Advice for 12th level PC encounters [Archive] - Wizards Community

Advice for 12th level PC encounters [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Malkonnen
02-21-06, 05:58 PM I've gotten myself into a bit of a rut with my gaming group. I've DMed them from 1st through 12th level and I feel like there's nothing new to throw at them. Any advice for some interesting mobs to throw at them for the random encounters?

Important campaign-specific restrictions: there are no dragons, and non-native outsiders are extremely rare (and thus I'd rather not use them as random encounters), and the terrain they're currently travelling over is a temperate desert wasteland with little to no vegetation predominately populated with undead.

Has WotC come out with any kind of random encounter table for 3.5?
runestar
02-21-06, 09:25 PM Have you perhaps considered some of the homebrewed adventures available for free download at the wotc dnd page? Always good in a pinch if you are pressed for time. :D
Obsidianjaerc
02-21-06, 09:48 PM If you can, you the supplement Sandstorm. It gives tons of encounters for a desert both monsters and enviromental hazards. Or going just by SRD a temprate desert populated with undead just screams mummy to me.

Combine some of the following and you'll have a fun but difficult encounter. Mummy Lord, wight followers, quicksand, give the Lord telekenises and your set.

Don't count out abberations. An oasis, may be home to a freshwater Aboleth. Or imagine palm tree treats, that throw cocunuts at intruders.

Maybe they encounter a tribe of bhuka (or good-aligned goblins if you dont have acess to Sandstorm) who's shaman hasn't returned from his vision quest to the Fields of Glass. Following the hook they find a section of the desert where a cataclysmic spell (or nuke or w/e) has melted a few square miles of sand into a massive plane of thick glass. First off how will they deal with the glare, second how will they immense heat coming off the thing. If they can't fly (or even if they can, it cant last forever) how will they walk on it? For that matter how did the shaman survive previous vision quest? And what's happened to him now?
The Vorpal Tribble
02-21-06, 10:04 PM Heres an idea... a psion of some type is found out in the middle of the desert, perhaps in an overhang of rock where the shade is not too bad. The person has been here for over a year, using Suspend Life to survive. For some reason they were banished into the desert, but she survived and is 'ticked'. Upon noticing the players she slowly comes out of her trance and begs them for water.

Perhaps she then tries to take over the player's minds or bring them to her side, enraging them against the folks who frist banished her. Something a bit subtle perhaps. If they become suspicious and threatening she tries to kill them to take their supplies so that she may leave the desert. Perhaps she even tries to keep one alive to lead her out the way they came in.
dok
02-22-06, 01:02 PM Well, let's start by using the SRD monster filter (http://www.d20srd.org/filters/monster.php), filtering for monsters with a listed terrain of Desert, and a CR no higher than 15. (two CR 15 monsters makes an EL 17, which is the toughest fight you'd want to throw at a group of 12th level PCs)

We'll ignore any Undead and Outsiders, and probably pass on most Plants.

Let's consider what that leaves us with:
The Basilisk is a CR 5 monster; advancing it by +6 racial HD adds +3 to it's CR (+2 for HD, +1 for a size increase) for a final CR of 8. A "colony" of Basalists is 3-6; four CR 8 monsters makes for an EL 12 encounter, while six would make for an EL 13 encounter.
Dragonnes are CR 7. A Pride of 6 of them would be EL 12, though that might be too weak. Advancing them +6 racial HD adds +3 to the CR, for a CR 10; three advanced Dragonnes are EL 13, and would be fairly tough.
The Lamia is a classic desert monster. It's only CR 6 to start, but adding +9 racial HD would boost it's CR by +4, to a final CR of 10. A pair is EL 12, while a trio would be EL 13. Plus, see below for mixed group suggestions.
Mohrgs are undead that appear anywhere. At a base CR 8, a group of eight of them gives an EL of 14. Alternatively, you could add class levels to one and use it with a mixed group. Four levels of Ranger or Rogue would push it to CR 12. With a group of EL 11, that would make him a moderately challenging encounter. With five levels and an EL 12 group, he's a pretty tough fight.
Monstrous Scorpions are fun; best to use them in an ambush and then let smart PCs fly out of reach and fire away. Five Huge Scorpions (CR 7) make an EL 12, while four Gargantuan scorpions (CR 10) make an EL 14.
The Mummy is another classic desert monster, but with a starting CR of 5, he needs some help. Adding +8 racial HD gives us +2 CR. From there, we could add levels of Rogue or Monk to bring the CR up to a desired level of somewhere between CR 9 and CR 12. It really depends on how tough you want the fight to be. A Mummy with 5 levels of Monk is probably about CR 12; four of those will put a serious hurt on your party.
The last specific Undead I'll mention is the infamous Dread Wraith. Clocking in at CR 11, two of them will hammer your party into near oblivion, despite a deceptive EL of only 13. You could go as high as four of them, if your party is well armed & expecting undead.
Really big skelletons (15+ HD) are viable as mooks, luetenants and bodyguards (see below).
The Sphynx family of creatures are classic desert encounters. With CRs between 5 and 9, some work would need to be done. All can be advanced by racial HD, which adds +1 CR per 3 racial HD, with an addtional +1 for size increases when appropriate. A fullly-advanced Hieracosphynx clocks in at CR 12. With six normal Hieracosphynxs following (each CR 5), that gets a net EL of around 13, though the normal Hieracosphynxs are not going to be terribly effective.

Mixed Groups
While single-creature type encounters can be fun, other configurations exist.
Master and Servant: a single creature, plus one creature whose CR is 2 lower create a net EL equal to the higher creature's CR +1
Leader and bodyguards: a single creature, plus two creatures whose CR are 4 lower create a final EL equal to the single creature's CR +1
Leader and mooks: a Single creature, plus four creatures whose individual CRs are 6 lower creature a final EL equal to the single creature's CR +1. (remember that creatures whose CR is five points or lower than the party level are rarely effective, so this works best with mooks whose CR is no more than four lower than the party's)
Master, servant, and mooks: One creature, plus one creature whose CR is 2 lower, plus four creatures whose CR is 6 lower than the master's, all together net a final EL of the highest creature's CR plus two.

Building the individual encounters is something I leave for you. I will say that at level 12, you should always use multiple monsters, even if it's just one advanced creature with a group of normal creatures, or two advanced creatures with other normal creatures.
Malkonnen
02-22-06, 04:50 PM First off let me say thanks for all the great ideas. Plus a special thank you to runestar and dok, for pointing out two great online resources I wasn't aware of.

Second, in response to some of the specific suggestions you guys have made. I probably should have clarified a little better, but I made the post yesterday just before leaving work. The PCs are currently leaving an Underdark like region (homebrew setting), and emerging high up in a temperate-to-cold mountainous region. From there they are headed into a cursed wasteland where the sun never shines and nothing natural grows. The few inhabitants that can manage to scrape out an existance in these extreme conditions would include scavenger monsters (vermin, otyughs, etc.), tough nomadic tribes of monsters (orgres, trolls, and giants), larger predators that can prey on these nomads (frost worm, remorhaz, etc), and undead as those that die here rise again as undead within hours.

The PCs have been to the region before, but were much lower level at the time and I'm trying to come up with new and interesting encounters while somehow maintaining some continuity/believability.

One other thing I should clarify: it is a very large party. The PCs consist of a Goliath Barbarian1/Cleric10, an elf Druid9/Tamer of Beasts3 (homebrewed 3.5 conversion), a halfling Sorceror12, and a Satyr Bard10. Not too bad, right? Well there are also 2 NPCs, which are plot driven and the druid and bard both picked up the leadership feat making things a bit more crowded. The druid has an awakened Dire Lion Barbarian1 as a cohort, and about a dozen wolves as followers. And the bard has a Wemic Fighter4/Scout4 as a cohort, with a Pixie rogue2 and a halfling cleric5 as followers.

Right now I'm planning adjusting encounters so that they fight 50% (maybe more??) more monsters than normal for their EL. For example instead of 4 CR 8 mobs for an EL 12, I treat 6 CR 8 mobs as an EL 12 for them. I went with inflating the number of mobs for EL calculation as opposed to just having them fight higher ELs, because I realized consistently throwing higher CR mobs at them would eventually result in a partial if not TPK.

What do you guys think?
dok
02-22-06, 05:22 PM I probably should have clarified a little better, but I made the post yesterday just before leaving work.

Well, yes. What you've described would either be a Cold Desert, or Cold Plains. Frost Wyrms and Rhemoraz only show up in arctic regions.

Regardless, the layout of groups still applies, and the monster filter can be set to whatever climate and terrain you'd like.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Malkonnen 02-21-06, 05:58 PM	I've gotten myself into a bit of a rut with my gaming group. I've DMed them from 1st through 12th level and I feel like there's nothing new to throw at them. Any advice for some interesting mobs to throw at them for the random encounters? Important campaign-specific restrictions: there are no dragons, and non-native outsiders are extremely rare (and thus I'd rather not use them as random encounters), and the terrain they're currently travelling over is a temperate desert wasteland with little to no vegetation predominately populated with undead. Has WotC come out with any kind of random encounter table for 3.5?
runestar 02-21-06, 09:25 PM	Have you perhaps considered some of the homebrewed adventures available for free download at the wotc dnd page? Always good in a pinch if you are pressed for time. :D
Obsidianjaerc 02-21-06, 09:48 PM	If you can, you the supplement Sandstorm. It gives tons of encounters for a desert both monsters and enviromental hazards. Or going just by SRD a temprate desert populated with undead just screams mummy to me. Combine some of the following and you'll have a fun but difficult encounter. Mummy Lord, wight followers, quicksand, give the Lord telekenises and your set. Don't count out abberations. An oasis, may be home to a freshwater Aboleth. Or imagine palm tree treats, that throw cocunuts at intruders. Maybe they encounter a tribe of bhuka (or good-aligned goblins if you dont have acess to Sandstorm) who's shaman hasn't returned from his vision quest to the Fields of Glass. Following the hook they find a section of the desert where a cataclysmic spell (or nuke or w/e) has melted a few square miles of sand into a massive plane of thick glass. First off how will they deal with the glare, second how will they immense heat coming off the thing. If they can't fly (or even if they can, it cant last forever) how will they walk on it? For that matter how did the shaman survive previous vision quest? And what's happened to him now?
The Vorpal Tribble 02-21-06, 10:04 PM	Heres an idea... a psion of some type is found out in the middle of the desert, perhaps in an overhang of rock where the shade is not too bad. The person has been here for over a year, using Suspend Life to survive. For some reason they were banished into the desert, but she survived and is 'ticked'. Upon noticing the players she slowly comes out of her trance and begs them for water. Perhaps she then tries to take over the player's minds or bring them to her side, enraging them against the folks who frist banished her. Something a bit subtle perhaps. If they become suspicious and threatening she tries to kill them to take their supplies so that she may leave the desert. Perhaps she even tries to keep one alive to lead her out the way they came in.
dok 02-22-06, 01:02 PM	Well, let's start by using the SRD monster filter (http://www.d20srd.org/filters/monster.php), filtering for monsters with a listed terrain of Desert, and a CR no higher than 15. (two CR 15 monsters makes an EL 17, which is the toughest fight you'd want to throw at a group of 12th level PCs) We'll ignore any Undead and Outsiders, and probably pass on most Plants. Let's consider what that leaves us with: The Basilisk is a CR 5 monster; advancing it by +6 racial HD adds +3 to it's CR (+2 for HD, +1 for a size increase) for a final CR of 8. A "colony" of Basalists is 3-6; four CR 8 monsters makes for an EL 12 encounter, while six would make for an EL 13 encounter. Dragonnes are CR 7. A Pride of 6 of them would be EL 12, though that might be too weak. Advancing them +6 racial HD adds +3 to the CR, for a CR 10; three advanced Dragonnes are EL 13, and would be fairly tough. The Lamia is a classic desert monster. It's only CR 6 to start, but adding +9 racial HD would boost it's CR by +4, to a final CR of 10. A pair is EL 12, while a trio would be EL 13. Plus, see below for mixed group suggestions. Mohrgs are undead that appear anywhere. At a base CR 8, a group of eight of them gives an EL of 14. Alternatively, you could add class levels to one and use it with a mixed group. Four levels of Ranger or Rogue would push it to CR 12. With a group of EL 11, that would make him a moderately challenging encounter. With five levels and an EL 12 group, he's a pretty tough fight. Monstrous Scorpions are fun; best to use them in an ambush and then let smart PCs fly out of reach and fire away. Five Huge Scorpions (CR 7) make an EL 12, while four Gargantuan scorpions (CR 10) make an EL 14. The Mummy is another classic desert monster, but with a starting CR of 5, he needs some help. Adding +8 racial HD gives us +2 CR. From there, we could add levels of Rogue or Monk to bring the CR up to a desired level of somewhere between CR 9 and CR 12. It really depends on how tough you want the fight to be. A Mummy with 5 levels of Monk is probably about CR 12; four of those will put a serious hurt on your party. The last specific Undead I'll mention is the infamous Dread Wraith. Clocking in at CR 11, two of them will hammer your party into near oblivion, despite a deceptive EL of only 13. You could go as high as four of them, if your party is well armed & expecting undead. Really big skelletons (15+ HD) are viable as mooks, luetenants and bodyguards (see below). The Sphynx family of creatures are classic desert encounters. With CRs between 5 and 9, some work would need to be done. All can be advanced by racial HD, which adds +1 CR per 3 racial HD, with an addtional +1 for size increases when appropriate. A fullly-advanced Hieracosphynx clocks in at CR 12. With six normal Hieracosphynxs following (each CR 5), that gets a net EL of around 13, though the normal Hieracosphynxs are not going to be terribly effective. Mixed Groups While single-creature type encounters can be fun, other configurations exist. Master and Servant: a single creature, plus one creature whose CR is 2 lower create a net EL equal to the higher creature's CR +1 Leader and bodyguards: a single creature, plus two creatures whose CR are 4 lower create a final EL equal to the single creature's CR +1 Leader and mooks: a Single creature, plus four creatures whose individual CRs are 6 lower creature a final EL equal to the single creature's CR +1. (remember that creatures whose CR is five points or lower than the party level are rarely effective, so this works best with mooks whose CR is no more than four lower than the party's) Master, servant, and mooks: One creature, plus one creature whose CR is 2 lower, plus four creatures whose CR is 6 lower than the master's, all together net a final EL of the highest creature's CR plus two. Building the individual encounters is something I leave for you. I will say that at level 12, you should always use multiple monsters, even if it's just one advanced creature with a group of normal creatures, or two advanced creatures with other normal creatures.
Malkonnen 02-22-06, 04:50 PM	First off let me say thanks for all the great ideas. Plus a special thank you to runestar and dok, for pointing out two great online resources I wasn't aware of. Second, in response to some of the specific suggestions you guys have made. I probably should have clarified a little better, but I made the post yesterday just before leaving work. The PCs are currently leaving an Underdark like region (homebrew setting), and emerging high up in a temperate-to-cold mountainous region. From there they are headed into a cursed wasteland where the sun never shines and nothing natural grows. The few inhabitants that can manage to scrape out an existance in these extreme conditions would include scavenger monsters (vermin, otyughs, etc.), tough nomadic tribes of monsters (orgres, trolls, and giants), larger predators that can prey on these nomads (frost worm, remorhaz, etc), and undead as those that die here rise again as undead within hours. The PCs have been to the region before, but were much lower level at the time and I'm trying to come up with new and interesting encounters while somehow maintaining some continuity/believability. One other thing I should clarify: it is a very large party. The PCs consist of a Goliath Barbarian1/Cleric10, an elf Druid9/Tamer of Beasts3 (homebrewed 3.5 conversion), a halfling Sorceror12, and a Satyr Bard10. Not too bad, right? Well there are also 2 NPCs, which are plot driven and the druid and bard both picked up the leadership feat making things a bit more crowded. The druid has an awakened Dire Lion Barbarian1 as a cohort, and about a dozen wolves as followers. And the bard has a Wemic Fighter4/Scout4 as a cohort, with a Pixie rogue2 and a halfling cleric5 as followers. Right now I'm planning adjusting encounters so that they fight 50% (maybe more??) more monsters than normal for their EL. For example instead of 4 CR 8 mobs for an EL 12, I treat 6 CR 8 mobs as an EL 12 for them. I went with inflating the number of mobs for EL calculation as opposed to just having them fight higher ELs, because I realized consistently throwing higher CR mobs at them would eventually result in a partial if not TPK. What do you guys think?
dok 02-22-06, 05:22 PM	I probably should have clarified a little better, but I made the post yesterday just before leaving work. Well, yes. What you've described would either be a Cold Desert, or Cold Plains. Frost Wyrms and Rhemoraz only show up in arctic regions. Regardless, the layout of groups still applies, and the monster filter can be set to whatever climate and terrain you'd like.