Advancing monsters--by class or HD? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Advancing monsters--by class or HD? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
IrishRover
09-28-06, 11:41 PM I was wondering how often DM's advance monsters by hit dice, compared to how often they add a characer class.
I tend to add classes to most monsters that are intelligent enough, rather than hit dice. If I need a more powerful Marilith, for example, she likely has fighter levels instead of more outsider hit dice. Of course, it may not be the obvious--it might be a less expected class or prestige class. Even monsters don't always take the most logical class. Balor Sorcerer anyone?
Not always, though--sometimes monster hit dice are just what's needed.
And for minor encounters, sometimes extra hit dice is just plain easier

So--classes or monsters?
questionc
09-29-06, 01:21 AM I prefer increasing HD. When you increase the HD, it really feels like a new creature. Problem is, there's too many options for doing this...
There's so many creatures in the MM, there isn't usually a need for pumping something up (Why use a 3HD Baboon instead of an Ape?)
Templates provide a more interesting, but similar, way to pump up a monster.
Too many creatures in the MM advance by character level.

Boosting HD has the potential to make for some really strange creations: 60 HD Spider, anyone?
dok
09-29-06, 01:25 AM I try to hold to the Dicefreaks' guidelines on monster advancement:
Creatures with up to double base HD are uncommon, and adding racial HD is quicker for me than adding class levels.
Creatures with double base HD or more are unique creatures, and are great candidates for adding class levels.
There should only be a very small number (less than twenty in all creation) of max HD creatures.

From there I add class levels based on what I want the encounter to be.
Dhaise
09-29-06, 02:13 AM Beasts and entities with fairly low intelligence scores tend to get the advanced Hit Dice or template treatment when I advance them, it's like natural selection, I can make a stronger internal argument for validating to myself a larger, meaner wolf than I can for one possessing power attack and knowing when to use it properly etc.

The highly sentient races get class levels as a rule of thumb, with some creatures (the ones who sit on the 'iconic' marquee for example) will sometimes get the advantage of both forms of advancement if only to give them the occasional standout.
runestar
09-29-06, 02:48 AM Racial HD never suffers from epic bab/saves, so for monsters with already more than, or close to 20HD, it might be a better option than class lvs.:)

Of course, some class lvs are nice for 1 dips, such as paladin or blackguard2 for aura/divine grace, 1 lv of monk for wis bonus to ac, 2 lvs of fighter for 2 bonus feats etc.:)

And 1 class lv will allow the monster to benefit from elite stat array for free, as well as extra gear(since you now receive treasure as an NPC of your cr, not just that few crummy gems).

You just have to weigh the opportunity costs in these cases.
OzyBurrfoot
09-29-06, 10:57 AM Racial HD never suffers from epic bab/saves, so for monsters with already more than, or close to 20HD, it might be a better option than class lvs.

Are you sure about this?
runestar
09-29-06, 11:28 PM Are you sure about this?
Absolutely. Look up any epic monster in the ELH and tell me which has epic bab/save progression?

Or look up the stats for any dragon in the MM with more than 20 HD. Their bab is still equal to their dragon HD.:)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
IrishRover 09-28-06, 11:41 PM	I was wondering how often DM's advance monsters by hit dice, compared to how often they add a characer class. I tend to add classes to most monsters that are intelligent enough, rather than hit dice. If I need a more powerful Marilith, for example, she likely has fighter levels instead of more outsider hit dice. Of course, it may not be the obvious--it might be a less expected class or prestige class. Even monsters don't always take the most logical class. Balor Sorcerer anyone? Not always, though--sometimes monster hit dice are just what's needed. And for minor encounters, sometimes extra hit dice is just plain easier So--classes or monsters?
questionc 09-29-06, 01:21 AM	I prefer increasing HD. When you increase the HD, it really feels like a new creature. Problem is, there's too many options for doing this... There's so many creatures in the MM, there isn't usually a need for pumping something up (Why use a 3HD Baboon instead of an Ape?) Templates provide a more interesting, but similar, way to pump up a monster. Too many creatures in the MM advance by character level. Boosting HD has the potential to make for some really strange creations: 60 HD Spider, anyone?
dok 09-29-06, 01:25 AM	I try to hold to the Dicefreaks' guidelines on monster advancement: Creatures with up to double base HD are uncommon, and adding racial HD is quicker for me than adding class levels. Creatures with double base HD or more are unique creatures, and are great candidates for adding class levels. There should only be a very small number (less than twenty in all creation) of max HD creatures. From there I add class levels based on what I want the encounter to be.
Dhaise 09-29-06, 02:13 AM	Beasts and entities with fairly low intelligence scores tend to get the advanced Hit Dice or template treatment when I advance them, it's like natural selection, I can make a stronger internal argument for validating to myself a larger, meaner wolf than I can for one possessing power attack and knowing when to use it properly etc. The highly sentient races get class levels as a rule of thumb, with some creatures (the ones who sit on the 'iconic' marquee for example) will sometimes get the advantage of both forms of advancement if only to give them the occasional standout.
runestar 09-29-06, 02:48 AM	Racial HD never suffers from epic bab/saves, so for monsters with already more than, or close to 20HD, it might be a better option than class lvs.:) Of course, some class lvs are nice for 1 dips, such as paladin or blackguard2 for aura/divine grace, 1 lv of monk for wis bonus to ac, 2 lvs of fighter for 2 bonus feats etc.:) And 1 class lv will allow the monster to benefit from elite stat array for free, as well as extra gear(since you now receive treasure as an NPC of your cr, not just that few crummy gems). You just have to weigh the opportunity costs in these cases.
OzyBurrfoot 09-29-06, 10:57 AM	Racial HD never suffers from epic bab/saves, so for monsters with already more than, or close to 20HD, it might be a better option than class lvs. Are you sure about this?
runestar 09-29-06, 11:28 PM	Are you sure about this? Absolutely. Look up any epic monster in the ELH and tell me which has epic bab/save progression? Or look up the stats for any dragon in the MM with more than 20 HD. Their bab is still equal to their dragon HD.:)