Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Darth Sephiroth 09-05-06, 01:20 PM	When you advance Lesser Dragons like the Dragon Turtle do you use the stuff from Advancing Dragons in the Draconomicon. This is especially about the +1 Natural AC per HD. Also what are the associated classes for most lesser dragons. True Dragons would have combat ones as well as Sorcerer, but several lesser dragons don't have any casting
420 09-05-06, 01:28 PM	True Dragons (Chromatic, Metallic, Planar, Gem) are treated differently than "lesser dragons" (Drakes, Landwyrms, Dragon Turtles ect.) when advancing them. Only True Dragons have age categories (ie they gain more power with age) while the rest advance their Hit Dice like any other creature. -420
Darth Sephiroth 09-05-06, 03:19 PM	The thing is that the list of stuff for advancing true dragons doesn't state wether its for true or otherwise while it does include stuff for virtual age categories, it also includes stuff for other types. I mean an advanced dragon of any type with a breath weapon needs to make it better or it'll cause a lot of problems with that aspect of their power and its power level
420 09-05-06, 07:26 PM	I mean an advanced dragon of any type with a breath weapon needs to make it better or it'll cause a lot of problems with that aspect of their power and its power level Actually it is the other way around, if you start mucking with the DCs of the special abilities of creatures other than a True Dragon you thow their CR out of wack. Take the beholder for example, the DC for the beholder's eye rays do not increase as they advance their Hit Dice. You can have more powerful versions of the beholder (with higher eye-ray DCs) like a Hive Mother or Elder Orb but those are different creatures entirely, not simply older or more advanced beholders. True Dragons are those creatures that become more powerful as they grow older. True Dragons don't have Dragon Age Categories because they are dragons. Instead, having a Dragon Age Category is what defines a creature as a True Dragon in D&D. To give any other creature an age category makes it into a True Dragon by definition. Which, if you want to make Dragon Turtles into True Dragons in your campaign world it is totally your prerogative. -420
Darth Sephiroth 09-05-06, 09:04 PM	The DC's increase anyway, I'm just having trouble with the damage of the Breath Weapon for say the Dragon Turtle, especially when it increases in size via advancement. The other problem is that the section of advancing dragons is listed right after the Prestige Classes that for the most part CAN be taken by the lesser dragons (Just requiring the Dragon type and several specifically mention different lesser dragons) and only a few parts of the Advancing Dragons specifically go into saying True Dragons get things. Basically the only thing Lesser Dragons get in addition to their usual for advancing is boosts to Natural Armor and perhaps size increases. My main reason for this is that I want to build an extremely powerful and dangerous oceanic threat for an epic party to deal with. I'm aiming for an Advanced Hidecarved Dragon Turtle Sorcerer/Stormcaller that can swallow most ships whole
runestar 09-06-06, 05:10 AM	Take the beholder for example, the DC for the beholder's eye rays do not increase as they advance their Hit Dice. You can have more powerful versions of the beholder (with higher eye-ray DCs) like a Hive Mother or Elder Orb but those are different creatures entirely, not simply older or more advanced beholders. The dcs will increase. The rays are SU abilities, so their DC is 10+1/2HD+cha mod. Thus, as the beholder increases in HD, their DCs will scale as well. My main reason for this is that I want to build an extremely powerful and dangerous oceanic threat for an epic party to deal with. I'm aiming for an Advanced Hidecarved Dragon Turtle Sorcerer/Stormcaller that can swallow most ships whole Increasing its size category will increase its natural AC some. The rest will probably have to come from templates.:P
420 09-06-06, 11:52 AM	The dcs will increase. The rays are SU abilities, so their DC is 10+1/2HD+cha mod. Thus, as the beholder increases in HD, their DCs will scale as well. Ah, well that's what I get for not having all 3 core rule books. Are the rules for advancing creatures HD listed in the 3.5 System Reference Docs somewhere? -420
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 09-06-06, 12:25 PM	Ah, well that's what I get for not having all 3 core rule books. Are the rules for advancing creatures HD listed in the 3.5 System Reference Docs somewhere? -420 They should be.
Darth Sephiroth 09-06-06, 06:24 PM	Improving Monsters (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/improvingMonsters.htm) thats where it is, it just doesn't totally make sense with a lesser dragons breath weapon damage