Post/Author/DateTime	Post
monkeycat 05-31-07, 02:19 AM	My PC's are about to encounter a blue dragon, and I wanted some opinions on how tough to make it. The party just turned level 2. They are a Dwarven Fighter, Human Sorcerer, Halfling Scout and Human Cleric. Their wealth per level is per the DMG, although it's found treasure, so it isn't totally optimized. The players do pretty well, but they're not exactly a well-oiled machine, tactics-wise. I've giving them plenty of advantages - they know what it is, where it is, and can approach it when they choose. I'm even giving them a chance to prepare their equipment, to a certain extent. I want a tough battle, but I'm not looking for TPK. I'm using the pre-made dragons statted out in the back of the Draconomicon, so my choices are a CR3 wrymling and a CR4 very young. The CR6 young dragon is definitely too tough, IMO. I feel like the CR4 is too much also, mostly because of the high hit points. Any suggestions?
Derren S. 05-31-07, 04:19 AM	Use the CR 3 wyrmling and play it intelligently instead the very young dragon and dumb it down. Because to me it looks like that you desperatly want your players to win, but when you put your PCs against an iconic monster that has a higher CR than what they have imo you should be prepared to kill PCs or to even do a tpk. If you are not comfortable with that, use a different monster. What advice are you looking for? advice what dragon to use to make it easy for your players? Advice of how to play the dragon?
Roivas 05-31-07, 05:46 AM	A very young dragon is best served by fighting on the wing and a blue dragon has a burrow speed. these are two movement modes that 2nd levels characters simply can't reproduce. So the best method to ensure the party doesn't just get steamrolled is to give them a chance to fight underground in a location that the dragon can't burrow through. Then it will most likely attempt escape, so leave it to the party to decide how best to stop it from fleeing [since they won't get a second chance like that] and just let the dragon play as a trapped animal. Fight or flight? You decide.
Derren S. 05-31-07, 05:55 AM	Of course then you have to find a reason why a desert living dragon which is as intelligent as a normal human makes its home in an area where it can't use its advantages (flying and burrowing).
primemover003 05-31-07, 12:55 PM	Well using Dazzle from Dra may be an pretty interesting fight! Because it's small you should make it's lair hard to access for the medium sized creatures... Long, narrow, low tunnels where they might have to squeeze through and be subject to it's breath weapon. Think like a kobold! I would also use it's burrow ability to make small pit traps and rockfall traps. Remember the Dwarf should get a Search Check because of his stonecunning ability to notice these if the Scout doesn't look for them. Remember Dazzle has the Clinging Breath feat so even if he has to wait a few rounds for it to recharge it'll keep damaging them! Destroy water is a good ability to use on low level PC's because they're highly likely to be carrying potions... nothing hits a low level fighter harder than destroying their potions (like using shatter on them).
monkeycat 06-01-07, 12:59 AM	Thanks for your replies. Flight and Burrow do add something to the equation. I like the idea of the traps. Because to me it looks like that you desperatly want your players to win, It's not a matter of wanting the players to win, it's a matter of crafting a balanced encounter. When I said I wasn't looking for a TPK, I meant that I didn't want to send them up against something obviously too tough. So, given the situation described above, should I use the CR3 or CR4 version? Theoretically a CR3 monster should be a tough but manageable encounter for a level 2 party. I've already stacked the odds in favor of the PC's in several ways, though, so does that justify using the CR4 dragon? I'm leaning towards using the CR3. I'll have to think of a better name than 'Dazzle' though.
Derren S. 06-01-07, 01:39 AM	so does that justify using the CR4 dragon? In the end that solely depends on how you run the dragon. Do you use flying and burrowing? Do you let it rethreat when its HP get low (again burrowing)? Will you focus on one PC even if you know that the next attack will kill him?
monkeycat 06-01-07, 01:56 AM	In the end that solely depends on how you run the dragon. Well, partially true. There are certain mechanical differences (like almost twice as many hit points, twice as much damage from the breath weapon) that will factor in regardless. I agree with your suggestion to play the CR3 smart vs. the CR4 dumb. I think that will make for a more enjoyable encounter, both for me and the players.
Derren S. 06-01-07, 02:02 AM	Actually I would never ever suggest to play a monster, especially when it has high int and wis, dumb only to cater players. Always play monsters smart (according to their ability) and when in doubt use a weaker monster. A donated(?) victory is no victory at all. The question is rather how much experience you have with dragons and if you are willing to focus and kill PCs quickly. How much chance do your PCs have to tailor their equipment for this combat? That is also a large factor (and only gets more important with higher levels).
monkeycat 06-01-07, 02:33 AM	A donated(?) victory is no victory at all. Yes, but a dead party isn't much fun for anybody.:( How much chance do your PCs have to tailor their equipment for this combat? That is also a large factor (and only gets more important with higher levels). At their current location they can buy and sell what they want. It's more a matter of how much they take advantage of that. My players are great role-players, but they're still honing their tactical skills. Part of the reason I'm giving them these advantages is to encourage them to plan out the attack instead of just blundering in. I'll get more aggressive as time goes on, don't worry.