Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nuntius128 11-22-04, 02:33 PM	OK, I'm having some trouble understanding the rulings on some templates. I think the best way to ask is to ask through example. 1)Let's say that I want to make a Half-Fiend Troll. Would I use the Half-Troll template, or would I use a regular Troll? I should think that if it were half of one, it should be half of the other, right, since half+half=one? 2)And in another case, what would be the size rating of a Half-Celestial Half Silver Dragon? Would you use the dragon age categories? I think that the wording of "Half" anything is a little improper if there aren't half-everything templates. Say, for example, you had a character whose parents were a Satyr and a Human. What would be the benefits(if any) of a half-human? Or a Half-Satyr? Very confusing. Any ideas?
Melpomene 11-22-04, 02:53 PM	1.) The toughest question. In that particular instance, it's probably at the fiend's leisure which base creature is used. I'd say you have about 50-50 for other issues as to which creature is dominant. 2.) If the celestial template raises the creature's size, raise the creature's size. If it doesn't, don't. 3.) Half saytrs fall under the broad catagory of half-fae, found in the Fiend Folio.
Nuntius128 11-22-04, 03:45 PM	That makes sense. My big thing with this is that there's no explanation as to the use of "Half" templates. The way it seems to be in the MM is that you take a monster, and you tack on the "Half" template. That is to say, as in my example, a Half-Fiend Troll. That is half part fiend, one part troll, which, no matter what math you use, comes out to one and a half, which only needs clarification, I think. Or, in any case, just renaming the templates. And that leads to the dragon question. If you have a Half celestial Silver dragon, that would mean(by my conjecture), you have yourself a Half-Celestial Half Silver Dragon. What would the size be, if there is no given size for only half of a dragon? Is this in the Draconomicon? No idea. WoTC, please start covering the holes in your books...
the Horc 11-22-04, 04:09 PM	I think a good rule of thumb would be to have the mother's race as the base creature and the father's race as the template. Then decide who gets to do who. Though as suggested, its typically the troll that would be on the receiving end. Decide in advance.
Wolf72 11-23-04, 09:53 AM	you're reading to much into it ... use some /'s to seperate races ... for example Half-fiend/Troll ... or Half-fiend/Half-elf and Half-fiend/Elf, one is a 1/2elf the other an elf, both with the Half-fiend template. do want a half-troll (assuming it's a template not a full race) or troll? half-fiend/Troll (troll with half-fiend template) half-fiend/half-troll/human (human with half-troll and half-fiend templates). all you really need to do is differentiate between the tempalted and base parts of your critter. [edit ... huh, it can be kinda confusing sometimes, especially if you're telling someone about it ... easier to read it.]
Adrez Nesnsid 11-23-04, 11:37 AM	For the half-fiend troll, I would rule that you apply the half-fiend template to a troll. There's a section in Savage Species that talks about how certain creature types trump others, I forget the exact heirarchy, (and I don't have the book with me right now), but it went something like this: Outsider or Undead or Elemental>Fey or Dragon> Plant or magical beast> humanoid, monstrous humanoid, or giant> animal or vermin So the outsider nature from the fiend would trump the giant nature from the troll and thus they would take on the tamplate that makes them into an outsider.
Melpomene 11-23-04, 12:08 PM	I'd be very tempted to agree with you unequivically Adrez, except that the F has a half-troll Bearded Devil. The list probably makes for a good rule-of-thumb, and would work well in most cases, but I think there are also subtlties beyond it.
Nuntius128 11-23-04, 12:42 PM	I agree with the heirarchy idea, but yeah, I do remember the Half-Troll Bearded Devil. And I wouldn't say that I'm reading too much into it, it just doesn't make any sense. But, if the heirarchy idea is the way to go with this, what about a Half-Troll/Half-Ogre(can't recall if either template can be added to the otrher, though, don't have Savage Species)?
Mithral Icesilver 11-23-04, 04:39 PM	Would that be a cross between a fiend and an ogre or a fiend and a half-ogre (which is an ogre-human hybrid; I think the actual creature type is humanoid, but it also counts as a giant).
Melpomene 11-23-04, 05:26 PM	"That's IT! New house rule, if you have more than one -half in your racial description, you become a MONGERLFOLK!!"
Edymnion 11-23-04, 10:01 PM	I would just like to point out that just because it has "Half-" in the template name, it does not actually mean someone is 50% this, 50% that. A Half-Dragon Half-Elf is entirely possible, even though it has a base, and two differant halves. You could even get a Half-Red, Half-Black, Half-Fiend, Half-Golem Kender. Its what you get when a Red Dragon and a Black Dragon mate (to get a half-red black dragon), which then mates with a half-fiendish Kender. The offspring then gets experimented on and is made into a half-golem. Remember, half-XXXX templates can mean 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, or whatever else. As long as the types are correct, you can stack on as many templates as you want. And, you don't have to actually explain it through breeding. Magic can easily be used to instill dragon essence into something to get a Half-Dragon. So don't try to rationalize it, just realize that you can do it, and you're good to go. As for which base to apply which template on, its pretty much up to you which one you use as a base. Your Troll/Fiend example is a good one, although how you refer to it would change. A Half-Fiend Troll is a troll base, with the half-fiend template. It is a troll with fiendish traits. Other way around with the fiend as the base, and the half-troll template would be a Half-Troll Fiend, which is a demon with troll-like traits.