Post/Author/DateTime	Post
darkwolf33333 01-22-05, 09:07 PM	there are five pc's so far in my campain. all at level ten. another one of my frieds wants to join the campain. problem; he wants to be the most powerful of all lycans: a werewolf lord. and i agreed thinking it would be fun. so far i made up the sheets my self and while in human for his attack damage is 1d8+4 with a longsword. and when transformed in to hybrid wolf form its 1d8+11. not to mention that most his stats in hybrid form are above twenty five, and his strenth above thirty. the strongest pc in the group highest stat is twenty. i dont think a level forty npc can compete with this new pc. after creating his sheets, only one thought went through my mind what the hell did i get my self into this time. if i level him down then he'll have to be in hybrid form for most of the adventures, and that wont do. mainly because in what city are the npc's going to let a werewolf just walk in like a normal person. from everyones knowledge especially in my campain most werewolves are evil killers, and they don't know that he's of a good alignment. back to the topic at hand, i was thinking about creating a very high level boss, and almost defeating all the pc's, so that his rage would trigger his transformation and then he could fully explore his powers, but besids that i cant think about any thing elese. if any one had to deal with this in their campains i could really use some pointers. please if any knows what i should do about this tell me, because i have no clue what to do. p.s. this is the fixed version of my post sorry if the first was hard to understand
Vanigo 01-23-05, 01:35 AM	Well, I don't know what 1d6+18/13 and 24/20+1d6 mean, and I certainly don't know why his longsword is apparently doing a d6, but I think I do know what your problem is. A werewolf lord has an effective character level of 9 + class levels. That means that to be on par with your other players, the werewolf lord should be first level. If he's tenth level, of course he's going to be more powerful. A first level werewolf lord fighter isn't all that bad; he's only going to have 7 hit dice, and only one attack a round. He'll be tough, but not that far from the other characters.
lord_faust6979 01-23-05, 02:49 AM	The only thing I can really think of is to create an event in which he is "powered down" to a regular werewolf and make it so that part of the quest (for him) is to find a way to overcome what ever it was that weakened him and restore him to his rightful status of werewolf lord. But if you were thinking more along the lines of adjusting his level and/or stats, well .... I can't really help you there because i don't know that stats of the other Pcs' or the ratio of enemy levels vs. pc levels. Anywho I hoped that helped and good luck!!
imperialjunkie 01-23-05, 10:53 AM	from everyones knowledge especially in my campain most werewolves are evil killers, and they don't know that he's of a good alignment. I was just looking into building a lycanthrope PC for the first time last night and I saw your post. Question: how can a werewolf lord be of good alignment? According to the MM, once a lycanthrope changes shape willingly, his/her alignment is automatically changed to the alignment of the type of lycanthrope. I know that with other builds that aren't in the MM you could probably be flexible, but the werewolf lord specifically says "always chaotic evil." Not meaning to be nitpicky... I just want to understand as I want to build a lycanthrope myself. That said, do you all think that a were-eagle would be able to fly in hybrid? Same flying stats as a the animal form? Thanks for any input. Oh... and what alignment? Neutral Good or Lawful Good? EDIT: The quote in the MM, pg. 178: "A character with awareness of his condition retains his identity and does not lose control of his actions if he changes. However, each time he changes to his animal form, he must make a Will save (DC 15+number of times he has been in animal form) or permanently assume the alignment of his animal form in all shapes... Any voluntary change to animal or hybrid form immediatley and permanently changes the character's alignment to that of the appropriate lycanthrope."
darkwolf33333 01-23-05, 12:55 PM	I was just looking into building a lycanthrope PC for the first time last night and I saw your post. Question: how can a werewolf lord be of good alignment? According to the MM, once a lycanthrope changes shape willingly, his/her alignment is automatically changed to the alignment of the type of lycanthrope. I know that with other builds that aren't in the MM you could probably be flexible, but the werewolf lord specifically says "always chaotic evil." Not meaning to be nitpicky... I just want to understand as I want to build a lycanthrope myself. That said, do you all think that a were-eagle would be able to fly in hybrid? Same flying stats as a the animal form? Thanks for any input. Oh... and what alignment? Neutral Good or Lawful Good? EDIT: The quote in the MM, pg. 178: "A character with awareness of his condition retains his identity and does not lose control of his actions if he changes. However, each time he changes to his animal form, he must make a Will save (DC 15+number of times he has been in animal form) or permanently assume the alignment of his animal form in all shapes... Any voluntary change to animal or hybrid form immediatley and permanently changes the character's alignment to that of the appropriate lycanthrope." darkwolf33333: if you the dm (like me), your god of the game. aliments don't matter. you could have a fluke like my friend who whants to be the werewolf lord and still be good. on the other hand i remember the MM saying that alignment of the animal not lycanthrope, so thats neutral for a dire werewolf, but hey its been some time since i read the book so i could be wrong. i believe that you can fly as a were-eagle in hybrid form. just think of it as a Avoral, or an angel. i think that neutral good is a good alignment for an eagle because their free spirit. but take into account that your medium size not small or tiny, when calculating his flying stats. if you have any more questions on lycans email me at darkwolf33333@yhaoo.com. :D
imperialjunkie 01-23-05, 01:21 PM	The principle in the MM is that the alignment of the lycanthrope is based on the subjective impression of the base animal. They mentioned rats, snakes, and wolves as evil, and bears, eagles, and lions as good. This is subjective. But they do list the classic examples of lycanthrope in the MM, and werewolves are chaotic evil, wererats are lawful evil, wereboars & weretigers are neutral, and wearbears are lawful good. The werewolf lord was chaotic evil as well. The listing for each lycanthropes is "always [alignment]." Of course this is up to each DM, but I think the idea behind the fixed alignment and the change to PCs is because of the nature of the disease or 'curse.' It is so strong a force on the person that it changes their nature and personality. The classic horror example fits here. Guy becomes werewolf and begins uncontrollably killing those he cares about or the innocent. Becomes wracked with guilt. Eventually changes him. The character I'm thinking of making was once an evil mercenary fighter who was attacked by a werebear (or werelion or were-eagle... can't decide) and thus became a good creature because of the effect of the disease. Like you said, it's up to the DM though.
Blane 01-23-05, 02:02 PM	IMO you should of just said no.... having a lycan pc is sheer hell- worse then CE Barbarians. In the adventure im currently in, my DM let another player play as a lv1 ranger Were tiger which is just annoying for many reasons. Also the best way to add him- if you still want to, is to base part of your adventure around lycans and he can just jump our and save the day or something.....
Chazmon 01-23-05, 02:14 PM	[QUOTE=Blane]IMO you should of just said no.... having a lycan pc is sheer hell- worse then CE Barbarians. QUOTE] I disagree im a natural lyncan werebear / wizard in my group, i joined the party late as an aprentice to a wizard they met and he warned the group to keep some silver weapons and hold person spells. It makes me a powerfull combatant but leads to cool roleplaying situations for the other PC's It wasnt easy at first but was satisfying to overcome the problems and far less destructive than a lot of the thiefs we have had in the group. Chazmon
darkwolf33333 01-23-05, 03:35 PM	The principle in the MM is that the alignment of the lycanthrope is based on the subjective impression of the base animal. They mentioned rats, snakes, and wolves as evil, and bears, eagles, and lions as good. This is subjective. But they do list the classic examples of lycanthrope in the MM, and werewolves are chaotic evil, wererats are lawful evil, wereboars & weretigers are neutral, and wearbears are lawful good. The werewolf lord was chaotic evil as well. The listing for each lycanthropes is "always [alignment]." Of course this is up to each DM, but I think the idea behind the fixed alignment and the change to PCs is because of the nature of the disease or 'curse.' It is so strong a force on the person that it changes their nature and personality. The classic horror example fits here. Guy becomes werewolf and begins uncontrollably killing those he cares about or the innocent. Becomes wracked with guilt. Eventually changes him. The character I'm thinking of making was once an evil mercenary fighter who was attacked by a werebear (or werelion or were-eagle... can't decide) and thus became a good creature because of the effect of the disease. Like you said, it's up to the DM though. the one im putting in my campaing was born a werewolf lord. i'll give you the heads up on why he's chaotic good. when he was about five he saw his parents get killed by vampires. they thought they killed him too but he meracously surrvived and was half dead by a were-bear. the were-bear i named Jo-kal, raised him and trained him for over thirteen years as his own son. well the same vapmps are back. they kill jo-kal, while the caracter went looking for wood and he returns to find jo-kal practically dead. in his dying words he tells the character who did this. and then utters "i raised yo...u as m...my own son. yo...u were b...born spe...cial. a po...wer lingers in...side you tha...t is s...o strong that a...ll f...ear what you c...ould become. use your tal...ents wisely. dont be...become them....... i sure that being raised good and seeing his parents and mentor get killed by evil, i think that he now hates evil. so that's why he's good. he wont be able to transform untill the end of the campaign when he fights the vampires that did this to his family. i thinking in a aspect that he fights them they kick his ass big time then, they say somthing like " to bad your as weak as you parents, and mentor, before we slaughtered them like cattle" so he gets so ****** off that he transforms and kills them. i know you said that wolflves and snakes and other creatures of the like are evil but that decription is only cosmetic on pg 65 of the MM the dire wolf's alignment is always neutral. all animals in the MM are always neutral. in my opinion if its raised to be good it will become good, unless its feindish. besides when you fudge alingments it makes the game more interesting in some parts. lets say that red dragon had a change of heart and started saving people in this villige while a gold dragon became power hungry and started killing people in the village. by the time the pc's show up they have no clue whats going on and take to the gold dragons side. then when the clues start comming out he'll then turn on the pc's. so they have to join up with the red dragon to kill the tyrant gold dragon. now dosn't that sound more interesting.
sabrewolf 01-23-05, 09:50 PM	A werewolf lord has an effective character level of 9 + class levels. That means that to be on par with your other players, the werewolf lord should be first level. I quite agree with that.. you should par him with the other players, or based on your campaign idea for him, par him to the party at end of campaign (a little guessing and planning from your part but workable) then lock out his shapechanging as you said till the final battle.. Also, none will know he´s not evil, so he´ll constantly have to deal with trouble because of what he is, or seems to be. Rumours and fame spread well and mayhaps lycantrope-hunters may start hunting him or a village may hire heroes to get him - or even the party what may be a funny twist when they find the so-believed ´evil´ wolf-beast is in fact their comrade (and he´s hunting himself) and now have to proove he´s good before they find out it´s him... i sure that being raised good and seeing his parents and mentor get killed by evil, i think that he now hates evil. so that's why he's good. I´d agree such could make him hate evil and change from evil.. but if the alignment change is because of the curse and it´s influence uppon the wolf´s instincts.. then he would better be neutral instead, fighting agaisnt himself between these instincts and his beliefs.. something i find a better personal quest for this one, even knowing good wins in the end.. :D ...besides when you fudge alingments it makes the game more interesting in some parts. lets say that red dragon had a change of heart and started saving people in this villige while a gold dragon became power hungry and started killing people in the village. by the time the pc's show up they have no clue whats going on and take to the gold dragons side. then when the clues start comming out he'll then turn on the pc's. so they have to join up with the red dragon to kill the tyrant gold dragon. now dosn't that sound more interesting. Yep, alignment change is allways fun.. if you dont exagerate with it.. And this scene is far more weird then interesting.. but amusing anyway.. And teh core idea behind it (the evil that is good and good taht is in fact evil) is what i used for a char/NPC once.. though have not played it so far..
darkwolf33333 01-24-05, 10:39 PM	I quite agree with that.. you should par him with the other players, or based on your campaign idea for him, par him to the party at end of campaign (a little guessing and planning from your part but workable) then lock out his shapechanging as you said till the final battle.. Also, none will know he´s not evil, so he´ll constantly have to deal with trouble because of what he is, or seems to be. Rumours and fame spread well and mayhaps lycantrope-hunters may start hunting him or a village may hire heroes to get him - or even the party what may be a funny twist when they find the so-believed ´evil´ wolf-beast is in fact their comrade (and he´s hunting himself) and now have to proove he´s good before they find out it´s him... I'd agree such could make him hate evil and change from evil.. but if the alignment change is because of the curse and it´s influence uppon the wolf´s instincts.. then he would better be neutral instead, fighting agaisnt himself between these instincts and his beliefs.. something i find a better personal quest for this one, even knowing good wins in the end.. :D Yep, alignment change is allways fun.. if you dont exagerate with it.. And this scene is far more weird then interesting.. but amusing anyway.. And teh core idea behind it (the evil that is good and good taht is in fact evil) is what i used for a char/NPC once.. though have not played it so far.. thanks for the ideas saber. i think that if he's constantly fighting his instinks that it would make him a more interesting character. however i still think that he should have some type of standard to control his power. like a bloodlust roll. where if he will makes a will save every day or so to keep himself in check other wise. well if that situation come up let god have mercy on the pc's souls. im sure twenty five is a good standered since his will save is nineteen is. and the were wolf hunters or hereos seeking to kill him is also a good idea. the pc will learn of his gift or curse when he faces the vampires. i could even use that heros idea where the pc's have to recue their were wolf friend. after he gets captured by the heroes. thanks again dark wolf...
HomebrewedMonster 01-25-05, 05:04 AM	Well the Wolf Lord has an ECL of 9, this is what he would get for his first nine levels. Racial hit dice: 6d8 Speed: 30ft. (humanoid), 40ft. (dire wolf) Armor class: +3 natural, this increases to a +6 when in dire wolf or hybrid form. Base Attack: the racial hit dice grant a base attack bonus of +4. Attack: the character gains 2 claw attacks and a bite attack. The claws deal 1d6 and the bite deals 1d8 (The stated monster has improved natural attack, bite) Size: base creature has same size, but when in dire wolf or hybrid form size increases to large. Special Attacks: Curse of the lycanthrop. Also trip in dire wold form. Special Qualities: Alternate form: hybrid or dire wolf, wolf empathy, damage reduction 10/silver (only in hybrid or dire wolf form), low-light vision, and scent. Saves: base creature gains, Fort +5, Ref +5, Will +2, from the racial hit dice. Abilities: When in hybrid or dire wolf form the base creature gains the following: +14 Str, +4 Dex, +6 Con. Racial Feats: Iron Will and Track Feats: Racial Hit Dice grant three feats. Skills: In hybrid or dire wolf form the base creature gains +4 to survival tracks when using scent. I think your friend needs to realize that the wolflord in the book has ten levels of Fighter, where he could only get one. The wolflord in the book is a 19th level character. So in the end if he wants to play the class, that's fine, because of all the increases he has, his attack will still be lower than the 10th level fighter. Since he'll be a fighter 1 werewolf lord.
darkwolf33333 01-26-05, 07:01 PM	Well the Wolf Lord has an ECL of 9, this is what he would get for his first nine levels. Racial hit dice: 6d8 Speed: 30ft. (humanoid), 40ft. (dire wolf) Armor class: +3 natural, this increases to a +6 when in dire wolf or hybrid form. Base Attack: the racial hit dice grant a base attack bonus of +4. Attack: the character gains 2 claw attacks and a bite attack. The claws deal 1d6 and the bite deals 1d8 (The stated monster has improved natural attack, bite) Size: base creature has same size, but when in dire wolf or hybrid form size increases to large. Special Attacks: Curse of the lycanthrop. Also trip in dire wold form. Special Qualities: Alternate form: hybrid or dire wolf, wolf empathy, damage reduction 10/silver (only in hybrid or dire wolf form), low-light vision, and scent. Saves: base creature gains, Fort +5, Ref +5, Will +2, from the racial hit dice. Abilities: When in hybrid or dire wolf form the base creature gains the following: +14 Str, +4 Dex, +6 Con. Racial Feats: Iron Will and Track Feats: Racial Hit Dice grant three feats. Skills: In hybrid or dire wolf form the base creature gains +4 to survival tracks when using scent. I think your friend needs to realize that the wolflord in the book has ten levels of Fighter, where he could only get one. The wolflord in the book is a 19th level character. So in the end if he wants to play the class, that's fine, because of all the increases he has, his attack will still be lower than the 10th level fighter. Since he'll be a fighter 1 werewolf lord. i run that past him. thanks.
darkwolf33333 01-26-05, 07:04 PM	for the people who replied to my post i like to thank you. your tips were very helpfull thanks again. :cool: