Amethyst Dragon question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Amethyst Dragon question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Chaostic
04-12-06, 04:28 PM The Amethyst Dragon gains a +4 bonus to saving throws vs. force effects.

How does this affect spells like Magic Missile (that have no saving throw)?

If it only grants a bonus to saving throws that are already permissible, it only has a benefit against the following five (5) spells: Blade Barrier, Explosive Runes (maybe), Resilient Sphere, Telekenetic Sphere, and Sepia Snake Sigil.

Is it just me, or does that seem a bit, uh.... limited? Now, if it also granted the opportunity to make a saving throw when none was permitted before (such as against Magic Missile), then that would seem to be not a complete and utter waste.

Am I missing something?

TIA
savant_warlord13
04-12-06, 05:42 PM the saving throw bonus provides no help if there is no save

That said, many spells have been published in various sources, some of which may be force spells that allow saving throws
Chaostic
04-12-06, 06:12 PM Granted.

It just seems odd, given that other dragons possess immunity to fire/cold/whatever, and this dragon gets a +4 save to four and a half SRD spells.

*Shrug*

I thought there may have been an errata or something.

Thanks!
savant_warlord13
04-12-06, 06:23 PM I could be wrong, but I believe it has fire resistance 20 as well
Moribund
04-12-06, 06:29 PM Well they didn't want to give them immunity to force, because then you would have amethyst dragons walking through walls of force.

Force isn't really an energy descriptor, so you can't really give them "force resistance". If it bothers you, you can make them immune to force damage (which is defined in the glossary).
RavinRay
04-13-06, 08:06 AM Bruce Cordell gave it (and Steve Winter retained) poison immunity and force resistance because, I speculate: the former is a hold-over from its 2e stats, and it is in-line with amethyst's property of granting its wearer alcohol immunity (no drunken-ness) from the Greek myth of Dionysus pursuing the nymph Amethyst who was turned into a statue by one of the goddesses in response to her plea, for which Dionysus expressed remorse and shed tears of wine staining the statue violet; and the latter is of course due to its breath weapon, though in 2e the breath weapon was the explosive lozenge. And, like all other gem dragons except the obsidian dragon, it has fire resistance 15.
savant_warlord13
04-13-06, 11:04 AM I could be wrong, but I believe it has fire resistance 20 as well

I checked, and all gem dragons have fire resistance 30

Amethyst dragons also have no vulnerability to cold, so you might consider it to be even better than a red dragon's fire immunity
RavinRay
04-13-06, 09:57 PM This was corrected in the 3.5 update to Monster Manual II to fire resistance 15; I figure 30 is too high a value and gives them too much of an advantage over chromatic and metallic dragons. It is just anough for them to avoid damage in the Elemental Plane of Fire if they choose to dwell there.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Chaostic 04-12-06, 04:28 PM	The Amethyst Dragon gains a +4 bonus to saving throws vs. force effects. How does this affect spells like Magic Missile (that have no saving throw)? If it only grants a bonus to saving throws that are already permissible, it only has a benefit against the following five (5) spells: Blade Barrier, Explosive Runes (maybe), Resilient Sphere, Telekenetic Sphere, and Sepia Snake Sigil. Is it just me, or does that seem a bit, uh.... limited? Now, if it also granted the opportunity to make a saving throw when none was permitted before (such as against Magic Missile), then that would seem to be not a complete and utter waste. Am I missing something? TIA
savant_warlord13 04-12-06, 05:42 PM	the saving throw bonus provides no help if there is no save That said, many spells have been published in various sources, some of which may be force spells that allow saving throws
Chaostic 04-12-06, 06:12 PM	Granted. It just seems odd, given that other dragons possess immunity to fire/cold/whatever, and this dragon gets a +4 save to four and a half SRD spells. Shrug I thought there may have been an errata or something. Thanks!
savant_warlord13 04-12-06, 06:23 PM	I could be wrong, but I believe it has fire resistance 20 as well
Moribund 04-12-06, 06:29 PM	Well they didn't want to give them immunity to force, because then you would have amethyst dragons walking through walls of force. Force isn't really an energy descriptor, so you can't really give them "force resistance". If it bothers you, you can make them immune to force damage (which is defined in the glossary).
RavinRay 04-13-06, 08:06 AM	Bruce Cordell gave it (and Steve Winter retained) poison immunity and force resistance because, I speculate: the former is a hold-over from its 2e stats, and it is in-line with amethyst's property of granting its wearer alcohol immunity (no drunken-ness) from the Greek myth of Dionysus pursuing the nymph Amethyst who was turned into a statue by one of the goddesses in response to her plea, for which Dionysus expressed remorse and shed tears of wine staining the statue violet; and the latter is of course due to its breath weapon, though in 2e the breath weapon was the explosive lozenge. And, like all other gem dragons except the obsidian dragon, it has fire resistance 15.
savant_warlord13 04-13-06, 11:04 AM	I could be wrong, but I believe it has fire resistance 20 as well I checked, and all gem dragons have fire resistance 30 Amethyst dragons also have no vulnerability to cold, so you might consider it to be even better than a red dragon's fire immunity
RavinRay 04-13-06, 09:57 PM	This was corrected in the 3.5 update to Monster Manual II to fire resistance 15; I figure 30 is too high a value and gives them too much of an advantage over chromatic and metallic dragons. It is just anough for them to avoid damage in the Elemental Plane of Fire if they choose to dwell there.