Post/Author/DateTime	Post
R.M.G.C.L.F. 06-25-05, 04:16 PM	Zarkshak Large Dragon HD:5d12+15(47hp) Init:+1 Speed: 50ft, Fly 70ft(good), Climb 80ft, Swim60ft AC:19(+1 dex,+5 natural, +3 magic large sheild (+1 metal shield), +1 shedskin vest) BAB/Grapple:+5/+13 Attacks: 2 Claws+13, Bite+11, Tail+11, or +1 Greatsword +14 melee Damage: Claw 1d8+4, Bite 2d6+2, Tail 1d8+2, Greatsword 2d6+6 Face/Reach: 10ft by 5ft/5ft (all fours), 5ft by 5ft/10ft (upright) Special Attacks: Breath Weapon, Spell-Like Abilities, Spells, Improved Grab, Swallow Whole, Frightful Presence Special Qualities: Sheild Deflection, DR5/+1, SR15, Fire Resistance15, Electricity and Sonic Resistance5, Darkvision60ft, Low-Light Vision, Dragon Traits Saves:Fort+7,Ref+5,Will+6 Abilities:Str18,Dex13,Con16,Int12,Wis15, Cha17 Feats: Multiattack, Weapon Focus(Greatsword), Ability Focus(Breath Weapon) (Zarkshak's recieve one bonus feat of their choice) Skills: Spot+10,Search+9,Listen+10,Appraise+9,Kn owledge(Arcana)+8,Knowledge(dungeoneerin g)+9, Spellcraft+5, Concentration+7, Intimidate+5, Gather Information+5, Diplomacy+5, Bluff+5, Survival+3 __________________________________ Environment: Any Organization: Solitary, Pair, or Party (3-5, nonstandard ability array for each and/or 1-4 class levels) CR:5? Alignment: Any Treasure: Triple Standard Advancement: 6-9HD(Large), 10-11HD(Huge), or by class level (No favored class) LA:+4? (Please evaluate by individual standards and not by savage species guidelines) When on all fours, a Zarkshak looks just like a particularly nimble. When it stands up on its back legs however, the difference becomes instantly noticable. It has an indefinable anthropomorphic quality about it, its four-fingered hands having an opposable thumb. Its legs are built with the bipedal orientation of a therapod. Close inspection reveals that the creature is wearing a translucent vest almost indistinguishable in color and texture from its skin, complete with a pouch for storing items (five times the capacity of a backpack), a loop for a sheath and a slot for a sheild. The creature's bright green eyes sparkle with a thirst for excitement. Zarkshak's are a variety of dragons with a taste for adventuring and youthful vigor. These qualities combined with human-like hands and unusually high dexterity for a dragon make them ideal adventurers. They range in color from blood red to acid green, and often have tinges of gold or silver about them or touches of crystal-like scales, but this coloring has no relation to their alignments. The all-purpose vests they wear are fashioned out of their own shed skins. Zarkshaks are generally looked down on by true dragons for their primitive and degenerate humanousity, both in behavior and appearance, regardless of alignment or category. Silver Dragons are the only real exception to this rule, due to their empathy with humans and general preferance of assuming humanoid shape. It is perhaps this general emnity from other dragons that they developed their Sheild Deflection ability. Combat: Zarkshaks relish the thrill of battle. Despite their formidable natural weapons as dragons, they delight in armed combat and the use of magic. They tend to fight with energy and delight, although tendancies towards mercy and/or surrender vary by individual. Breath Weapon(su): Line of Fire, 2d12 damage, 20ft, reflex save dc:18 halves. Frightful Presence(ex): Whenever a Zarkshak does something threatening, such as attacking, roaring, or breathing fire, creatures within 60ft of 5hd or less must make a will save dc:15 or be shaken. Those with 2hd are frightened instead. Improved Grab(ex) A Zarkshak can automatically begin a grapple with a successful bite attack. Swallow Whole(ex): With another grapple check a zarkshak can swallow a grappled creature of small or smaller size. Its gullet can hold one small creature or three tiny creatures. Shield Deflection(su): A Zarkshak can raise any magic shield in front of it as a move-equivalent action (attacking requires it to lower the shield again), a Zarkshak can successfully form a barrier to block an oncoming breath weapon. The blocked breath weapon has no effect within the Zarskak's space, and those directly behind the Zarkshak make their saves as if they possessed the improved evasion feat. There is a 47% chance that the breath weapon shall be deflected back at the dragon, and it will need to make a save against its own breath attack as if it were within the area. If the Zarkshak chooses, the portion deflected at the dragon will be magically reversed, cold damage being replaced with fire damage (and visa-versa), and sonic, acid, and electricity being replaced with another of the three. Spells(sp) A Zarkshak casts spells as a 3rd level sorcerer. Spells per day are 6/5. Spells known are 5/3. DCs are 13/14 Standard Combat Spell Array: Acid Splash, Flare, Daze, Disrupt Undead, Resistance, Magic Missile, Sleep, Sheild Standard Noncombat Spell Array: Dancing Lights, Read Magic, Message, Mending, Mage Hand, Identify, Comprehend Languages, Unseen Servant Illusionist/Stage Magic Array (such a Zarkshak would take spell focus(illusion) instead of Ability Focus(breath weapon)): Dancing Lights, Ghost Sound, Flare, Light, Ray of Frost, Color Spray, Disguise Self, Silent Image Spell-Like Abilities(Sp): At will detect magic, prestadigitation, once per day: protection from chaos/evil/good/law, charm person, glitterdust, invisibility, daylight, darkness, Summon Monster III, lesser restoration, cure moderate wounds This is Zarshark Mark I. The toned-down Revamped attempt is HERE (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=543721)
Stormonu 06-25-05, 06:09 PM	The shield deflection is ridiculous and makes it hard to quantify the LA of this creature. If you think about it, if one of these guys caught a Ancient Red Wyrm by surprise, it could get it to kill itself by reflecting the breath weapon back at the dragon as an Ice blast. Really, the ability should probably be made into a couple of feats - shield deflection (granting the equivilant of evasion if the shield is used to block a breath weapon), shield reflection (turning the breath weapon back at the attacker) and breath weapon transformation (turning the breath weapon into an "opposing" energy type. <edit> and the "reflection" & "transformation" should probably be toned down dramatically - say reflecting only 1/2 the original damage dice, and transforming only 1/2 (so a reflected and transformed breath weapon would only inflict 1/4 normal damage to the original breather) with some sort of maximum based on the HD/level of the reflector. Other than that, not too shabby. P.S.: if we don't use the Savage Species rules to figure the LA, what standard ARE we supposed to use?
R.M.G.C.L.F. 06-25-05, 07:34 PM	Re: I see. Maybe it would help if I limited the damage reflected, or made it so that they need a reflex save to get their sheild up? It seemed rather feat-ish, but I thought since it was supernatural I could let it slide. Maybe I should just take it out altogether. In either case, just try to evaluate it without the shield reflection until I get the kinks worked out. Thank you. Work out an LA with basic balance, testing, and common sense, like people did before Silly Sissies came out. The designers admitted that the entire thing was designed to make LAs higher than would be balanced just to nerf monstrous characters so PCs wouldn't be to different from main characters in the novels. If you use Savage Species Guidelines, you will not get a balanced level adjustment.
R.M.G.C.L.F. 11-26-05, 05:38 PM	bump
dok 11-26-05, 06:59 PM	Improved Grab(ex) A Zarkshak can automatically begin a grapple with a successful bite attack. You need a size qualifier on this ability. "...can automatically begin a grapple with a creature its size or smaller" or "...with a creature smaller than it". Swallow Whole(ex): With another grapple check a zarkshak can swallow a grappled creature of small or smaller size. Its gullet can hold one small creature or three tiny creatures. Re-write as "a grappled creature two or more sizes smaler than it". Shield Deflection(su): A Zarkshak can raise any magic shield in front of it as a move-equivalent action (attacking requires it to lower the shield again), a Zarkshak can successfully form a barrier to block an oncoming breath weapon. The blocked breath weapon has no effect within the Zarskak's space, and those directly behind the Zarkshak make their saves as if they possessed the improved evasion feat. There is a 47% chance that the breath weapon shall be deflected back at the dragon, and it will need to make a save against its own breath attack as if it were within the area. If the Zarkshak chooses, the portion deflected at the dragon will be magically reversed, cold damage being replaced with fire damage (and visa-versa), and sonic, acid, and electricity being replaced with another of the three. Utterly absurd. Totally & utterly absurd. A "magic shield" that blocks all breath weapons, but has no other effect on any other sort of attacks? So the Blue Dragon's line of Lightning gets blocked, but the identicial-in-damage-type-and-area-of-effect lightning bolt is unaffected? The Black Dragon's line of acid is blocked, but the Psychic Warrior who uses the Exhalation of the Black Dragon psionic power isn't bothered at all? It takes a move action to "raise" the shield, but since this shield has no effect on anything other than breath weapons (no AC, no penalties) and has no duration or limitations on use, why wouldn't these guys have this shield active all the time? A 47% chance to reflect a breath weapon? Now we're into total absurdity. First, why 47%? Where did that number come from? What's it based on? Why a percentage number for an effect in the d20 system? And why a static number, rather than a DC or roll? All breath weapons, from the kobold half-dragon up to the breath of Bahaumat all have the same 47% chance of being reflected? It's bad enough that Tiamat, goddess of evil dragons, has her breath weapons negated by the shield, but a flat 47% chance to reflect? This abiltiy makes no sense, follows no known game mechanics, and is terribly broken. I haven't even discussed the completely-metagamed Energy Substitution effect of the shield yet... Spells(sp) A Zarkshak casts spells as a 3rd level sorcerer. Spells per day are 6/5. Spells known are 5/3. DCs are 13/14 So it's Large, with racial ability score modifiers ranging from +2 to +8 in all stats, has four natural attacks, natural armor, fly, climb, and swim speeds, and it can cast spells as a 3rd level sorcerer. We're heading into "LA -" territory very quickly here... Spell-Like Abilities(Sp): At will detect magic, prestadigitation, once per day: protection from chaos/evil/good/law, charm person, glitterdust, invisibility, daylight, darkness, Summon Monster III, lesser restoration, cure moderate wounds Remember how I said the Shield Deflection was absurd? So is this. Why these abilties? How do these specific spells relate to this creature? Why do they have cure moderate wounds 1/day? They're not divine creatures, or associated with the Upper Planes. Why glitterdust or invisibility? If (from a meta-gaming perspective) you felt these creatures should have these spells, then let them have those spells as Sorcerers, rather than arbitrarily tacking on spells as SLAs. Seriously, can anyone see a common element in this list: Protection from [alignment] Charm person Glitterdust Invisibility Daylight Darkness Lesser Restoration Cure Moderate Wounds Summon Monster III I can't see any common theme here. I can't make any sense of it at all. If this creature didn't have the Sorcerer spellcasting ability, and you had flavor text saying that they had some limited magical aptitude like sorcerers, maybe I'd buy it. But the Sorcerer levels makes this list look unnecessary (for the arcane spells) and metagamed (for the lesser restoration and Cure moderate wounds) Let's take a quick pass through the stat-block.. Speed: 50ft, Fly 70ft(good), Climb 80ft, Swim60ft Why does it have such a fast ground speed? While the creature is described as being able to be a quadraped, the sample creature has a shield and sword, so it can't exactly run on all fours with a shield strapped to its arm... Why is it's Climb Speed not only fast than its ground speed, but it's fly speed??? That makes even less sense. And why is its swim speed faster than its land speed, but slower than its fly speed? These numbers really don't make any sense at all. AC:19(+1 dex,+5 natural, +3 magic large sheild (+1 metal shield), +1 shedskin vest) First, you've left out the -1 size modifier to AC, but seem to have included it in your calculation. Second, the format is to list the bonus by type, then parenthetically list the source if necessary: (+1 dexterity, +5 natural, +3 Shield [+1 metal shield], +1 armor [shedskin vest]) BAB/Grapple:+5/+13 Attacks: 2 Claws+13, Bite+11, Tail+11, or +1 Greatsword +14 melee BAB +5, Strength +4, size -1 = +8 for the claws. -2 for secondary attack = +6 for the bite & tail. +1 for Weapon Focus and +1 enhancement bonus gives +10 for the Greatsword. Also, as a Large creature, it should be listed as "Large +1 Greatsword" Damage: Claw 1d8+4, Bite 2d6+2, Tail 1d8+2, Greatsword 2d6+6 First, you forgot that the creature is Large, so you didn't scale up the Greatsword damage. A Large Greatsword deals 3d6 damage, not 2d6. Also, you left out the +1 enhancement bonus to damage: "Large Greatsword 3d6+7" If you're using 3E rules (no weapon sizing) then the Greatsword is being used one-handed, and so it should only get x1 strength to damage, and not x1.5: "Greatsword 2d6+5" Special Qualities: ...Fire Resistance15, Electricity and Sonic Resistance5, Why those resistances, in those amounts? I can see a low (5) Fire/Acid/Electricity/Cold resistance if the race has emnity with other dragons, or a single high resistance (15) to a single element if there are subspecies of this race with particular affinity to a dragon type, but these immunities just seem out of place. Especially Sonic, which isn't a breath weapon for any Core Dragon. (Gem Dragons and Planar Dragons, but not chromatic or metallic) Again, the resistances feel more metagamed than anything else... Skills: Dragons get 6+int skill points per HD. With a +1 intelligence modifier, that's a total of either 35 skill points (3E rules, total based on HD) or 56 skill points. (3.5 rules, x4 skill points for 1st HD) Backing out abiltiy score modifiers, I get the following total ranks Spot 8, Search 8, Listen 8, Appraise 8, Knowledge(Arcana)7, knowledge(dungeoneering) 8, Spellcraft 4, Concentration 4, Intimidate 2, Gather Information 2, Diplomacy 2, Bluff 2, Survival, 1 By my limited math skills, that works out to 64 skill points, or at least 8 points too many. I'm assuming you're using 3E rules, since you don't have Swim or Climb modifier listed. Eyeballing it, I'd put the CR on this creature between 4 & 6, with playtesting to nail it down closer. As for a level-adjustment, I'd simply say "no". Why? Let's list what all the character entries are: Creature as character *5 Racial HD (+5d12 hit points, +5 BAB, +4 to all saves, 2 feats) *Bonus feat *Large size (10' reach, -1 to AC, attacks) *Base speed 50 ft. *Fly speed 70 ft. *Climb speed 80 ft. *+5 natural armor *Natural Attacks: two claws, one bite, one tail *Special attacks: Breath weapon, Improved Grab, Frightful Presence, Spell-like Abilities *Spellcasting: as 3rd level Sorcerer *Damage Reduction 5/+1 *Fire Resistance 15. Electricity Resistance 5. Sonic Resistance 5 *Darkvision 60 ft, low-light vision *+8 Strength, +2 Dexterity, +6 Constitution, +2 Intelligence, +4 Wisdom, +6 Charisma That's a very, very long list of benefits, especially on a creature that is perfectly able to use standard weapons, armor, and equipment. It's tailor made for entering Prestige Classes with a strong BAB and able to cast 2nd level Arcane spells. I'd have a hard time with a level adjustment below +5, for a total ECL of at least 10, but mostly I'd simply say "LA: -", because its just not well-balanced for a PC. Not everything has, or should have, a level-adjustment.
R.M.G.C.L.F. 11-26-05, 08:19 PM	You need a size qualifier on this ability. "...can automatically begin a grapple with a creature its size or smaller" or "...with a creature smaller than it". Why? As far as I know other improved grab attacks don't work only on a smaller creatures. Re-write as "a grappled creature two or more sizes smaler than it". To my knowledge, other swallow whole attacks don't make this specification. Utterly absurd. Totally & utterly absurd. A "magic shield" that blocks all breath weapons, but has no other effect on any other sort of attacks? So the Blue Dragon's line of Lightning gets blocked, but the identicial-in-damage-type-and-area-of-effect lightning bolt is unaffected? The Black Dragon's line of acid is blocked, but the Psychic Warrior who uses the Exhalation of the Black Dragon psionic power isn't bothered at all? Yes, it's as absurd as a magical sword that only does extra damage against dragons or arrows of slaying only working against aberrations, or a brooch of shielding only functioning against a magic missile spell. It's a magical protection designed specifically to repel the breath weapons of other dragons. It takes a move action to "raise" the shield, but since this shield has no effect on anything other than breath weapons (no AC, no penalties) and has no duration or limitations on use, why wouldn't these guys have this shield active all the time? A 47% chance to reflect a breath weapon? Now we're into total absurdity. First, why 47%? Where did that number come from? What's it based on? Why a percentage number for an effect in the d20 system? And why a static number, rather than a DC or roll? All breath weapons, from the kobold half-dragon up to the breath of Bahaumat all have the same 47% chance of being reflected? It's bad enough that Tiamat, goddess of evil dragons, has her breath weapons negated by the shield, but a flat 47% chance to reflect? Firstly I couldn't think of any other appropriate way to determine success or failure (saving throw? No. Caster level checks? What caster level is there to use? ), and secondly, I simply wished to include such a random element for an underdog feel. This abiltiy makes no sense, follows no known game mechanics, and is terribly broken. I haven't even discussed the completely-metagamed Energy Substitution effect of the shield yet... I accept that it follows no known game mechanics, but I don't see what reason there is to avoid creating an unorthodox ability if there is no similar power to base it on. Since it's broken, and somebody else has voiced problems with it, I'll just drop the ability altogether. However I fail to see how the energy reversal effect is "metagaming". I just liked the idea of a magic shield that inverts a breath weapon and sends it back at its source. So it's Large, with racial ability score modifiers ranging from +2 to +8 in all stats, has four natural attacks, natural armor, fly, climb, and swim speeds, and it can cast spells as a 3rd level sorcerer. We're heading into "LA -" territory very quickly here... Remember how I said the Shield Deflection was absurd? So is this. Why these abilties? How do these specific spells relate to this creature? Why do they have cure moderate wounds 1/day? They're not divine creatures, or associated with the Upper Planes. Why glitterdust or invisibility? If (from a meta-gaming perspective) you felt these creatures should have these spells, then let them have those spells as Sorcerers, rather than arbitrarily tacking on spells as SLAs. Seriously, can anyone see a common element in this list: Protection from [alignment] Charm person Glitterdust Invisibility Daylight Darkness Lesser Restoration Cure Moderate Wounds Summon Monster III It doesn't necisarily need a common element. I chose to give it a hodge-podge of diverse magical powers because that fits the general "Arcane potency" feel I was looking for. I will take your advice and trim them down to make this playable, but I've never seen the need to justify spell like abilities beyond "I like my creature withit." I can't see any common theme here. I can't make any sense of it at all. If this creature didn't have the Sorcerer spellcasting ability, and you had flavor text saying that they had some limited magical aptitude like sorcerers, maybe I'd buy it. But the Sorcerer levels makes this list look unnecessary (for the arcane spells) and metagamed (for the lesser restoration and Cure moderate wounds) I see the redundancy and I will amend accordingly. I still fail to see how I am "metagaming" with this creation. Let's take a quick pass through the stat-block.. Speed: 50ft, Fly 70ft(good), Climb 80ft, Swim60ft Why does it have such a fast ground speed? While the creature is described as being able to be a quadraped, the sample creature has a shield and sword, so it can't exactly run on all fours with a shield strapped to its arm... Why is it's Climb Speed not only fast than its ground speed, but it's fly speed??? That makes even less sense. And why is its swim speed faster than its land speed, but slower than its fly speed? These numbers really don't make any sense at all. AC:19(+1 dex,+5 natural, +3 magic large sheild (+1 metal shield), +1 shedskin vest) First, you've left out the -1 size modifier to AC, but seem to have included it in your calculation. Second, the format is to list the bonus by type, then parenthetically list the source if necessary: (+1 dexterity, +5 natural, +3 Shield [+1 metal shield], +1 armor [shedskin vest]) BAB/Grapple:+5/+13 Attacks: 2 Claws+13, Bite+11, Tail+11, or +1 Greatsword +14 melee BAB +5, Strength +4, size -1 = +8 for the claws. -2 for secondary attack = +6 for the bite & tail. +1 for Weapon Focus and +1 enhancement bonus gives +10 for the Greatsword. Also, as a Large creature, it should be listed as "Large +1 Greatsword" Damage: Claw 1d8+4, Bite 2d6+2, Tail 1d8+2, Greatsword 2d6+6 First, you forgot that the creature is Large, so you didn't scale up the Greatsword damage. A Large Greatsword deals 3d6 damage, not 2d6. Also, you left out the +1 enhancement bonus to damage: "Large Greatsword 3d6+7" If you're using 3E rules (no weapon sizing) then the Greatsword is being used one-handed, and so it should only get x1 strength to damage, and not x1.5: "Greatsword 2d6+5" Special Qualities: ...Fire Resistance15, Electricity and Sonic Resistance5, Why those resistances, in those amounts? I can see a low (5) Fire/Acid/Electricity/Cold resistance if the race has emnity with other dragons, or a single high resistance (15) to a single element if there are subspecies of this race with particular affinity to a dragon type, but these immunities just seem out of place. Especially Sonic, which isn't a breath weapon for any Core Dragon. (Gem Dragons and Planar Dragons, but not chromatic or metallic) Again, the resistances feel more metagamed than anything else... Skills: Dragons get 6+int skill points per HD. With a +1 intelligence modifier, that's a total of either 35 skill points (3E rules, total based on HD) or 56 skill points. (3.5 rules, x4 skill points for 1st HD) Backing out abiltiy score modifiers, I get the following total ranks By my limited math skills, that works out to 64 skill points, or at least 8 points too many. I'm assuming you're using 3E rules, since you don't have Swim or Climb modifier listed. Eyeballing it, I'd put the CR on this creature between 4 & 6, with playtesting to nail it down closer. As for a level-adjustment, I'd simply say "no". Why? Let's list what all the character entries are: Creature as character *5 Racial HD (+5d12 hit points, +5 BAB, +4 to all saves, 2 feats) *Bonus feat *Large size (10' reach, -1 to AC, attacks) *Base speed 50 ft. *Fly speed 70 ft. *Climb speed 80 ft. *+5 natural armor *Natural Attacks: two claws, one bite, one tail *Special attacks: Breath weapon, Improved Grab, Frightful Presence, Spell-like Abilities *Spellcasting: as 3rd level Sorcerer *Damage Reduction 5/+1 *Fire Resistance 15. Electricity Resistance 5. Sonic Resistance 5 *Darkvision 60 ft, low-light vision *+8 Strength, +2 Dexterity, +6 Constitution, +2 Intelligence, +4 Wisdom, +6 Charisma That's a very, very long list of benefits, especially on a creature that is perfectly able to use standard weapons, armor, and equipment. It's tailor made for entering Prestige Classes with a strong BAB and able to cast 2nd level Arcane spells. I'd have a hard time with a level adjustment below +5, for a total ECL of at least 10, but mostly I'd simply say "LA: -", because its just not well-balanced for a PC. Not everything has, or should have, a level-adjustment. I honestly wasn't metagaming during the creation of this creature. I almost always make my creatures by starting with an idea and statting it out. I hoped to create a mid-to-high LA but still playable creature. Clearly I failed at that, due to my tendancy to add many frills and my determination to still make it formidible enough to deserve the dragon type. I see from this feedback that I will need to completely revamp this creature to meet my goals.
savant_warlord13 11-26-05, 08:21 PM	why can it climb faster than it can walk?
R.M.G.C.L.F. 11-26-05, 11:15 PM	I just don't know anymore. I wrote this thing up a while ago, and I'm going to completely re-write it soon.
Rakzaar the Hallowed 11-27-05, 08:14 AM	lol R.M.G.C.L.F., it seems that everything went downhill. i would like to see how your creation turns out though, once you've sorta fixed it up a bit... especially those odd move speeds...
R.M.G.C.L.F. 11-27-05, 12:34 PM	Zathkshak Mark II Medium Dragon HD:2d12+2(15hp) Init:+0 Speed: 40ft, fly 30ft(poor) AC:14(+2natural,+2shedskin leather armor) Attacks: Bite+4 melee, 2 claws-1 melee Damage: Bite 1d6+2, claw 1d4+1 Face/Reach: 5ft by 5ft/5ft Special Attacks: breath weapon, spells Special Qualities: Fire resistance 10, Spell resistance 8, darkvision 60ft, low-light vision Saves: Fort+4,Ref+3,Will+3 Abilities: Str15,Dex11,con13,Int12,Wis10,Cha12 Skills: Knowledge(dungeoneering)+6, survival+3, spot+2, listen+2, diplomacy+3 Feats: ability focus(breath weapon) __________________________________ Climate/Terrain: Any land organization: Solitary, pair, or party (3-5 with elite ability array and diverse skills or class levels) CR:1? Alignment: Any Treasure: Double Standard Advancement: By class level LA:+? When on all fours, a Zarkshak looks just like a particularly nimble dragon. When it stands up on its back legs however, the difference becomes instantly noticable. It has an indefinable anthropomorphic quality about it, its four-fingered hands having an opposable thumb. Its legs are built with the bipedal orientation of a therapod. Close inspection will reveal an translucent leather armor of similar color contrasting the natural grain of the creature's scales and a small back-pack of the same material. The creature's bright green eyes sparkle with a thirst for excitement. Zarkshak's are a variety of dragons with a taste for adventuring and youthful vigor. These qualities combined with human-like hands make them ideal adventurers. They range in color from blood red to acid green, and often have tinges of gold or silver about them or touches of crystal-like scales, but this coloring has no relation to their alignments. The all-purpose vests they wear are fashioned out of their own shed skins. Zarkshaks are generally looked down on by true dragons for their primitive and degenerate humanousity, both in behavior and appearance, regardless of alignment or category. Silver Dragons are the only real exception to this rule, due to their empathy with humans and general preferance of assuming humanoid shape. Combat: Zarkshaks relish the thrill of battle. Despite their formidable natural weapons as dragons, they delight in armed combat and the use of magic. They tend to fight with energy and delight, although tendancies towards mercy and/or surrender vary by individual. Breath Weapon(su): Usbale once every 1d4 rounds. Line of fire, 1d8 damage (1d8 damage per 2 hit dice/levels), reflex save dc:14 for half. Spells(sp): A zarkshak can cast spells as a 2nd level sorcerer, spells known 5/2, spells per day 6/4. Common spells known include prestadigitation, light, daze, detect magic, mage hand, magic missile, shield or detect magic, prestadigitation, dancing lights, ghost sound, detect poison color spray, unseen servant or detect magic, ray of frost, flare, daze, disrupt undead, magic missile, sleep Spell Resistance: A zarkshak has spell resistance equal to 6 plus their total racial hit dice plus their character level.
dok 11-27-05, 01:29 PM	OK, this is a lot more workable... First, the statblock: Speed: 40ft, fly 30ft(poor) Now it's a Medium creature with a base speed of 40 ft. I'm still going to ask why it moves faster than other medium-sized humanoids. Why not have its base speed at 30 ft? A 1st level Barbarian would now sport a base speed of 50 ft., which is almost twice as fast as most medium sized humanoids. Attacks: Bite+4 melee, 2 claws+0 melee Since the creature doesn't have the Multiattack feat, those claws should be at -1, not +0. (-5 for secondary attacks) Saves: Fort+3,Ref+3,Will+3 Fortitude Saving throw should be +4; base +3, +1 Constitution. Close inspection reveals that the creature is wearing a translucent vest almost indistinguishable in color and texture from its skin, complete with a pouch for storing items (five times the capacity of a backpack), a loop for a sheath and a slot for a sheild. This needs to be seperated out from the flavor text, because you're now describing a piece of equipment/armor. And there are several pieces to this item that need evaluation: 1.) It provides a +2 armor bonus to AC, the equivalent of leather armor. Does it have a maximum dexterty modifier, an armor check penalty, Arcane Spell Failure chance? 2.) How does a 'pouch for storing items' on a vest, have five times the capacity of a backpack made for a creature of the same size? 3.) If this is a vest, does it take up the "Vest/Vestiment/Shirt" slot, or does it take up the "Armor" slot? 4.) Is the 'translucent' description flavor text, or is there an intended game-benefit? (people not noticing the armor/vest being worn?) Breath Weapon(su): Usbale once every 1d4 rounds. Line of fire, 1d8 damage (1d10 damage per 2 hit dice/levels), reflex save dc:14 for half. I'm confused by the parenthetical entry. Does this creature's breath weapon become stronger if they add more class levels?? And how, exactly does that work? The base creature's breath weapon is 1d8, but if it adds two levels, does it become 1d10, or 1d8+1d10. If it adds four class levels, is it now 2d20, or 1d8+2d10? Why does a racial abilty like breath weapon scale with class levels? Now, as for CR: allegedly, a 2nd level sorcerer NPC, properly equipped, is CR 2. This creature has natural weapons, natural armor, armor, flight, and a breath weapon; that should more than make up for a lack of equipment. So this creature's CR should be at least 2, and probably 3. To look at LA, let's drill-down what a PC would get: *Flight speed *faster than normal ground speed *+2 natural armor *"shedskin vest" *3 natural attacks that are 1-size scaled up from those of a half-fiend or half-dragon. *Fire resistance 10 *Spell resistance 6+HD *Two Dragon HD (good BAB, saves, and lots of skill points with Spot & Listen as class skills) *Two levels of Sorcerer *Breath Weapon. *+4 strength, +2 constitution, +2 intelligence, +2 charisma. I'm inclined to say that the Flight speed, plus the faster than normal ground speed are worth +1 LA. I'll stick the Fire Resistance and SR together for another +1 LA. The Natural Attacks, both because of their number, and because they're better than you see on Medium creatures normally, are another +1 LA The ability scores merit a +1 LA. I'm left with a breath weapon, and natural armor bonus, plus the 'shedskin vest' equipment, which together I'll bundle for another +1 LA. (it's a weak +1, but there's one more factor here) There is the equivalent of two sorcerer levels, but with much better hit dice, BAB, saves, and skills because it comes with two Dragon Hit Dice. That's not worth a level-adjustment in and of itself, but it does shore up that weak +1 LA from thebreath weapon/natural armor/shedskin vest. That gives me a level-adjustment of +5, with two racial HD for an ECL 7 as a starting point. That might be too high, but I'll let others poke holes in my argument first, before I return to make some comparisons.
R.M.G.C.L.F. 11-27-05, 01:54 PM	OK, this is a lot more workable... First, the statblock: Speed: 40ft, fly 30ft(poor) Now it's a Medium creature with a base speed of 40 ft. I'm still going to ask why it moves faster than other medium-sized humanoids. Why not have its base speed at 30 ft? A 1st level Barbarian would now sport a base speed of 50 ft., which is almost twice as fast as most medium sized humanoids. I gave it the higher land speed because it can still go on all fours. Attacks: Bite+4 melee, 2 claws+0 melee Since the creature doesn't have the Multiattack feat, those claws should be at -1, not +0. (-5 for secondary attacks) Okay. I thought it was -4. Fixed. Saves: Fort+3,Ref+3,Will+3 Fortitude Saving throw should be +4; base +3, +1 Constitution. fixed Close inspection reveals that the creature is wearing a translucent vest almost indistinguishable in color and texture from its skin, complete with a pouch for storing items (five times the capacity of a backpack), a loop for a sheath and a slot for a sheild. This needs to be seperated out from the flavor text, because you're now describing a piece of equipment/armor. And there are several pieces to this item that need evaluation: 1.) It provides a +2 armor bonus to AC, the equivalent of leather armor. Does it have a maximum dexterty modifier, an armor check penalty, Arcane Spell Failure chance? 2.) How does a 'pouch for storing items' on a vest, have five times the capacity of a backpack made for a creature of the same size? 3.) If this is a vest, does it take up the "Vest/Vestiment/Shirt" slot, or does it take up the "Armor" slot? 4.) Is the 'translucent' description flavor text, or is there an intended game-benefit? (people not noticing the armor/vest being worn?) The translucent bit is flavor text. As for the nature of the armor, I really hadn't worked that out. I'd better scrap it and replace it with shedskin leather armor and a built-in backpack. Breath Weapon(su): Usbale once every 1d4 rounds. Line of fire, 1d8 damage (1d10 damage per 2 hit dice/levels), reflex save dc:14 for half. I'm confused by the parenthetical entry. Does this creature's breath weapon become stronger if they add more class levels?? And how, exactly does that work? The base creature's breath weapon is 1d8, but if it adds two levels, does it become 1d10, or 1d8+1d10. If it adds four class levels, is it now 2d20, or 1d8+2d10? Why does a racial abilty like breath weapon scale with class levels? About the paranthetical confusion, I originally wrote it as 1d10, but then changed it back to 1d8 without changing the parenthetical note. It should be 1d8 all the way through. As for the scaling with class levels, the idea is that as it gets more powerful its breath weapon becomes greater, just like a half-celestial or half-fiend gains access to more powerful spell-like abilities as it increases in class level. I edited the text, hope it seems clearer now. Now, as for CR: allegedly, a 2nd level sorcerer NPC, properly equipped, is CR 2. This creature has natural weapons, natural armor, armor, flight, and a breath weapon; that should more than make up for a lack of equipment. So this creature's CR should be at least 2, and probably 3. I see. To look at LA, let's drill-down what a PC would get: *Flight speed *faster than normal ground speed *+2 natural armor *"shedskin vest" *3 natural attacks that are 1-size scaled up from those of a half-fiend or half-dragon. *Fire resistance 10 *Spell resistance 6+HD *Two Dragon HD (good BAB, saves, and lots of skill points with Spot & Listen as class skills) *Two levels of Sorcerer *Breath Weapon. *+4 strength, +2 constitution, +2 intelligence, +2 charisma. I'm inclined to say that the Flight speed, plus the faster than normal ground speed are worth +1 LA. I'll stick the Fire Resistance and SR together for another +1 LA. The Natural Attacks, both because of their number, and because they're better than you see on Medium creatures normally, are another +1 LA The ability scores merit a +1 LA. I'm left with a breath weapon, and natural armor bonus, plus the 'shedskin vest' equipment, which together I'll bundle for another +1 LA. (it's a weak +1, but there's one more factor here) There is the equivalent of two sorcerer levels, but with much better hit dice, BAB, saves, and skills because it comes with two Dragon Hit Dice. That's not worth a level-adjustment in and of itself, but it does shore up that weak +1 LA from thebreath weapon/natural armor/shedskin vest. That gives me a level-adjustment of +5, with two racial HD for an ECL 7 as a starting point. That might be too high, but I'll let others poke holes in my argument first, before I return to make some comparisons. I just want to pop in and point out that sorcerer caster levels are not the same as sorcerer levels. They lack the BAB increase, skill points, hit dice, and bonus spells which, while small bonuses, are not altogether negigable. The shedskin vest is really not supposed to factor into the LA any more than an orc's greataxe affects it's LA. It's supposed to be a form of treasure/equipment rather than a racial benefit. Does it still seem playable/worth taking at ELC7? If not how do you think I could adjust it to make it more balanced?
R.M.G.C.L.F. 11-27-05, 02:07 PM	able to cast 2nd level Arcane spells Just a nitpick, but a sorcerer cannot cast 2nd level arcane spells until they reach 4th level.
hiryuu 11-27-05, 02:27 PM	Sadly, LA isn't a "tallying" process. It's more of a "pinging" process; a gut feeling. My gut says this is +3 or +4 at most. At most. Look at dromites, githyanki, and githzerai from the Exapnded Psionics handbook for some of the reasons my gut says this is way lower than this looks.
R.M.G.C.L.F. 11-27-05, 02:40 PM	Just reduced the damage for bite and claw. Shedskin is just a material, like leather, wood, cloth, or metal. The rules upshot is that it is organic but it doesn't have the particularly high flammability of cloth and wood.
OamuTheMonk 11-27-05, 03:08 PM	...but I would like to commend Dok (for his exceptionally detailed criticism), and Finger (for his sterling lack of defensiveness regarding said criticism). Kudos all around, people. Way to raise standards.
dok 11-27-05, 04:07 PM	I gave it the higher land speed because it can still go on all fours. The only reason I'm uncomfortable with this is that the creature is also capable of using weapons & shields and other hand-held items and still have a faster ground speed in combat. I get the idea, but mechanically it means the Barbarian with the Greataxe still lopes around the battlefield faster than everyone else. Maybe the ground speed should be dropped to 30 ft. and a special quality added were it can Run at a faster rate if it has nothing in its hands? I just want to pop in and point out that sorcerer caster levels are not the same as sorcerer levels. They lack the BAB increase, skill points, hit dice, and bonus spells which, while small bonuses, are not altogether negigable. Actually, the Sorcerer levels are gained at the same time as the Dragon Hit Dice, which means better BAB, skill points, saves, and hit dice. And creatures that case "as a " spellcaster do gain bonus spells for high ability scores. If we set the LA = +0 and compared a Sorcerer 10 to an "adventuring dragon 8", the difference would be noticable. I'll also say that I deliberately over-estimated the LA because I wanted other folks to come in and comment. When you're trying to estimate Level-Adjustment, it's always best to overestimate, and then ease back. It's also best to get as many diverse opinions as possible. At this point, I'd suggest making some comparisons to further refine LA. Look at an ECL 10 Half-Dragon and an ECL 15 Half-Dragon. Look at a human Fighter/Sorcerer/Spellsword at level 10 & level 15. (I'd say use an Eldrich Knight, but you're using 3E & not 3.5) Compare this to an Aranea Sorcerer at ECL 10 and ECL 15. I'd definitely compare this to the Half-Dragon template, as well as the Aranea, and see how they stack up...
R.M.G.C.L.F. 11-27-05, 10:50 PM	The only reason I'm uncomfortable with this is that the creature is also capable of using weapons & shields and other hand-held items and still have a faster ground speed in combat. I get the idea, but mechanically it means the Barbarian with the Greataxe still lopes around the battlefield faster than everyone else. Maybe the ground speed should be dropped to 30 ft. and a special quality added were it can Run at a faster rate if it has nothing in its hands? That might be a bit complicated. Maybe I should just drop it to 30ft outright. Actually, the Sorcerer levels are gained at the same time as the Dragon Hit Dice, which means better BAB, skill points, saves, and hit dice. And creatures that case "as a " spellcaster do gain bonus spells for high ability scores. If we set the LA = +0 and compared a Sorcerer 10 to an "adventuring dragon 8", the difference would be noticable. I'm aware that they get better BAB, saves, etc. However, if you replace the caster levels as sorcerer levels, then they would be recieving the sorcerer skills, hit dice, BAB, etc. in addition to the exisiting racial hit dice. I'll also say that I deliberately over-estimated the LA because I wanted other folks to come in and comment. When you're trying to estimate Level-Adjustment, it's always best to overestimate, and then ease back. It's also best to get as many diverse opinions as possible. At this point, I'd suggest making some comparisons to further refine LA. Look at an ECL 10 Half-Dragon and an ECL 15 Half-Dragon. Look at a human Fighter/Sorcerer/Spellsword at level 10 & level 15. (I'd say use an Eldrich Knight, but you're using 3E & not 3.5) Compare this to an Aranea Sorcerer at ECL 10 and ECL 15. I'd definitely compare this to the Half-Dragon template, as well as the Aranea, and see how they stack up... I see. I'm a little unsure how I'll rate the price for the breath weapon with it's increase, but I'm definately not going to change it. One of the reasons I made it that way was so that it would have a good strong value throughout, instead of being powerful at low levels and useless mid-to-high like so many other abilities of greater than zero LA races. I'm glad for your attempt to get more people to comment, but I don't think it's succeeded. Hiryuu only commented after I specifically asked him over messenger. =/ Maybe I should try reposting this as a race in the race forums for more LA feedback?
OamuTheMonk 11-27-05, 11:40 PM	From my standpoint, I'm a lot more capable of gauging a monsters CR than it's ECL. It's just easier to figure how a monster stacks up over one battle, rather than twenty levels, and I don't have the race-creating experience to even begin to address the variables here.