About the Elephants... [Archive] - Wizards Community

About the Elephants... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Morka
10-23-04, 06:45 PM The Monster Manual says that elephants have a slam attack; is it with the side of their tusks, or with their trunk?
Azzedar
10-23-04, 07:41 PM It could be either with their leg, tusk, or trunk as far as I'm concerned...interchangeably...

the trunk seems less likely

It could be a core with the tusk also since they are quite blunt
The Happy Gank
10-23-04, 11:50 PM Those are all possibilities, though the legs and tusks would probably be covered under "stamp" and "gore" damage respectively. I'd like to bring up another possibility that might sound strange at first...the forehead.

Elephants in the wild occasionally slam their foreheads into trees to knock them down for nourishment. However, elephants will also sometimes use their foreheads to knock perceived threats to the ground, and then allow much of their weight to rest on their forehead to attempt to crush the victim of the attack. It's happened more than once in the deaths of zookeepers and circus workers who are responsible for handling elephants...

Just a thought...it might make sense in DnD that a charging elephant hitting you with its forehead could cause as much as 2d6+10 slam damage.
Arakano
10-24-04, 07:00 AM Yes, that sounds plausible. Still, I also remember hearing that elephants use their trunk in combat.
Mithral Icesilver
10-24-04, 02:42 PM Which brings up another point: why don't elephants have a constrict attack?
Morka
10-24-04, 04:01 PM Those are all possibilities, though the legs and tusks would probably be covered under "stamp" and "gore" damage respectively. I'd like to bring up another possibility that might sound strange at first...the forehead.

An elephant full attack is either a slam and two stamps, or a gore attack. Since they can't use the slam and the gore at the same time, I was thinking the slam might be the side of the tusk. My problem is if I want to create an elephant with BIG tusks, worth $$$ on the ivory market; at first, I wanted to give the elephant the feat Improved Natural Attack: gore. But will it affect the slam attack, since it is the same "weapon"?
The Happy Gank
10-24-04, 05:53 PM Which brings up another point: why don't elephants have a constrict attack?

Well, mainly because despite the fact that the trunk in extremely flexible with roughly 100,000 muscle units in it, elephants don't tend to use their trunks in battle. Consider the fact that the trunk is basically an elephant's only way to pick up food and water to transfer these items to the mouth. An elephant with a severely damaged trunk is almost always doomed to quickly become a dead elephant. Therefore, in most cases, the closest an elephant will use its trunk in battle is to warn off a perceived threat. It's said that if an elephant charges you with its trunk outstretched, its attack is a bluff...if the trunk is tucked down, you better beware.
Mithral Icesilver
10-25-04, 05:26 PM Ah. Thanks.
Kyy'Dakh
10-25-04, 05:27 PM It's said that if an elephant charges you with its trunk outstretched, its attack is a bluff...if the trunk is tucked down, you better beware.

That's certainly an interesting hypothesis. Forgive me if I don't go out and test it personally.
The Happy Gank
10-25-04, 07:01 PM That's certainly an interesting hypothesis. Forgive me if I don't go out and test it personally.

I'd actually be frightened if someone would go out to test the limits of that theory personally... :eek:
Kyy'Dakh
10-26-04, 12:19 PM Precisely the nature of the joke.
Rotipher
10-26-04, 01:05 PM An elephant's slam attack is probably just that: a body (or forehead, if you're directly in front of it) slam, using its tremendous bulk to down opponents by sheer impact. That's how many fatal injuries caused by captive elephants occur IRL, i.e. elephant isn't paying enough attention to its keeper's location and accidentally squishes the life out of them, by shoving the fragile human up against a wall or other obstacle.
The Happy Gank
10-26-04, 01:10 PM Precisely the nature of the joke.

Exactly...I knew you were joking. :)
The Happy Gank
10-26-04, 01:12 PM An elephant's slam attack is probably just that: a body (or forehead, if you're directly in front of it) slam, using its tremendous bulk to down opponents by sheer impact. That's how many fatal injuries caused by captive elephants occur IRL, i.e. elephant isn't paying enough attention to its keeper's location and accidentally squishes the life out of them, by shoving the fragile human up against a wall or other obstacle.

I couldn't agree more, Rotipher. That's precisely the sort of message I was trying to get across.
moosekickedmysisterstoof
10-27-04, 02:59 PM Actually, I have seen accounts of elephants using their trunks in combat. I've never seen them use it on anything larger than a human, but I have observed them (on "When Animals Attack") swatting and tossing folks with the powerful proboscis. Also, I have read about a few accounts in which elephants have seized unfortunate people with their trunks and mangled them quite horribly. In 2nd addition, elephants did actually have a constrict attack, but I would argue that it would merely be considered a successful grapple check and slam damage. Personally, I believe that elephants should have improved grab with their slam attack, but that's me.

- Johnny
The Happy Gank
10-27-04, 06:30 PM Actually, I have seen accounts of elephants using their trunks in combat. I've never seen them use it on anything larger than a human, but I have observed them (on "When Animals Attack") swatting and tossing folks with the powerful proboscis. Also, I have read about a few accounts in which elephants have seized unfortunate people with their trunks and mangled them quite horribly. In 2nd addition, elephants did actually have a constrict attack, but I would argue that it would merely be considered a successful grapple check and slam damage. Personally, I believe that elephants should have improved grab with their slam attack, but that's me.

- Johnny

Agreed...there have been some instances where elephants will swat at someone with their trunk(s), but again, it's a very rare occurrence due to the facts that I've stated previously regarding the drawbacks of using the trunk as a weapon.
Ogre4Hire
10-28-04, 04:25 PM In a related note, the Wooly Mammoth in Frostburn was given Improved Grab (with its tusks) and Toss special attacks. If it was grappling a foe, it could make a Toss attack that was resolved like a Bull-Rush, except that the Mammoth didn't need to move.
The Happy Gank
11-01-04, 07:46 AM I saw an interesting show last night that gives some credence to the idea of elephants using their tusks in a slam attack...

In the prehistoric past of North America, there was a relative of the elephant known as the Colombian Mammoth. On the show, a biomechanical mock-up of a mammoth was created in order to show what sort of dangers prehistoric man faced when hunting the big game of America. A couple of stunt-people were willing to let this machine throw them as far as it could with a slam from the side of one of its tusks. As seen in the show, a stuntman was thrown 25 feet into the air and roughly 30 feet away from the machine with a full slam. The stuntman ended up hitting the mats he was supposed to land on wrong was slightly injured. If that's not a testament to this particular "creature's" strength, I don't know what is...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Morka 10-23-04, 06:45 PM	The Monster Manual says that elephants have a slam attack; is it with the side of their tusks, or with their trunk?
Azzedar 10-23-04, 07:41 PM	It could be either with their leg, tusk, or trunk as far as I'm concerned...interchangeably... the trunk seems less likely It could be a core with the tusk also since they are quite blunt
The Happy Gank 10-23-04, 11:50 PM	Those are all possibilities, though the legs and tusks would probably be covered under "stamp" and "gore" damage respectively. I'd like to bring up another possibility that might sound strange at first...the forehead. Elephants in the wild occasionally slam their foreheads into trees to knock them down for nourishment. However, elephants will also sometimes use their foreheads to knock perceived threats to the ground, and then allow much of their weight to rest on their forehead to attempt to crush the victim of the attack. It's happened more than once in the deaths of zookeepers and circus workers who are responsible for handling elephants... Just a thought...it might make sense in DnD that a charging elephant hitting you with its forehead could cause as much as 2d6+10 slam damage.
Arakano 10-24-04, 07:00 AM	Yes, that sounds plausible. Still, I also remember hearing that elephants use their trunk in combat.
Mithral Icesilver 10-24-04, 02:42 PM	Which brings up another point: why don't elephants have a constrict attack?
Morka 10-24-04, 04:01 PM	Those are all possibilities, though the legs and tusks would probably be covered under "stamp" and "gore" damage respectively. I'd like to bring up another possibility that might sound strange at first...the forehead. An elephant full attack is either a slam and two stamps, or a gore attack. Since they can't use the slam and the gore at the same time, I was thinking the slam might be the side of the tusk. My problem is if I want to create an elephant with BIG tusks, worth $$$ on the ivory market; at first, I wanted to give the elephant the feat Improved Natural Attack: gore. But will it affect the slam attack, since it is the same "weapon"?
The Happy Gank 10-24-04, 05:53 PM	Which brings up another point: why don't elephants have a constrict attack? Well, mainly because despite the fact that the trunk in extremely flexible with roughly 100,000 muscle units in it, elephants don't tend to use their trunks in battle. Consider the fact that the trunk is basically an elephant's only way to pick up food and water to transfer these items to the mouth. An elephant with a severely damaged trunk is almost always doomed to quickly become a dead elephant. Therefore, in most cases, the closest an elephant will use its trunk in battle is to warn off a perceived threat. It's said that if an elephant charges you with its trunk outstretched, its attack is a bluff...if the trunk is tucked down, you better beware.
Mithral Icesilver 10-25-04, 05:26 PM	Ah. Thanks.
Kyy'Dakh 10-25-04, 05:27 PM	It's said that if an elephant charges you with its trunk outstretched, its attack is a bluff...if the trunk is tucked down, you better beware. That's certainly an interesting hypothesis. Forgive me if I don't go out and test it personally.
The Happy Gank 10-25-04, 07:01 PM	That's certainly an interesting hypothesis. Forgive me if I don't go out and test it personally. I'd actually be frightened if someone would go out to test the limits of that theory personally... :eek:
Kyy'Dakh 10-26-04, 12:19 PM	Precisely the nature of the joke.
Rotipher 10-26-04, 01:05 PM	An elephant's slam attack is probably just that: a body (or forehead, if you're directly in front of it) slam, using its tremendous bulk to down opponents by sheer impact. That's how many fatal injuries caused by captive elephants occur IRL, i.e. elephant isn't paying enough attention to its keeper's location and accidentally squishes the life out of them, by shoving the fragile human up against a wall or other obstacle.
The Happy Gank 10-26-04, 01:10 PM	Precisely the nature of the joke. Exactly...I knew you were joking. :)
The Happy Gank 10-26-04, 01:12 PM	An elephant's slam attack is probably just that: a body (or forehead, if you're directly in front of it) slam, using its tremendous bulk to down opponents by sheer impact. That's how many fatal injuries caused by captive elephants occur IRL, i.e. elephant isn't paying enough attention to its keeper's location and accidentally squishes the life out of them, by shoving the fragile human up against a wall or other obstacle. I couldn't agree more, Rotipher. That's precisely the sort of message I was trying to get across.
moosekickedmysisterstoof 10-27-04, 02:59 PM	Actually, I have seen accounts of elephants using their trunks in combat. I've never seen them use it on anything larger than a human, but I have observed them (on "When Animals Attack") swatting and tossing folks with the powerful proboscis. Also, I have read about a few accounts in which elephants have seized unfortunate people with their trunks and mangled them quite horribly. In 2nd addition, elephants did actually have a constrict attack, but I would argue that it would merely be considered a successful grapple check and slam damage. Personally, I believe that elephants should have improved grab with their slam attack, but that's me. - Johnny
The Happy Gank 10-27-04, 06:30 PM	Actually, I have seen accounts of elephants using their trunks in combat. I've never seen them use it on anything larger than a human, but I have observed them (on "When Animals Attack") swatting and tossing folks with the powerful proboscis. Also, I have read about a few accounts in which elephants have seized unfortunate people with their trunks and mangled them quite horribly. In 2nd addition, elephants did actually have a constrict attack, but I would argue that it would merely be considered a successful grapple check and slam damage. Personally, I believe that elephants should have improved grab with their slam attack, but that's me. - Johnny Agreed...there have been some instances where elephants will swat at someone with their trunk(s), but again, it's a very rare occurrence due to the facts that I've stated previously regarding the drawbacks of using the trunk as a weapon.
Ogre4Hire 10-28-04, 04:25 PM	In a related note, the Wooly Mammoth in Frostburn was given Improved Grab (with its tusks) and Toss special attacks. If it was grappling a foe, it could make a Toss attack that was resolved like a Bull-Rush, except that the Mammoth didn't need to move.
The Happy Gank 11-01-04, 07:46 AM	I saw an interesting show last night that gives some credence to the idea of elephants using their tusks in a slam attack... In the prehistoric past of North America, there was a relative of the elephant known as the Colombian Mammoth. On the show, a biomechanical mock-up of a mammoth was created in order to show what sort of dangers prehistoric man faced when hunting the big game of America. A couple of stunt-people were willing to let this machine throw them as far as it could with a slam from the side of one of its tusks. As seen in the show, a stuntman was thrown 25 feet into the air and roughly 30 feet away from the machine with a full slam. The stuntman ended up hitting the mats he was supposed to land on wrong was slightly injured. If that's not a testament to this particular "creature's" strength, I don't know what is...