Advancing a monster past 20 HD [Archive] - Wizards Community

Advancing a monster past 20 HD [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Piell
11-13-07, 10:45 AM What happens when you advance a monster past 20 HD? Do they get epic attack bonus, etc. or do they continue their advancement? I am advancing a Tyrannosaurus to 54 HD and am trying to figure out it's saves, attack bonus, etc.
ArochanoX
11-13-07, 11:11 AM Monster HD never work out with epic attack bonus or epic save bonuses. Typically you can grant a monster epic feats when its CR is over 20. Though rules are a bit unclear about this part.

Check out Solar or Tarrasque for example. They do not use epic attack or save bonuses. Just continue the existing progressions.
Piell
11-13-07, 11:19 AM Is there a chart with the numbers somewhere, or a calculator to figure out the base saves for an animal with 54 HD?
ArochanoX
11-13-07, 12:34 PM Is there a chart with the numbers somewhere, or a calculator to figure out the base saves for an animal with 54 HD?

In the back of monster manual there are instructions for advancing monsters. Everything should be there.

IIRC
Animals have cleric BAB (or 3/4 HD rounded down). So your tyrannosaurus would have BAB of +40/+35/+30/+25.

Good save is 2+½ HD (rounded down). So your tyrannosaurus's good saves would be +29.

Poor save is 1/3 HD (rounded down). So your tyrannosaurus's poor saves would be +18.

ADVANCED TYRANNOSAURUS
Gargantuan Animal
Hit Dice: 54d8+1134 (1377 hp)
Initiative: +1
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares)
Armor Class: 30 (–4 size, +1 Dex, +23 natural) touch 7, flat-footed 29
Base Attack/Grapple: +40/+67
Attack: Bite +52 melee (4d6+22)
Full Attack: Bite +52 melee (4d6+22)
Space/Reach: 20 ft./15 ft.
Special Attacks: Improved grab, swallow whole
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +39, Ref +30, Will +20
Abilities: Str 40, Dex 12, Con 30, Int 2, Wis 15, Cha 10
Skills: Hide –5, Listen +32, Spot +32
Feats: Alertness, Improved Natural Attack (bite), Run, Improved toughness, Track, Improved natural armor (14), weapon focus: bite
Environment: Warm plains
Organization: Solitary or pair
Challenge Rating: 21
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Level Adjustment: —

Despite its enormous size and 24-ton weight, a tyrannosaurus is a swift runner. Its head is nearly 12 feet long, and its teeth are from 6 to 12 inches in length. It is slightly more than 60 feet long from nose to tail.

Combat
A tyrannosaurus pursues and eats just about anything it sees. Its tactics are simple—charge in and bite.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a tyrannosaurus must hit an opponent of up to one size smaller with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can try to swallow the foe the following round.

Swallow Whole (Ex): A tyrannosaurus can try to swallow a grabbed opponent of up to two sizes smaller by making a successful grapple check. The swallowed creature takes 3d8+15 points of bludgeoning damage and 12 points of acid damage per round from the tyrannosaurus’s gizzard. A swallowed creature can cut its way out by using a light slashing or piercing weapon to deal 25 points of damage to the gizzard (AC 12). Once the creature exits, muscular action closes the hole; another swallowed opponent must cut its own way out.
A Gargantuan tyrannosaurus’s gizzard can hold 2 Large, 8 Medium, 32 Small, or 128 Tiny or smaller opponents.

Skills: A tyrannosaurus has a +2 racial bonus on Listen and Spot checks.

I hope I got it correctly. It's sad that natural attacks allow no iterative attacks.... This critter's damage output is just sad for a CR 21 creature.
Piell
11-13-07, 01:35 PM Power attack helps with the damage output, though it is mostly just supposed to suck up attacks.
zeratulcraft
11-14-07, 03:06 AM Check out a Titan, BAB +25 or so, but still only 4 attacks, unless they have epic class, they follow normal progression and can take epic things at 21st HD. They rarely do, however.
mvincent
11-14-07, 01:05 PM Is there a chart with the numbers somewhere, or a calculator to figure out the base saves for an animal with 54 HD?Monsterforge (http://www.nzcomputers.net/heroforge/)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Piell 11-13-07, 10:45 AM	What happens when you advance a monster past 20 HD? Do they get epic attack bonus, etc. or do they continue their advancement? I am advancing a Tyrannosaurus to 54 HD and am trying to figure out it's saves, attack bonus, etc.
ArochanoX 11-13-07, 11:11 AM	Monster HD never work out with epic attack bonus or epic save bonuses. Typically you can grant a monster epic feats when its CR is over 20. Though rules are a bit unclear about this part. Check out Solar or Tarrasque for example. They do not use epic attack or save bonuses. Just continue the existing progressions.
Piell 11-13-07, 11:19 AM	Is there a chart with the numbers somewhere, or a calculator to figure out the base saves for an animal with 54 HD?
ArochanoX 11-13-07, 12:34 PM	Is there a chart with the numbers somewhere, or a calculator to figure out the base saves for an animal with 54 HD? In the back of monster manual there are instructions for advancing monsters. Everything should be there. IIRC Animals have cleric BAB (or 3/4 HD rounded down). So your tyrannosaurus would have BAB of +40/+35/+30/+25. Good save is 2+½ HD (rounded down). So your tyrannosaurus's good saves would be +29. Poor save is 1/3 HD (rounded down). So your tyrannosaurus's poor saves would be +18. ADVANCED TYRANNOSAURUS Gargantuan Animal Hit Dice: 54d8+1134 (1377 hp) Initiative: +1 Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares) Armor Class: 30 (–4 size, +1 Dex, +23 natural) touch 7, flat-footed 29 Base Attack/Grapple: +40/+67 Attack: Bite +52 melee (4d6+22) Full Attack: Bite +52 melee (4d6+22) Space/Reach: 20 ft./15 ft. Special Attacks: Improved grab, swallow whole Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent Saves: Fort +39, Ref +30, Will +20 Abilities: Str 40, Dex 12, Con 30, Int 2, Wis 15, Cha 10 Skills: Hide –5, Listen +32, Spot +32 Feats: Alertness, Improved Natural Attack (bite), Run, Improved toughness, Track, Improved natural armor (14), weapon focus: bite Environment: Warm plains Organization: Solitary or pair Challenge Rating: 21 Treasure: None Alignment: Always neutral Level Adjustment: — Despite its enormous size and 24-ton weight, a tyrannosaurus is a swift runner. Its head is nearly 12 feet long, and its teeth are from 6 to 12 inches in length. It is slightly more than 60 feet long from nose to tail. Combat A tyrannosaurus pursues and eats just about anything it sees. Its tactics are simple—charge in and bite. Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a tyrannosaurus must hit an opponent of up to one size smaller with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can try to swallow the foe the following round. Swallow Whole (Ex): A tyrannosaurus can try to swallow a grabbed opponent of up to two sizes smaller by making a successful grapple check. The swallowed creature takes 3d8+15 points of bludgeoning damage and 12 points of acid damage per round from the tyrannosaurus’s gizzard. A swallowed creature can cut its way out by using a light slashing or piercing weapon to deal 25 points of damage to the gizzard (AC 12). Once the creature exits, muscular action closes the hole; another swallowed opponent must cut its own way out. A Gargantuan tyrannosaurus’s gizzard can hold 2 Large, 8 Medium, 32 Small, or 128 Tiny or smaller opponents. Skills: A tyrannosaurus has a +2 racial bonus on Listen and Spot checks. I hope I got it correctly. It's sad that natural attacks allow no iterative attacks.... This critter's damage output is just sad for a CR 21 creature.
Piell 11-13-07, 01:35 PM	Power attack helps with the damage output, though it is mostly just supposed to suck up attacks.
zeratulcraft 11-14-07, 03:06 AM	Check out a Titan, BAB +25 or so, but still only 4 attacks, unless they have epic class, they follow normal progression and can take epic things at 21st HD. They rarely do, however.
mvincent 11-14-07, 01:05 PM	Is there a chart with the numbers somewhere, or a calculator to figure out the base saves for an animal with 54 HD?Monsterforge (http://www.nzcomputers.net/heroforge/)