or planar in origin.Or it can be a primordial creature from the dawn of time, from an age of madness before the gods. See Aboleth. Really, the only criteria for being an aberration is having "a bizarre (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=bizarre) anatomy, strange (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=strange) abilities, an alien (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=alien) mindset, or any combination of the three," as I said before. If it's the 'alien mindset' thing that's bugging you, remember that 'alien' has more than one definition. An alien mindset is just one that does not bear any resemblance to anything we're used to. It's alien to us.
scienceman47 11-22-05, 05:20 AM	Many aberations are very Lovecraft in origin. But they are roughly native to the material plane, so here is my theory. Aberations come from a very far off point of the material plane, transported here for willingly or not for mysterious purposes. Sorta like aliens DnD style. You could base a campain about aberations as a group being partnered secretly for Aeons, about to initiate a plan of incomprehenseble evil.
technodemon 11-22-05, 06:59 AM	Well i have wantinf to create a playable, non-psionic low LA aberration type race and trying to see what would be the best background for the race.
Hyrael the Dreamer 11-22-05, 02:12 PM	daelkyr half-blood. MoE
savant_warlord13 11-22-05, 03:20 PM	Do all aberrations have to be from a different plane or not? The actual text of the type does not truely answer this question, the way I read it. no, they can be fromthe prime material plane
technodemon 11-22-05, 06:07 PM	ok all thanks for the answers, this has been confusing for awhile now.
Shemeska the Marauder 11-22-05, 08:07 PM	I'm not entirely clear on your explanation, but I think it might have missed something. You can be an outsider - not a native outsider - and not be from another plane. Class abilities grant it. I've checked, and the monk's Perfect Self makes them an outsider, not a native outsider. (Despite the special exception to outsider traits that is akin to native outsiders.) Despite the bad name with "outsider", the best way I can find to define an outsider is a being whose soul and body exists as one unit and whose being is at least partially composed of the essence of something beyond the Material Plane. I haven't checked in the books, but they should be native outsiders, not true outsiders. They still have a body/soul duality, which proper outsiders don't have. High level monks for instance aren't literally made of the stuff of an alignment, abstract idea, or plane like a celestial or fiend is. A fiend is a physical manifestation of one of the evil alignments, not the same material matter a normal human happens to be composed of. The fiend doesn't have a soul and a body so much as the two of those things are the same, without any degree of seperation, while a human has a wholly distinct soul and a wholly distinct physical body. A high level monk is infused to a certain degree with some essence of law, but they aren't anything to the same degree as an actual exemplar of law like modrons, parai, gear spirits, or to a lesser degree archons or baatezu, etc. Again, I'd have to check, but I'm certain the class features make you a native outsider, not a true outsider. And if the wording doesn't specify, thematically you're a native outsider, not a true outsider, for the reasons I listed above.