Advancing monster HD, Natural weapons and extra attack? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Advancing monster HD, Natural weapons and extra attack? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
catzo
08-07-07, 12:47 AM Ok, I've jumped, both legs first, into advancing some monsters with some extra HD. I'm pretty sure I got it all covered; Saves, Skills, Feats, Size improvements, I even found out what to do about Stat improvements at every 4'th level.

But! Attacks confuses me. Natural attacks with multiple striker to be precise.

Lets take two exxamples. An Eagle and an Yrthak (MM1 p.262).

The eagle I get, it has 1 HD, and 3 attacks, 2 with it's talons and 1 with it's beak.

However the Yrthak I don't get. It has HD:12 and is a magical beast. It, as the eagle has 3 attacks, 1 bite and 2 claws. But why doesn't it have more attacks? After all it's base attack is +12. Shouldn't it get 2 additional secondary attacks with a base attack of 11+?

Back to the eagle, lets say I improve it's HD to 8. Now it should have a base attack on +6. Shoudl it gain an additional attack now or not?

How about a humanoid race with claws?

...How does this work? I couldn't really find it in the books.
Dragonlord20000
08-07-07, 01:01 AM The easiest way to answer questions like this is to look at the examples in the Monster Manuals.

For your question, I'll compare the Stone Golem to The Greater Stone Golem

To make the Greater Stone Golem the regular Stone Golem was advanced by 28 HD and its BAB went up by 21. However it still only retains its two slam attacks just with more to hit bonuses.

This isn't a literal example because the cr's are off by the formulas for advancing creatures, but it still shows good precedent.

So for the eagle the advanced BAB would help all of its current attacks, but wouldn't grant it any news ones. Same goes for the Yrthak.

Hope that helps.
catzo
08-07-07, 03:16 AM Hope that helps.
It did thank you :)

However. What if you give your Stone golem a hand weapon isntead of his natural attacks. THen he would use normal attack progression, right?
LordKandis
08-07-07, 07:29 AM Yes, he would.

Natural weapons do not use or allow the iterative attacks that manufactured weapons get.

For a good example, take a look at the Balor, he gets 4 attacks with his flaming sword (counts as a manufactured weapon), but only one attack with each hand if he uses his natural weapons.

The glossary section of the Monster Manual for Natural Weapons (pg 312) covers this.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
catzo 08-07-07, 12:47 AM	Ok, I've jumped, both legs first, into advancing some monsters with some extra HD. I'm pretty sure I got it all covered; Saves, Skills, Feats, Size improvements, I even found out what to do about Stat improvements at every 4'th level. But! Attacks confuses me. Natural attacks with multiple striker to be precise. Lets take two exxamples. An Eagle and an Yrthak (MM1 p.262). The eagle I get, it has 1 HD, and 3 attacks, 2 with it's talons and 1 with it's beak. However the Yrthak I don't get. It has HD:12 and is a magical beast. It, as the eagle has 3 attacks, 1 bite and 2 claws. But why doesn't it have more attacks? After all it's base attack is +12. Shouldn't it get 2 additional secondary attacks with a base attack of 11+? Back to the eagle, lets say I improve it's HD to 8. Now it should have a base attack on +6. Shoudl it gain an additional attack now or not? How about a humanoid race with claws? ...How does this work? I couldn't really find it in the books.
Dragonlord20000 08-07-07, 01:01 AM	The easiest way to answer questions like this is to look at the examples in the Monster Manuals. For your question, I'll compare the Stone Golem to The Greater Stone Golem To make the Greater Stone Golem the regular Stone Golem was advanced by 28 HD and its BAB went up by 21. However it still only retains its two slam attacks just with more to hit bonuses. This isn't a literal example because the cr's are off by the formulas for advancing creatures, but it still shows good precedent. So for the eagle the advanced BAB would help all of its current attacks, but wouldn't grant it any news ones. Same goes for the Yrthak. Hope that helps.
catzo 08-07-07, 03:16 AM	Hope that helps. It did thank you :) However. What if you give your Stone golem a hand weapon isntead of his natural attacks. THen he would use normal attack progression, right?
LordKandis 08-07-07, 07:29 AM	Yes, he would. Natural weapons do not use or allow the iterative attacks that manufactured weapons get. For a good example, take a look at the Balor, he gets 4 attacks with his flaming sword (counts as a manufactured weapon), but only one attack with each hand if he uses his natural weapons. The glossary section of the Monster Manual for Natural Weapons (pg 312) covers this.