ability focus [Archive] - Wizards Community

ability focus [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Mesraic
05-10-06, 11:02 PM does taking multiple ability focus stack for increased DC on the ability? thanks
runestar
05-10-06, 11:11 PM No, they are unnamed bonuses from the same source(all the sources are named ability focus: special ability). Thus, multiple ability focus targetting the same skill(assuming you manage this somehow, since the feat explicitly prohibits you from applying it multiple times to the same ability), the bonuses will not stack.
Mesraic
05-11-06, 12:06 AM awesome thanks
Part-Human2
05-11-06, 09:52 AM In the feat description it says "A creature can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time a creature takes the feat, it applies to a different special attack."

I don't see how you could have missed it if you read the feat.
ClementWillowbreaker
05-11-06, 10:18 AM In general, if there is something you could take Ability Focus for, there is an Epic version specifically for that ability that does stack (if not printed, it is very logical to expand from others in a ruleset that needs a lot of tweaking in the first place). A monk can take AF (stunning fist) at lvl1 for +2 DC, but has to wait until lvl21 for Improved Stunning Fist [Epic] for a second +2 DC.
Balor von Balorvitch
05-11-06, 01:52 PM Any assassin is a fool not to take ablity focus death attack!
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht
05-11-06, 02:31 PM Any assassin is a fool not to take ablity focus death attack!
They would be, if doing so was actually allowed.
Raven Dark
05-11-06, 02:37 PM They would be, if doing so was actually allowed.

It is allowed...unless your DM is a stickler and forbids feats out of the Dungeon Master Guide, Monster Manual, and other DM only books.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht
05-11-06, 03:20 PM It is allowed...unless your DM is a stickler and forbids feats out of the Dungeon Master Guide, Monster Manual, and other DM only books.
Ability Focus applies to inherent abilities.
ClementWillowbreaker
05-11-06, 03:26 PM The ability applies to any "special attack" that requires a save. Guess what, class abilities qualify. There is nothing inherent required. Perhaps you are thinking of Supernatural Transformation.
Wolf72
05-11-06, 07:46 PM Choose one of the creature’s special attacks.

Prerequisite: Special attack.

this is from the SRD, it seems indicate a creature's special attack not a class feature ... key word: seems (ie I'm not taking a stand on this)
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht
05-11-06, 09:13 PM The ability applies to any "special attack" that requires a save. Guess what, class abilities qualify. There is nothing inherent required. Perhaps you are thinking of Supernatural Transformation.
Well, say goodbye to Spell Focus, since, by your logic, Ability Focus applies to all schools of magic and provides a much bigger bonus.
runestar
05-11-06, 10:22 PM Anything can qualify as a special ability - an assassin's death attack, a monk's stunning fist, even an ogre mage's spell like abilities. So long as it allows a save, it can benefit from ability focus. :)
Watchdog_of_Hades
05-11-06, 10:57 PM I'm on the side of Raven and Rune on this one. I think that "special attack" doesn't necessarily imply "inherent." In fact, aha! Complete Warrior agrees with me! Under the Knight of the Chalice example, it gives...

*snip*
SA censure demons 3/day
*snip*
Censure demons requires a save and it's under "special attacks."
Bulletproof_Condom
05-11-06, 11:07 PM Well, say goodbye to Spell Focus, since, by your logic, Ability Focus applies to all schools of magic and provides a much bigger bonus.
No, because spells aren't special attacks. They're spells.

It's in the FAQ.
runestar
05-11-06, 11:18 PM And for a little extra confirmation... :)
I noticed that the Ability Focus feat in Savage Species is
listed as a general feat instead of a monstrous feat. To me,
that implies that some class abilities are considered special
attacks. Which qualify, if this isn’t a typo?
You can use the Ability Focus feat with pretty much
anything that you can use to hurt or hinder a foe and that allows
a saving throw. A short list includes the monk’s stunning
attack, the assassin’s death attack, and the bard’s fascinate
ability. Things that don’t allow saving throws, such as sneak
attacks, aren’t affected.
Skeptic
05-11-06, 11:34 PM Now I remember why I stoped reading the FAQ.
ClementWillowbreaker
05-12-06, 09:56 AM Ability Focus does not apply to spells because spells have their own feats to alter DCs. Spell-like abilities, special attacks, etc. are covered by AF. Note that you have to take AF for each SLA, not them all at once. See the warlock.

There is nothing wrong with +2 DC once as a feat. If you don't allow players to take Ability Focus, you might as well remove feats like Dodge and Iron Will, and prepare for the same discontent for your purposeless denial of core material without justification.
Spike_Fightwicky
05-12-06, 10:14 AM Wait a sec, look at this:

SPIRIT NAGA
(snip)
Special Attacks: Charming gaze, poison, spells
(snip)

ABILITY FOCUS [GENERAL]
Prerequisite: Special attack.
Benefit: Add +2 to the DC for all saving throws against the special attack on which the creature focuses.

So a creature that can cast spells (Naga, Nymph, Sylph, Banelar, etc...) has spells listed as a Special Attack. This alone qualifies it for Ability focus. And if any ability listed under Special Attacks is NOT a special attack, then why is it listed there?

There's also not SRD definition for Special Attacks...
robertliguori
05-12-06, 10:23 AM Of course, given precedent, one could well say that the ability to cast any particular spell is a special attack. Allowing someone to take Ability Focus(Spell(Fireball)) is hardly unbalancing.
runestar
05-12-06, 10:42 AM So a creature that can cast spells (Naga, Nymph, Sylph, Banelar, etc...) has spells listed as a Special Attack. This alone qualifies it for Ability focus. And if any ability listed under Special Attacks is NOT a special attack, then why is it listed there?
I think one could apply it to spells, but then, like spell like abilities, they would have to choose a single spell to apply it to. It would not apply to all spells a creature is capable of casting. :)
Raven Dark
05-12-06, 10:58 AM Of course, given precedent, one could well say that the ability to cast any particular spell is a special attack. Allowing someone to take Ability Focus: Spell (Fireball) is hardly unbalancing.

I'm pretty certain that is the way it is supposed to work.
Part-Human2
05-12-06, 09:59 PM Well, if you guys are accepting dumb arguments for allowing this feat to apply to spells then I've got some against it.

Follow me.

Special Attacks and Special Qualities
Many creatures have unusual abilities. A monster entry breaks these abilities into special attacks and special qualities. The latter category includes defenses, vulnerabilities, and other special abilities that are not modes of attack. A special ability is either extraordinary (Ex), spell-like (Sp), or supernatural (Su). Additional information (when needed) is provided in the creature’s descriptive text.

So since it's only a Special Attack because it's in a Monster Entry, and PCs don't have Monster Entries then they can't take the feat.

Spells are neither (Ex), (Sp) or (Su) (SRD, MM, PHB, online Glossary, etc) so they don't even qualify for being a Special Ability.

Honestly, does anyone believe the intent was to hide a feat that allows +2 to Spell Save DCs in the Monster Manual then give 2 feats in the PHB that grant only +1 to Spell Save DCs each?
The Crimson Dawn
05-12-06, 10:20 PM In complete Arcane it explicitly states that a warlock can take ability focus to improve their eldrtich blasts saving throws in the book. Since that is a class ability and you can take that class at any time then I would have to say that a character can pick up that feat further some of the things mentioned thus far are not spells but spell like abilities. Remember they may be very closely related they are not the same.
runestar
05-12-06, 10:33 PM Honestly, does anyone believe the intent was to hide a feat that allows +2 to Spell Save DCs in the Monster Manual then give 2 feats in the PHB that grant only +1 to Spell Save DCs each?
It would just be +2 to the dc of a single spell, as opposed to spell focus, which gives +1dc to all spells from a school. :rolleyes: Have you even been reading our posts? :confused:
Watchdog_of_Hades
05-12-06, 11:12 PM Special Attacks and Special Qualities
Many creatures have unusual abilities. A monster entry breaks these abilities into special attacks and special qualities. The latter category includes defenses, vulnerabilities, and other special abilities that are not modes of attack. A special ability is either extraordinary (Ex), spell-like (Sp), or supernatural (Su). Additional information (when needed) is provided in the creature’s descriptive text.

So since it's only a Special Attack because it's in a Monster Entry, and PCs don't have Monster Entries then they can't take the feat.
Aha! Logic mistake! The SRD states that "monsters" is a subset of "many creatures." Easy. Does it say that "many creatures" is a subset of "monsters?" No! Since monster entries only apply to that monster and not all monsters that exist are covered in the Monster Manuals, not all creatures are monsters. So although monster entries include special attacks and qualities, those are by no means all possible attacks and qualities, and though I'm too lazy to look for it, there's a monster out there that has death attack under the "special attacks" section.

So since it's only a Special Attack because it's in a Monster Entry, and PCs don't have Monster Entries then they can't take the feat.
Watch.

Larry the first-level commoner
Medium Humanoid
Hit dice: 1d4 (2 hp)
Initiative: +0
Speed: 30 ft.
Armor Class: 10 (no modifiers), touch 10, flat-footed 10
Base Attack/Grapple: +0/+0
Attack: Unarmed strike -4 melee (1d3 nonlethal)
Full attack: Unarmed strike -4 melee (1d3 nonlethal)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: -
Special Qualities: -
Saves: Fort +0, Ref +0, Will +0
Abilities: Str 11, Dex 11, Con 11, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 10
Skills: Climb +2, Craft (basketweaving) +4, Jump +2, Perform (Dance) +4, Swim +2, Tumble +2
Feats: Athletic, Acrobatic
Environment: Towns
Organization: Single or angry, screaming mob (2-1,000)
Challenge Rating: 1/something, who cares? 4? 8?
Treasure: 1 peasant's outfit
Alignment: Neutral
Advancement: -
Level Adjustment: -

Larry's a typical commoner, though pretty good at sports.

Combat
If faced by something that looks better at fighting than he, or anything with a weapon, Larry will flee.

Ta-da! Non-standard monster with a monster entry!
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht
05-13-06, 01:00 AM It would just be +2 to the dc of a single spell, as opposed to spell focus, which gives +1dc to all spells from a school. :rolleyes: Have you even been reading our posts? :confused:
Of course. Granted, had your posts actually used some logical basis instead of saying that it's +2 to the DC of a single spell, when spells (plural) is counted as a singular special attack, we might actually take them seriously.
runestar
05-13-06, 01:37 AM Here's an example to prove my point... :)
From the dretch entry in the SRD...
Special Attacks: Spell-like abilities, summon demon
From the FAQ,
Does the Ability Focus feat (Monster Manual, page 303)
apply to spell-like abilities?
Yes, although each selection of the feat applies only to a
single spell-like ability. A dretch could select Ability Focus
(scare) or Ability Focus (stinking cloud).

So a monster can have a million SLAs, but each ability focus would only apply to one of them. By the same extension, taking ability focus for spells would apply only to a single spell you can cast, and not to all spells.

Logical enough for you? ;)
Watchdog_of_Hades
05-13-06, 10:32 AM Runestar wins.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht
05-13-06, 11:27 AM So a monster can have a million SLAs, but each ability focus would only apply to one of them. By the same extension, taking ability focus for spells would apply only to a single spell you can cast, and not to all spells.

Logical enough for you? ;)
Apples and Oranges. SLAs and spells are not the same. Indeed, they are quite different.
Watchdog_of_Hades
05-13-06, 07:43 PM It doesn't really matter how you execute the action. Here are your options. You use an ability focused SLA and get +2 DC. Or you use an ability focused S and get +2 DC. There's really no difference between an SLA Blade Barrier and an S Blade Barrier.
savant_warlord13
05-13-06, 08:15 PM click here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/giant.htm#frostGiantJarl[/URL) for evidence that class abilities can be special abilities. Just look at the frost giant Jarl.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht
05-13-06, 11:53 PM It doesn't really matter how you execute the action. Here are your options. You use an ability focused SLA and get +2 DC. Or you use an ability focused S and get +2 DC. There's really no difference between an SLA Blade Barrier and an S Blade Barrier.
Feats for SLAs and feats for spells do not work the same way. Look at Quicken Spell-Like Ability and Quicken Spell, for one example. There is an enormous difference between the two feats. SLAs and Spells are not the same thing.
savant_warlord13
05-14-06, 02:24 PM Of course. Granted, had your posts actually used some logical basis instead of saying that it's +2 to the DC of a single spell, when spells (plural) is counted as a singular special attack, we might actually take them seriously.
:doh: Of course! I can't think of any other reason WotC wouldn't list every spell the creature has! :pint:
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht
05-14-06, 03:59 PM :doh: Of course! I can't think of any other reason WotC wouldn't list every spell the creature has! :pint:
Damn, that was a pointless post. You still haven't grasped the fact that SLAs and Spells work differently. Once again, I ask you to look at Empower Spell-like Ability and Empower Spell, and then tell me the difference.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mesraic 05-10-06, 11:02 PM	does taking multiple ability focus stack for increased DC on the ability? thanks
runestar 05-10-06, 11:11 PM	No, they are unnamed bonuses from the same source(all the sources are named ability focus: special ability). Thus, multiple ability focus targetting the same skill(assuming you manage this somehow, since the feat explicitly prohibits you from applying it multiple times to the same ability), the bonuses will not stack.
Mesraic 05-11-06, 12:06 AM	awesome thanks
Part-Human2 05-11-06, 09:52 AM	In the feat description it says "A creature can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time a creature takes the feat, it applies to a different special attack." I don't see how you could have missed it if you read the feat.
ClementWillowbreaker 05-11-06, 10:18 AM	In general, if there is something you could take Ability Focus for, there is an Epic version specifically for that ability that does stack (if not printed, it is very logical to expand from others in a ruleset that needs a lot of tweaking in the first place). A monk can take AF (stunning fist) at lvl1 for +2 DC, but has to wait until lvl21 for Improved Stunning Fist [Epic] for a second +2 DC.
Balor von Balorvitch 05-11-06, 01:52 PM	Any assassin is a fool not to take ablity focus death attack!
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 05-11-06, 02:31 PM	Any assassin is a fool not to take ablity focus death attack! They would be, if doing so was actually allowed.
Raven Dark 05-11-06, 02:37 PM	They would be, if doing so was actually allowed. It is allowed...unless your DM is a stickler and forbids feats out of the Dungeon Master Guide, Monster Manual, and other DM only books.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 05-11-06, 03:20 PM	It is allowed...unless your DM is a stickler and forbids feats out of the Dungeon Master Guide, Monster Manual, and other DM only books. Ability Focus applies to inherent abilities.
ClementWillowbreaker 05-11-06, 03:26 PM	The ability applies to any "special attack" that requires a save. Guess what, class abilities qualify. There is nothing inherent required. Perhaps you are thinking of Supernatural Transformation.
Wolf72 05-11-06, 07:46 PM	Choose one of the creature’s special attacks. Prerequisite: Special attack. this is from the SRD, it seems indicate a creature's special attack not a class feature ... key word: seems (ie I'm not taking a stand on this)
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 05-11-06, 09:13 PM	The ability applies to any "special attack" that requires a save. Guess what, class abilities qualify. There is nothing inherent required. Perhaps you are thinking of Supernatural Transformation. Well, say goodbye to Spell Focus, since, by your logic, Ability Focus applies to all schools of magic and provides a much bigger bonus.
runestar 05-11-06, 10:22 PM	Anything can qualify as a special ability - an assassin's death attack, a monk's stunning fist, even an ogre mage's spell like abilities. So long as it allows a save, it can benefit from ability focus. :)
Watchdog_of_Hades 05-11-06, 10:57 PM	I'm on the side of Raven and Rune on this one. I think that "special attack" doesn't necessarily imply "inherent." In fact, aha! Complete Warrior agrees with me! Under the Knight of the Chalice example, it gives... snip SA censure demons 3/day snip Censure demons requires a save and it's under "special attacks."
Bulletproof_Condom 05-11-06, 11:07 PM	Well, say goodbye to Spell Focus, since, by your logic, Ability Focus applies to all schools of magic and provides a much bigger bonus. No, because spells aren't special attacks. They're spells. It's in the FAQ.
runestar 05-11-06, 11:18 PM	And for a little extra confirmation... :) I noticed that the Ability Focus feat in Savage Species is listed as a general feat instead of a monstrous feat. To me, that implies that some class abilities are considered special attacks. Which qualify, if this isn’t a typo? You can use the Ability Focus feat with pretty much anything that you can use to hurt or hinder a foe and that allows a saving throw. A short list includes the monk’s stunning attack, the assassin’s death attack, and the bard’s fascinate ability. Things that don’t allow saving throws, such as sneak attacks, aren’t affected.
Skeptic 05-11-06, 11:34 PM	Now I remember why I stoped reading the FAQ.
ClementWillowbreaker 05-12-06, 09:56 AM	Ability Focus does not apply to spells because spells have their own feats to alter DCs. Spell-like abilities, special attacks, etc. are covered by AF. Note that you have to take AF for each SLA, not them all at once. See the warlock. There is nothing wrong with +2 DC once as a feat. If you don't allow players to take Ability Focus, you might as well remove feats like Dodge and Iron Will, and prepare for the same discontent for your purposeless denial of core material without justification.
Spike_Fightwicky 05-12-06, 10:14 AM	Wait a sec, look at this: SPIRIT NAGA (snip) Special Attacks: Charming gaze, poison, spells (snip) ABILITY FOCUS [GENERAL] Prerequisite: Special attack. Benefit: Add +2 to the DC for all saving throws against the special attack on which the creature focuses. So a creature that can cast spells (Naga, Nymph, Sylph, Banelar, etc...) has spells listed as a Special Attack. This alone qualifies it for Ability focus. And if any ability listed under Special Attacks is NOT a special attack, then why is it listed there? There's also not SRD definition for Special Attacks...
robertliguori 05-12-06, 10:23 AM	Of course, given precedent, one could well say that the ability to cast any particular spell is a special attack. Allowing someone to take Ability Focus(Spell(Fireball)) is hardly unbalancing.
runestar 05-12-06, 10:42 AM	So a creature that can cast spells (Naga, Nymph, Sylph, Banelar, etc...) has spells listed as a Special Attack. This alone qualifies it for Ability focus. And if any ability listed under Special Attacks is NOT a special attack, then why is it listed there? I think one could apply it to spells, but then, like spell like abilities, they would have to choose a single spell to apply it to. It would not apply to all spells a creature is capable of casting. :)
Raven Dark 05-12-06, 10:58 AM	Of course, given precedent, one could well say that the ability to cast any particular spell is a special attack. Allowing someone to take Ability Focus: Spell (Fireball) is hardly unbalancing. I'm pretty certain that is the way it is supposed to work.
Part-Human2 05-12-06, 09:59 PM	Well, if you guys are accepting dumb arguments for allowing this feat to apply to spells then I've got some against it. Follow me. Special Attacks and Special Qualities Many creatures have unusual abilities. A monster entry breaks these abilities into special attacks and special qualities. The latter category includes defenses, vulnerabilities, and other special abilities that are not modes of attack. A special ability is either extraordinary (Ex), spell-like (Sp), or supernatural (Su). Additional information (when needed) is provided in the creature’s descriptive text. So since it's only a Special Attack because it's in a Monster Entry, and PCs don't have Monster Entries then they can't take the feat. Spells are neither (Ex), (Sp) or (Su) (SRD, MM, PHB, online Glossary, etc) so they don't even qualify for being a Special Ability. Honestly, does anyone believe the intent was to hide a feat that allows +2 to Spell Save DCs in the Monster Manual then give 2 feats in the PHB that grant only +1 to Spell Save DCs each?
The Crimson Dawn 05-12-06, 10:20 PM	In complete Arcane it explicitly states that a warlock can take ability focus to improve their eldrtich blasts saving throws in the book. Since that is a class ability and you can take that class at any time then I would have to say that a character can pick up that feat further some of the things mentioned thus far are not spells but spell like abilities. Remember they may be very closely related they are not the same.
runestar 05-12-06, 10:33 PM	Honestly, does anyone believe the intent was to hide a feat that allows +2 to Spell Save DCs in the Monster Manual then give 2 feats in the PHB that grant only +1 to Spell Save DCs each? It would just be +2 to the dc of a single spell, as opposed to spell focus, which gives +1dc to all spells from a school. :rolleyes: Have you even been reading our posts? :confused:
Watchdog_of_Hades 05-12-06, 11:12 PM	Special Attacks and Special Qualities Many creatures have unusual abilities. A monster entry breaks these abilities into special attacks and special qualities. The latter category includes defenses, vulnerabilities, and other special abilities that are not modes of attack. A special ability is either extraordinary (Ex), spell-like (Sp), or supernatural (Su). Additional information (when needed) is provided in the creature’s descriptive text. So since it's only a Special Attack because it's in a Monster Entry, and PCs don't have Monster Entries then they can't take the feat. Aha! Logic mistake! The SRD states that "monsters" is a subset of "many creatures." Easy. Does it say that "many creatures" is a subset of "monsters?" No! Since monster entries only apply to that monster and not all monsters that exist are covered in the Monster Manuals, not all creatures are monsters. So although monster entries include special attacks and qualities, those are by no means all possible attacks and qualities, and though I'm too lazy to look for it, there's a monster out there that has death attack under the "special attacks" section. So since it's only a Special Attack because it's in a Monster Entry, and PCs don't have Monster Entries then they can't take the feat. Watch. Larry the first-level commoner Medium Humanoid Hit dice: 1d4 (2 hp) Initiative: +0 Speed: 30 ft. Armor Class: 10 (no modifiers), touch 10, flat-footed 10 Base Attack/Grapple: +0/+0 Attack: Unarmed strike -4 melee (1d3 nonlethal) Full attack: Unarmed strike -4 melee (1d3 nonlethal) Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft. Special Attacks: - Special Qualities: - Saves: Fort +0, Ref +0, Will +0 Abilities: Str 11, Dex 11, Con 11, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 10 Skills: Climb +2, Craft (basketweaving) +4, Jump +2, Perform (Dance) +4, Swim +2, Tumble +2 Feats: Athletic, Acrobatic Environment: Towns Organization: Single or angry, screaming mob (2-1,000) Challenge Rating: 1/something, who cares? 4? 8? Treasure: 1 peasant's outfit Alignment: Neutral Advancement: - Level Adjustment: - Larry's a typical commoner, though pretty good at sports. Combat If faced by something that looks better at fighting than he, or anything with a weapon, Larry will flee. Ta-da! Non-standard monster with a monster entry!
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 05-13-06, 01:00 AM	It would just be +2 to the dc of a single spell, as opposed to spell focus, which gives +1dc to all spells from a school. :rolleyes: Have you even been reading our posts? :confused: Of course. Granted, had your posts actually used some logical basis instead of saying that it's +2 to the DC of a single spell, when spells (plural) is counted as a singular special attack, we might actually take them seriously.
runestar 05-13-06, 01:37 AM	Here's an example to prove my point... :) From the dretch entry in the SRD... Special Attacks: Spell-like abilities, summon demon From the FAQ, Does the Ability Focus feat (Monster Manual, page 303) apply to spell-like abilities? Yes, although each selection of the feat applies only to a single spell-like ability. A dretch could select Ability Focus (scare) or Ability Focus (stinking cloud). So a monster can have a million SLAs, but each ability focus would only apply to one of them. By the same extension, taking ability focus for spells would apply only to a single spell you can cast, and not to all spells. Logical enough for you? ;)
Watchdog_of_Hades 05-13-06, 10:32 AM	Runestar wins.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 05-13-06, 11:27 AM	So a monster can have a million SLAs, but each ability focus would only apply to one of them. By the same extension, taking ability focus for spells would apply only to a single spell you can cast, and not to all spells. Logical enough for you? ;) Apples and Oranges. SLAs and spells are not the same. Indeed, they are quite different.
Watchdog_of_Hades 05-13-06, 07:43 PM	It doesn't really matter how you execute the action. Here are your options. You use an ability focused SLA and get +2 DC. Or you use an ability focused S and get +2 DC. There's really no difference between an SLA Blade Barrier and an S Blade Barrier.
savant_warlord13 05-13-06, 08:15 PM	click here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/giant.htm#frostGiantJarl[/URL) for evidence that class abilities can be special abilities. Just look at the frost giant Jarl.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 05-13-06, 11:53 PM	It doesn't really matter how you execute the action. Here are your options. You use an ability focused SLA and get +2 DC. Or you use an ability focused S and get +2 DC. There's really no difference between an SLA Blade Barrier and an S Blade Barrier. Feats for SLAs and feats for spells do not work the same way. Look at Quicken Spell-Like Ability and Quicken Spell, for one example. There is an enormous difference between the two feats. SLAs and Spells are not the same thing.
savant_warlord13 05-14-06, 02:24 PM	Of course. Granted, had your posts actually used some logical basis instead of saying that it's +2 to the DC of a single spell, when spells (plural) is counted as a singular special attack, we might actually take them seriously. :doh: Of course! I can't think of any other reason WotC wouldn't list every spell the creature has! :pint:
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 05-14-06, 03:59 PM	:doh: Of course! I can't think of any other reason WotC wouldn't list every spell the creature has! :pint: Damn, that was a pointless post. You still haven't grasped the fact that SLAs and Spells work differently. Once again, I ask you to look at Empower Spell-like Ability and Empower Spell, and then tell me the difference.