Ability points and CR [Archive] - Wizards Community

Ability points and CR [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Saint Sinister
12-21-03, 11:25 AM Let's say I give a monster a + to a ability score like +4 to dex or +6 do you think would raise the CR?
Boondoggle
12-21-03, 01:29 PM Probably not, but it might have more or less of an impact depending upon which ability score for which monster.
bitnine
12-21-03, 01:48 PM I once heard someone say something about using different stat generation system as, say, an ECL template, but I don't remember the specifics of that discussion. Unfortunately, I would bet that it got pruned.
SirGog
12-22-03, 03:46 AM I think that's still in Regdar's Repository.

As a general rule of thumb, adding 6 to an important ability score should increase a melee creature's CR by one. Adding 4 to an important score should increase the CR of a creature with powerful special abilities by 1 (for example, a mind flayer getting +4 Cha, which adds 2 to most of its save DCs).

But this is an approximation, obviously. Actual testing is the only way to be sure.
the_heart
12-22-03, 04:36 AM a +4 increase would be unlikely to affect CR, but it may warrant an ad hoc XP increase of from 5% to (for example the mindflayer)+15% or even higher if the stat increase makes a large impact.

generally it would require a very large stat increase (+8 or more) to raise CR, or a number of smaller stat increases. (for example +4,+4,+2+2,-2(elite array) is a +1CR)

+6 stat boost is borderline between the two, but i would tend to stick to the ad hoc award.
Walter Russ
01-18-04, 02:01 AM The Monster Manual 3.5 says to add +1 CR if the monster has the elite ability array, which is to say the scores are considered to be 15/14/13/12/10/8 before racial adjustments.

A "standard" monster is considered to have all 10's and 11's before racial adjustments, so they're adding +4 to two scores, +2 to two scores and -2 to one score, and this amounts to a +1 CR with a "net" adjustment of +10 to the scores.

A nonelite array is 13/12/11/10/9/8 before racial adjustments, which amounts to +2 to two scores and -2 to two scores. A "net" adjustment of zero and no CR adjustment.

Finally, if the monster has any class levels, the elite array enhancements do not amount to any CR adjustment.

How would a +6 ability score fit in with all this? There isn't an "official" rule on CR's outside the standard/elite arrays, so you really have to take an educated guess or playtest it. I would say generally though, one score at +6 usually wouldn't change the CR, but a +6 and a +4 to another ability probably would.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Saint Sinister 12-21-03, 11:25 AM	Let's say I give a monster a + to a ability score like +4 to dex or +6 do you think would raise the CR?
Boondoggle 12-21-03, 01:29 PM	Probably not, but it might have more or less of an impact depending upon which ability score for which monster.
bitnine 12-21-03, 01:48 PM	I once heard someone say something about using different stat generation system as, say, an ECL template, but I don't remember the specifics of that discussion. Unfortunately, I would bet that it got pruned.
SirGog 12-22-03, 03:46 AM	I think that's still in Regdar's Repository. As a general rule of thumb, adding 6 to an important ability score should increase a melee creature's CR by one. Adding 4 to an important score should increase the CR of a creature with powerful special abilities by 1 (for example, a mind flayer getting +4 Cha, which adds 2 to most of its save DCs). But this is an approximation, obviously. Actual testing is the only way to be sure.
the_heart 12-22-03, 04:36 AM	a +4 increase would be unlikely to affect CR, but it may warrant an ad hoc XP increase of from 5% to (for example the mindflayer)+15% or even higher if the stat increase makes a large impact. generally it would require a very large stat increase (+8 or more) to raise CR, or a number of smaller stat increases. (for example +4,+4,+2+2,-2(elite array) is a +1CR) +6 stat boost is borderline between the two, but i would tend to stick to the ad hoc award.
Walter Russ 01-18-04, 02:01 AM	The Monster Manual 3.5 says to add +1 CR if the monster has the elite ability array, which is to say the scores are considered to be 15/14/13/12/10/8 before racial adjustments. A "standard" monster is considered to have all 10's and 11's before racial adjustments, so they're adding +4 to two scores, +2 to two scores and -2 to one score, and this amounts to a +1 CR with a "net" adjustment of +10 to the scores. A nonelite array is 13/12/11/10/9/8 before racial adjustments, which amounts to +2 to two scores and -2 to two scores. A "net" adjustment of zero and no CR adjustment. Finally, if the monster has any class levels, the elite array enhancements do not amount to any CR adjustment. How would a +6 ability score fit in with all this? There isn't an "official" rule on CR's outside the standard/elite arrays, so you really have to take an educated guess or playtest it. I would say generally though, one score at +6 usually wouldn't change the CR, but a +6 and a +4 to another ability probably would.