Advancing beyond the limit [Archive] - Wizards Community

Advancing beyond the limit [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Spike_Fightwicky
12-07-05, 01:54 PM What are the rules (if any) for advancing a monster past its 'Advancement' listing, as far as Racial Hit Dice are concerned?

For example, in the Libris Mortis book, the Quell has a listed advancement of:
6-10HD (Medium), and that's it....

These Quells are really neat adversaries (especially if there's a Cleric involved) but according to their advancement, they can only go up to CR 4 creature.

Is the Advancement HD limit a steadfast rule, or is it ok to increase HD beyond that which is indicated as its max in the monster entry? I figure the Advancement entry on most monsters indicates that the monster becomes unbalanced after X amount of HD are added. But why limit the Quell to so few HD?

ALso, if anyone has the LM, if I end up having to make some sort of "Greater Quell", what additional abilities should it get that involve its "Deicidal" tendencies?
Maraxus
12-07-05, 03:26 PM Unless the intelligence is less then 3, you can always add class level.

Giving more racial hit dies looks wrong, definitly by the rules you can not. However, it is your game, why shouldn't you?
Talisman
12-07-05, 04:48 PM Don't have LM so I can't help you with the Greater Quell. However, I can say that advancement represents the creature's normal maximum. If you want to advance a Quell (or anything else) byond the maximum HD listed, do it...it is a rare and special individual, and might deserve its own backstory, legends, and so on.

On the other hand, depending on your campaign, maybe all Quells are just really tough. That's fine too.

And, as Maraxus notes, class levels are always fun.
sandskimmer
12-07-05, 06:03 PM A better way, IMO, is to advance it to its listed maximum, then apply templates to give it more boost. The monster of legend and/or paragon templates come to mind for any creature you want to be tougher than the listed maximum. And yes, any creature that tough should be unique with its own back story as Talisman pointed out.
Spike_Fightwicky
12-07-05, 10:20 PM Thanks everyone for your replies! It's given me valuable insight.

I'll likely whip up my own 'advanced' version of the Quell and give it an awesome name. Maybe give it some anti-magic type class levels.

I'll get to work on it right away :D

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Spike_Fightwicky 12-07-05, 01:54 PM	What are the rules (if any) for advancing a monster past its 'Advancement' listing, as far as Racial Hit Dice are concerned? For example, in the Libris Mortis book, the Quell has a listed advancement of: 6-10HD (Medium), and that's it.... These Quells are really neat adversaries (especially if there's a Cleric involved) but according to their advancement, they can only go up to CR 4 creature. Is the Advancement HD limit a steadfast rule, or is it ok to increase HD beyond that which is indicated as its max in the monster entry? I figure the Advancement entry on most monsters indicates that the monster becomes unbalanced after X amount of HD are added. But why limit the Quell to so few HD? ALso, if anyone has the LM, if I end up having to make some sort of "Greater Quell", what additional abilities should it get that involve its "Deicidal" tendencies?
Maraxus 12-07-05, 03:26 PM	Unless the intelligence is less then 3, you can always add class level. Giving more racial hit dies looks wrong, definitly by the rules you can not. However, it is your game, why shouldn't you?
Talisman 12-07-05, 04:48 PM	Don't have LM so I can't help you with the Greater Quell. However, I can say that advancement represents the creature's normal maximum. If you want to advance a Quell (or anything else) byond the maximum HD listed, do it...it is a rare and special individual, and might deserve its own backstory, legends, and so on. On the other hand, depending on your campaign, maybe all Quells are just really tough. That's fine too. And, as Maraxus notes, class levels are always fun.
sandskimmer 12-07-05, 06:03 PM	A better way, IMO, is to advance it to its listed maximum, then apply templates to give it more boost. The monster of legend and/or paragon templates come to mind for any creature you want to be tougher than the listed maximum. And yes, any creature that tough should be unique with its own back story as Talisman pointed out.
Spike_Fightwicky 12-07-05, 10:20 PM	Thanks everyone for your replies! It's given me valuable insight. I'll likely whip up my own 'advanced' version of the Quell and give it an awesome name. Maybe give it some anti-magic type class levels. I'll get to work on it right away :D