Advancing Animals (companions) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Advancing Animals (companions) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Gildnao
07-24-06, 05:37 PM quick question, most animals have an intellegence of 2, sometimes 1, my question is if you're advancing an Animal and you raise its HD past a number divisible by 4, it recieves a Stat Advancement point correct? Is it possible to put that stat into the animals intellegence? ive read somewhere that an animal cant have an INT of more than three, does this restriction also aplly to advancing them, and also to Animal Companions.

Im just wondering what would happen if you could raise the animals INT past 2, would it be able to learn to speak, or more "accurately" describe the world around it to its master? Does it become a Magical Beast?
ZeronHitaro
07-24-06, 06:59 PM If you raised an animal's INT past 3 I would give it the same rules as an intelegent magical item (until about INT 8 or 9, then I would treat it as a sentinent being) I remember seeing an animal with an Int greater than 3 once (don't remember where) that had additional rules for being used as a mount due to being sentinent.
Gothenem
07-24-06, 08:31 PM According to the rules, an animal MUST have an Int of 2 or less. If it's intelligence increases to 3, it becomes a Magical Beast.

Edit: Though this is fine as a house rule, I would make it a magical beast, but allow the Druid to keep the animal. It would still gain hit points, BAB and saves as an animal (not magical beast, despite the new type) and it would gain the (Augmented Animal) subtype. It would no longer be affected by spells that affect animals (which is a hiderance more than a benefit). It would also not gain Darkvision or low-light vision or any other traits normally associated with Magical Beats.
KingGolem
07-25-06, 01:46 AM That wouldn't work. Animals can't get an Intelligence higher than 2 (nature figured that out the hard way :P ). But anyway, I think a druid should be able to use the spell Awaken Animal or whatever it is called to imbue its animal companion with intelligence. Then I say it should be able to learn one of its masters languages (except druidic).
Friend
07-25-06, 07:12 AM Yes, Awaken could raise an animal's Int to higher than 3 but...

An awakened animal can’t serve as an animal companion, familiar, or special mount.
thedmstrikes
07-26-06, 05:40 PM Animal companion advancement follows a different set of rules than advancing animals. As such, you do not combine the two rule sets to create an uber animal companion (something I allowed a player to do once before I understood the new rules for animal companions; it was very unbalancing). When advancing an animal companion, you ignore the rules in the monster manual for creature advancement in favor of the rules for advancing animal companions, period. If you are thinking of advancing an animal before it becomes an animal companion, this falls outside the current rules, as an advanced animal is not on any of the animal companion lists, and thus, is not eligible to become an animal companion. I know some of you are thinking, but animal comapnions are supposed to be an extraordinary example of that animals kind and that is why they are suitable to become a nature follower's animal companion. This is a fantasy game and as such, there will always be something more extraordinary than the last. That is the nature of the game. Strictly by the rules, advanced animals can not be animal companions.

On advancing animals. A defining characteristic of an animal is that it has an intelligence of no higher than two, period. If you raise this intelligence above two, then it no longer qualifies for the animal type and must be reclassified. Magical beast is a logical type for certain reasons that cause the intelligence to be raised. Before we look at any other types, let us examine the way an animal will be advanced. Adding a template falls outside this examination as this alone could change the type of base creature anyway. Adding a character class is not appropriate for animals as they are not humanoid in shape (for the most part, but the theory is sound enough that none of them should). Adding hit dice is the sole way an animal should be advanced. As this is an ever changing fantasy game, there may be other ways I am not discussing here and I am sure someone that knows about them will comment :rolleye2: . One other thing the designers did not specify, in any of their books, is the need to have a little common sense when doing these things. What they do say is that once you do pick a way of doing things, stick to it and be consistant. I will not repeat chapter four of the monster manual here, but just to reiterate one thing: Be consistant and use a little common sense. If raising a stat will change the type of creature you are advancing and you do not want to change its type, change another stat. Problem solved.

I hope this answers your original question. Good luck with your game.
Gildnao
07-26-06, 09:42 PM thank you for the response.

the reason i had asked was that i had wanted a Hawk to be a bit smarter than a normal one as i was going to play a Blind Druid / Ranger who was mastered in Archery and i wanted my Hawk to help guide my arrows to their intended targets by squaking while he flew between one and myself, i thought that for him to be able to help me like this it would be pertenant for his INT to be a bit above normal for animals of his type.

Yes, for anyone who reconizes it im copying that Ranger from the Drow books with Drizzt in them, purely for roleplay reasons however.
thedmstrikes
07-27-06, 12:18 AM Since what you plan for is a very limited thing, you could put ranks in handle animal and teach it the trick you need for the action you desire. Since it is not already on the list of tricks in the PHB or any of the splat books I have seen, just get with your DM and ask him to set a DC for the new trick. My guess would be a 20, that is consistent with other tricks of that nature.

I must not have read that book yet :eek: , that sounds...different to me. :D
Gildnao
07-27-06, 02:28 PM its from the first or second book with him in it, Timeline wise, meaning the Sojourn ans Exile and Homeland, i dont remember the order of them but im sure that hes in the later half of the first or second book. hes a great character in the book, and plays a VERY pivital role in the shapeing of young Drizzts life and character.

As always, my hat is off to you Mr. Salvatore!

i guess i should set it as a Handle Animal trick, i just also liked the idea of making the bird a little more special by having it be smarter than others of its kind (without changing its creature type)
savant_warlord13
07-27-06, 04:07 PM You can increase from 1 to 2, but beyond 2 requires the awaken spell.

If you awaken your animal companion, it will cease being your animal companion.
Insane Pixie
07-27-06, 05:57 PM Most of the answers in this thread missed addressing one big issue...

my question is if you're advancing an Animal and you raise its HD past a number divisible by 4, it recieves a Stat Advancement point correct?

No creature gains a stat bonus unless it:

A) Has class levels.
B) Advances HD enough to advance size.
C) Recieves the effects of some sort of spell or magic item.

Oh, and...

Adding a character class is not appropriate for animals as they are not humanoid in shape (for the most part, but the theory is sound enough that none of them should).

Actually, their non-humanoid shape has nothing to do with it. You need an Int of at least 3 to take class levels. However, even some Awakened Monkey took a level of Wizard, it still wouldn't explain where he learned magic. Logic.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gildnao 07-24-06, 05:37 PM	quick question, most animals have an intellegence of 2, sometimes 1, my question is if you're advancing an Animal and you raise its HD past a number divisible by 4, it recieves a Stat Advancement point correct? Is it possible to put that stat into the animals intellegence? ive read somewhere that an animal cant have an INT of more than three, does this restriction also aplly to advancing them, and also to Animal Companions. Im just wondering what would happen if you could raise the animals INT past 2, would it be able to learn to speak, or more "accurately" describe the world around it to its master? Does it become a Magical Beast?
ZeronHitaro 07-24-06, 06:59 PM	If you raised an animal's INT past 3 I would give it the same rules as an intelegent magical item (until about INT 8 or 9, then I would treat it as a sentinent being) I remember seeing an animal with an Int greater than 3 once (don't remember where) that had additional rules for being used as a mount due to being sentinent.
Gothenem 07-24-06, 08:31 PM	According to the rules, an animal MUST have an Int of 2 or less. If it's intelligence increases to 3, it becomes a Magical Beast. Edit: Though this is fine as a house rule, I would make it a magical beast, but allow the Druid to keep the animal. It would still gain hit points, BAB and saves as an animal (not magical beast, despite the new type) and it would gain the (Augmented Animal) subtype. It would no longer be affected by spells that affect animals (which is a hiderance more than a benefit). It would also not gain Darkvision or low-light vision or any other traits normally associated with Magical Beats.
KingGolem 07-25-06, 01:46 AM	That wouldn't work. Animals can't get an Intelligence higher than 2 (nature figured that out the hard way :P ). But anyway, I think a druid should be able to use the spell Awaken Animal or whatever it is called to imbue its animal companion with intelligence. Then I say it should be able to learn one of its masters languages (except druidic).
Friend 07-25-06, 07:12 AM	Yes, Awaken could raise an animal's Int to higher than 3 but... An awakened animal can’t serve as an animal companion, familiar, or special mount.
thedmstrikes 07-26-06, 05:40 PM	Animal companion advancement follows a different set of rules than advancing animals. As such, you do not combine the two rule sets to create an uber animal companion (something I allowed a player to do once before I understood the new rules for animal companions; it was very unbalancing). When advancing an animal companion, you ignore the rules in the monster manual for creature advancement in favor of the rules for advancing animal companions, period. If you are thinking of advancing an animal before it becomes an animal companion, this falls outside the current rules, as an advanced animal is not on any of the animal companion lists, and thus, is not eligible to become an animal companion. I know some of you are thinking, but animal comapnions are supposed to be an extraordinary example of that animals kind and that is why they are suitable to become a nature follower's animal companion. This is a fantasy game and as such, there will always be something more extraordinary than the last. That is the nature of the game. Strictly by the rules, advanced animals can not be animal companions. On advancing animals. A defining characteristic of an animal is that it has an intelligence of no higher than two, period. If you raise this intelligence above two, then it no longer qualifies for the animal type and must be reclassified. Magical beast is a logical type for certain reasons that cause the intelligence to be raised. Before we look at any other types, let us examine the way an animal will be advanced. Adding a template falls outside this examination as this alone could change the type of base creature anyway. Adding a character class is not appropriate for animals as they are not humanoid in shape (for the most part, but the theory is sound enough that none of them should). Adding hit dice is the sole way an animal should be advanced. As this is an ever changing fantasy game, there may be other ways I am not discussing here and I am sure someone that knows about them will comment :rolleye2: . One other thing the designers did not specify, in any of their books, is the need to have a little common sense when doing these things. What they do say is that once you do pick a way of doing things, stick to it and be consistant. I will not repeat chapter four of the monster manual here, but just to reiterate one thing: Be consistant and use a little common sense. If raising a stat will change the type of creature you are advancing and you do not want to change its type, change another stat. Problem solved. I hope this answers your original question. Good luck with your game.
Gildnao 07-26-06, 09:42 PM	thank you for the response. the reason i had asked was that i had wanted a Hawk to be a bit smarter than a normal one as i was going to play a Blind Druid / Ranger who was mastered in Archery and i wanted my Hawk to help guide my arrows to their intended targets by squaking while he flew between one and myself, i thought that for him to be able to help me like this it would be pertenant for his INT to be a bit above normal for animals of his type. Yes, for anyone who reconizes it im copying that Ranger from the Drow books with Drizzt in them, purely for roleplay reasons however.
thedmstrikes 07-27-06, 12:18 AM	Since what you plan for is a very limited thing, you could put ranks in handle animal and teach it the trick you need for the action you desire. Since it is not already on the list of tricks in the PHB or any of the splat books I have seen, just get with your DM and ask him to set a DC for the new trick. My guess would be a 20, that is consistent with other tricks of that nature. I must not have read that book yet :eek: , that sounds...different to me. :D
Gildnao 07-27-06, 02:28 PM	its from the first or second book with him in it, Timeline wise, meaning the Sojourn ans Exile and Homeland, i dont remember the order of them but im sure that hes in the later half of the first or second book. hes a great character in the book, and plays a VERY pivital role in the shapeing of young Drizzts life and character. As always, my hat is off to you Mr. Salvatore! i guess i should set it as a Handle Animal trick, i just also liked the idea of making the bird a little more special by having it be smarter than others of its kind (without changing its creature type)
savant_warlord13 07-27-06, 04:07 PM	You can increase from 1 to 2, but beyond 2 requires the awaken spell. If you awaken your animal companion, it will cease being your animal companion.
Insane Pixie 07-27-06, 05:57 PM	Most of the answers in this thread missed addressing one big issue... my question is if you're advancing an Animal and you raise its HD past a number divisible by 4, it recieves a Stat Advancement point correct? No creature gains a stat bonus unless it: A) Has class levels. B) Advances HD enough to advance size. C) Recieves the effects of some sort of spell or magic item. Oh, and... Adding a character class is not appropriate for animals as they are not humanoid in shape (for the most part, but the theory is sound enough that none of them should). Actually, their non-humanoid shape has nothing to do with it. You need an Int of at least 3 to take class levels. However, even some Awakened Monkey took a level of Wizard, it still wouldn't explain where he learned magic. Logic.