"New" animal: Goat [Archive] - Wizards Community

"New" animal: Goat [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Perun
03-26-05, 05:52 PM I'm playing a gnome druid, and I've been looking for an adequate animal companion, but couldn't find it. So, I wrote the stats for a goat, based on the brixashulty (from Races of the Wild). Basically, I took the brixa stats, and de-applied (is that a word? :)) the warbeast template (from Monster Manual II).

GOAT
Medium Animal
Hit Die: 1d8+1 (5 hp)
Initiative: +3 (Dex)
Speed: 30 feet (6 squares)
AC: 14 (+3 Dex, +1 natural), touch 13, flat-footed 11
Base Attack Bonus/Grapple: +0/+0
Attack: Gore -5 melee* (1d6)
Full Attack: Gore -5 melee* (1d6)
Special Attacks: Knockback
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +3, Refl +5, Will +0
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 17, Con 13, Int 2, Wis 11, Cha 4
Skills: Balance +5, Climb +5, Jump +5, Listen +4, Spot +3
Feats: Endurance
Environment: Any land
Organisation: Domesticated
Challenge Rating: 1/2
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: --
Level Adjustment: --

* Goat's gore attacks is treated as a secondary attack.

Knockback (Ex): A gore attack from a goat can literally drive back a foe. When a goat hits with its gore attack, it can immediately attempt a bull rush without entering the foe's space or provoking an attack of opportunity. The goat makes a Strength check with a +4 bonus (+6 if charging), which includes a +4 racial bonus. If the bull ruch succeeds, the foe is driven back 5 feet and must make a DC 10 Reflex save or fall down. If being driven back would force the opponent into a barrier or into a square where it cannot stop (such as a wall or a square that already contains another creature), the foe falls down in its square instead. The Reflex save DC is Strength-based.

Skills: A goat has a +2 racial bonus Balance, Climb, Jump and Listen checks. A goat uses its Dexterity modifier for Climb and Jump checks.

Any comments?
moosekickedmysisterstoof
03-26-05, 06:34 PM Pretty good, but I think that it should be small size with an advancement range to medium, that is if you were intending for this to represent the common barn yard goat. That's just my own :twocents: .

- Johnny
Perun
03-27-05, 05:00 AM Pretty good, but I think that it should be small size with an advancement range to medium, that is if you were intending for this to represent the common barn yard goat. That's just my own :twocents: .

- Johnny

I could see sheep being Small, but goats? I mean, they're about the size of a german sheppard, maybe even slightly taller at the shoulder (my great-aunt has a couple... goats, that is ;)).
Red Viper
03-27-05, 11:52 AM Dude this is great I have been looking for a decent goat for years. I always ask about them and I get some strange things that they should have, like iron stomache i.e. can eat anything, and other stanger comments. The only thing I have found is a wargoat from in the saddle it's from natural 20 press. This goat though is exactly what I am looking for.
Perun
03-28-05, 03:04 AM Dude this is great I have been looking for a decent goat for years. I always ask about them and I get some strange things that they should have, like iron stomache i.e. can eat anything, and other stanger comments. The only thing I have found is a wargoat from in the saddle it's from natural 20 press. This goat though is exactly what I am looking for.

Glad I could help. :)
Elthbert
03-28-05, 12:14 PM well I think the goat should have a ram attack as its primary attack it should have the knockback effect and a crit of x2 damage of 1d4 + 1 1/2strength blunt weapon. It should have a gore attack as a secondary attack do 1d6+ 1 1/2str crit x3 piercing weapon.

I have been attacked by goats before none of them ever tried to gore me but they butted me pretty effectively I don't think they should take a minus five to hit they swing that head fairly well however I don't think your average goat hit is going to be as lethal as a short sword.

I agree about the size small advancable to medium.
Perun
03-29-05, 02:42 AM well I think the goat should have a ram attack as its primary attack it should have the knockback effect and a crit of x2 damage of 1d4 + 1 1/2strength blunt weapon. It should have a gore attack as a secondary attack do 1d6+ 1 1/2str crit x3 piercing weapon.

I have been attacked by goats before none of them ever tried to gore me but they butted me pretty effectively

AFAIK, D&D uses gore attack to represent attacks made with horns, antlers, etc. It does do peircing damage, though, which isn't really accurate, but then, this is a game, and I'm not overly concerned with that particular point.
Gore: The creature spears the opponent with an antler, horn, or similar appendage, dealing piercing damage.
The alternative might be to make it a slam attack, but that doesn't seem right: Slap or Slam: The creature batters opponents with an appendage, dealing bludgeoning damage.

I don't think they should take a minus five to hit they swing that head fairly well however I don't think your average goat hit is going to be as lethal as a short sword.

As for the -5 penalty, the SRD says: A noncombative herbivore uses its natural weapons as a secondary attack. Such attacks are made with a –5 penalty on the creature’s attack rolls, and the animal receives only 1/2 its Strength modifier as a damage adjustment.
I'd definitely call goats "noncombative herbivores".

I agree about the size small advancable to medium.

I'll stick with Medium for now. All goats I've seen would definitely be of Medium size.

Regards.
BigRedRod
03-29-05, 05:22 AM A goat should really be small, other than that it looks good.
Perun
03-29-05, 04:30 PM I did some homework, and I think I understand where this size issue is coming from. In my part of the world, the most common goat breed is the Saanen goat (http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/breeds/goats/saanen/).

As you can see here (http://dad.fao.org/cgi-dad/$640_dad.dll/BreedEdit?3434,-1,m,eur,694), these goats are quite big. In Croatia (that's where I'm from), the average withers height is 80 cm (2 ft. 7,5 in.) for males and 72 cm (2 ft. 4 in.) for females. On average males weigh 70 kg (154 Lbs.) and females 55 kg (121 Lbs.). In Slovenia (http://dad.fao.org/cgi-dad/$cgi_dad.dll/BreedEdit?7447,2000,m,eur,712) (which is right next door), they're even larger, with 85 cm/80 kg (2 ft. 9,5 in./176 Lbs.) for males and 70 cm/60 kg (2 ft. 5,5 in./132 Lbs.) for females.

The riding dog entry in the Monster Manual says: "this category includes working breeds such as collies, huskies, and St. Bernards".

According to the FCI (http://www.fci.be/home.asp?lang=en) standard, the largest of the above mentioned dog breeds, the St. Bernard, has allowed height listed as 70 to 90 cm (2 ft. 3,5 in. to 2 ft. 11 in.), and the AKC (http://www.akc.org/index.cfm?nav_area=homepage) agrees.

That's about the size of the Saanen goat, with collies and huskies being even smaller.

So, since when I imagine a goat, I imagine a Saanen goat, I'm sticking with my Medium goats. ;)

Regards.
Elthbert
03-29-05, 07:42 PM AFAIK, D&D uses gore attack to represent attacks made with horns, antlers, etc. It does do peircing damage, though, which isn't really accurate, but then, this is a game, and I'm not overly concerned with that particular point.

The alternative might be to make it a slam attack, but that doesn't seem right:

As for the -5 penalty, the SRD says:
I'd definitely call goats "noncombative herbivores".

I'll stick with Medium for now. All goats I've seen would definitely be of Medium size.

Regards.

Well first I think a goat is extremely combative, I can think of very few herbivores are as combative as a ram. This agian might be related to the types of goats we have been around, but in my experiance males are extremly agressive. I am from Texas and especially in central texas many are raised out on the range where they must contend with numerous predetors ( coyote's, bobcats, feral hogs, wild dogs, the occasional mountian lion) the males are extremly agressive and combative, I wouldn't give them a -5.

I also think that piercing damage is completely inconsistant with the attack of a goat, just make it a slam attack. Finally the size issue I agree I have seen many goats that are medium size but I have also seen many that are small, you could simply make 2 sizes of goat, or makethem small and advancable to medium.
Red Viper
03-30-05, 10:08 AM Well first I think a goat is extremely combative, I can think of very few herbivores are as combative as a ram. This agian might be related to the types of goats we have been around, but in my experiance males are extremly agressive. I am from Texas and especially in central texas many are raised out on the range where they must contend with numerous predetors ( coyote's, bobcats, feral hogs, wild dogs, the occasional mountian lion) the males are extremly agressive and combative, I wouldn't give them a -5.

I also think that piercing damage is completely inconsistant with the attack of a goat, just make it a slam attack. Finally the size issue I agree I have seen many goats that are medium size but I have also seen many that are small, you could simply make 2 sizes of goat, or makethem small and advancable to medium.

How would it work to use piercing into slam with an age progression, since they are points when they are younger, but when they get older the horns are bigger so teh points aren't on top anymore.

The whole small and medium size goats would definately depend on the breed. If you had pygme(sp?) goats they then would be small, and say liek the average dairy goat that would be medium, although they can be quite skinny.
moosekickedmysisterstoof
03-30-05, 03:37 PM I think those stats are exceptable for a medium goat. The -5 penalty should be given to most herbivores (except for animals like moose, rhino, hippo, elephant, etc.), so I think it should still apply. I'm planning on making a compilation of various animal stats, and I was wondering if you would be interested?

- Johnny
Elthbert
03-30-05, 05:50 PM I would be interested
Yoho1.5
03-30-05, 07:49 PM Great thread. I'm cooking goat right now, umm... goat :D. I'll back you up on a medium sized goats, Boer goats can get up over 200lbs for males, of course Boer goats aren't dairy goats they are meat goats so they are bigger than most goats. CR 1/2 eh, I just slaughtered and butchered 5 of them, with my wifes help of course, we could level up in a few years. ;)
Perun
03-31-05, 12:47 PM Great thread. I'm cooking goat right now, umm... goat :D. I'll back you up on a medium sized goats, Boer goats can get up over 200lbs for males, of course Boer goats aren't dairy goats they are meat goats so they are bigger than most goats. CR 1/2 eh, I just slaughtered and butchered 5 of them, with my wifes help of course, we could level up in a few years. ;)

Lamb is sort of national meat around here, so I can appreciate, especially now, in early spring period, around Easter. Had more than my fill, really ;)

Although, I never slaughtered anything myself (with the exception of mosquitoes :P). No leveling for me, I'm afraid (eggs wouldn't have a CR, would they? :))
Perun
03-31-05, 12:49 PM I'm planning on making a compilation of various animal stats, and I was wondering if you would be interested?

- Johnny

Sure, why not. Just tell me what you want me to do, and I'll help if I can.

Regards.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Perun 03-26-05, 05:52 PM	I'm playing a gnome druid, and I've been looking for an adequate animal companion, but couldn't find it. So, I wrote the stats for a goat, based on the brixashulty (from Races of the Wild). Basically, I took the brixa stats, and de-applied (is that a word? :)) the warbeast template (from Monster Manual II). GOAT Medium Animal Hit Die: 1d8+1 (5 hp) Initiative: +3 (Dex) Speed: 30 feet (6 squares) AC: 14 (+3 Dex, +1 natural), touch 13, flat-footed 11 Base Attack Bonus/Grapple: +0/+0 Attack: Gore -5 melee* (1d6) Full Attack: Gore -5 melee* (1d6) Special Attacks: Knockback Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent Saves: Fort +3, Refl +5, Will +0 Abilities: Str 10, Dex 17, Con 13, Int 2, Wis 11, Cha 4 Skills: Balance +5, Climb +5, Jump +5, Listen +4, Spot +3 Feats: Endurance Environment: Any land Organisation: Domesticated Challenge Rating: 1/2 Treasure: None Alignment: Always neutral Advancement: -- Level Adjustment: -- * Goat's gore attacks is treated as a secondary attack. Knockback (Ex): A gore attack from a goat can literally drive back a foe. When a goat hits with its gore attack, it can immediately attempt a bull rush without entering the foe's space or provoking an attack of opportunity. The goat makes a Strength check with a +4 bonus (+6 if charging), which includes a +4 racial bonus. If the bull ruch succeeds, the foe is driven back 5 feet and must make a DC 10 Reflex save or fall down. If being driven back would force the opponent into a barrier or into a square where it cannot stop (such as a wall or a square that already contains another creature), the foe falls down in its square instead. The Reflex save DC is Strength-based. Skills: A goat has a +2 racial bonus Balance, Climb, Jump and Listen checks. A goat uses its Dexterity modifier for Climb and Jump checks. Any comments?
moosekickedmysisterstoof 03-26-05, 06:34 PM	Pretty good, but I think that it should be small size with an advancement range to medium, that is if you were intending for this to represent the common barn yard goat. That's just my own :twocents: . - Johnny
Perun 03-27-05, 05:00 AM	Pretty good, but I think that it should be small size with an advancement range to medium, that is if you were intending for this to represent the common barn yard goat. That's just my own :twocents: . - Johnny I could see sheep being Small, but goats? I mean, they're about the size of a german sheppard, maybe even slightly taller at the shoulder (my great-aunt has a couple... goats, that is ;)).
Red Viper 03-27-05, 11:52 AM	Dude this is great I have been looking for a decent goat for years. I always ask about them and I get some strange things that they should have, like iron stomache i.e. can eat anything, and other stanger comments. The only thing I have found is a wargoat from in the saddle it's from natural 20 press. This goat though is exactly what I am looking for.
Perun 03-28-05, 03:04 AM	Dude this is great I have been looking for a decent goat for years. I always ask about them and I get some strange things that they should have, like iron stomache i.e. can eat anything, and other stanger comments. The only thing I have found is a wargoat from in the saddle it's from natural 20 press. This goat though is exactly what I am looking for. Glad I could help. :)
Elthbert 03-28-05, 12:14 PM	well I think the goat should have a ram attack as its primary attack it should have the knockback effect and a crit of x2 damage of 1d4 + 1 1/2strength blunt weapon. It should have a gore attack as a secondary attack do 1d6+ 1 1/2str crit x3 piercing weapon. I have been attacked by goats before none of them ever tried to gore me but they butted me pretty effectively I don't think they should take a minus five to hit they swing that head fairly well however I don't think your average goat hit is going to be as lethal as a short sword. I agree about the size small advancable to medium.
Perun 03-29-05, 02:42 AM	well I think the goat should have a ram attack as its primary attack it should have the knockback effect and a crit of x2 damage of 1d4 + 1 1/2strength blunt weapon. It should have a gore attack as a secondary attack do 1d6+ 1 1/2str crit x3 piercing weapon. I have been attacked by goats before none of them ever tried to gore me but they butted me pretty effectively AFAIK, D&D uses gore attack to represent attacks made with horns, antlers, etc. It does do peircing damage, though, which isn't really accurate, but then, this is a game, and I'm not overly concerned with that particular point. Gore: The creature spears the opponent with an antler, horn, or similar appendage, dealing piercing damage. The alternative might be to make it a slam attack, but that doesn't seem right: Slap or Slam: The creature batters opponents with an appendage, dealing bludgeoning damage. I don't think they should take a minus five to hit they swing that head fairly well however I don't think your average goat hit is going to be as lethal as a short sword. As for the -5 penalty, the SRD says: A noncombative herbivore uses its natural weapons as a secondary attack. Such attacks are made with a –5 penalty on the creature’s attack rolls, and the animal receives only 1/2 its Strength modifier as a damage adjustment. I'd definitely call goats "noncombative herbivores". I agree about the size small advancable to medium. I'll stick with Medium for now. All goats I've seen would definitely be of Medium size. Regards.
BigRedRod 03-29-05, 05:22 AM	A goat should really be small, other than that it looks good.
Perun 03-29-05, 04:30 PM	I did some homework, and I think I understand where this size issue is coming from. In my part of the world, the most common goat breed is the Saanen goat (http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/breeds/goats/saanen/). As you can see here (http://dad.fao.org/cgi-dad/$640_dad.dll/BreedEdit?3434,-1,m,eur,694), these goats are quite big. In Croatia (that's where I'm from), the average withers height is 80 cm (2 ft. 7,5 in.) for males and 72 cm (2 ft. 4 in.) for females. On average males weigh 70 kg (154 Lbs.) and females 55 kg (121 Lbs.). In Slovenia (http://dad.fao.org/cgi-dad/$cgi_dad.dll/BreedEdit?7447,2000,m,eur,712) (which is right next door), they're even larger, with 85 cm/80 kg (2 ft. 9,5 in./176 Lbs.) for males and 70 cm/60 kg (2 ft. 5,5 in./132 Lbs.) for females. The riding dog entry in the Monster Manual says: "this category includes working breeds such as collies, huskies, and St. Bernards". According to the FCI (http://www.fci.be/home.asp?lang=en) standard, the largest of the above mentioned dog breeds, the St. Bernard, has allowed height listed as 70 to 90 cm (2 ft. 3,5 in. to 2 ft. 11 in.), and the AKC (http://www.akc.org/index.cfm?nav_area=homepage) agrees. That's about the size of the Saanen goat, with collies and huskies being even smaller. So, since when I imagine a goat, I imagine a Saanen goat, I'm sticking with my Medium goats. ;) Regards.
Elthbert 03-29-05, 07:42 PM	AFAIK, D&D uses gore attack to represent attacks made with horns, antlers, etc. It does do peircing damage, though, which isn't really accurate, but then, this is a game, and I'm not overly concerned with that particular point. The alternative might be to make it a slam attack, but that doesn't seem right: As for the -5 penalty, the SRD says: I'd definitely call goats "noncombative herbivores". I'll stick with Medium for now. All goats I've seen would definitely be of Medium size. Regards. Well first I think a goat is extremely combative, I can think of very few herbivores are as combative as a ram. This agian might be related to the types of goats we have been around, but in my experiance males are extremly agressive. I am from Texas and especially in central texas many are raised out on the range where they must contend with numerous predetors ( coyote's, bobcats, feral hogs, wild dogs, the occasional mountian lion) the males are extremly agressive and combative, I wouldn't give them a -5. I also think that piercing damage is completely inconsistant with the attack of a goat, just make it a slam attack. Finally the size issue I agree I have seen many goats that are medium size but I have also seen many that are small, you could simply make 2 sizes of goat, or makethem small and advancable to medium.
Red Viper 03-30-05, 10:08 AM	Well first I think a goat is extremely combative, I can think of very few herbivores are as combative as a ram. This agian might be related to the types of goats we have been around, but in my experiance males are extremly agressive. I am from Texas and especially in central texas many are raised out on the range where they must contend with numerous predetors ( coyote's, bobcats, feral hogs, wild dogs, the occasional mountian lion) the males are extremly agressive and combative, I wouldn't give them a -5. I also think that piercing damage is completely inconsistant with the attack of a goat, just make it a slam attack. Finally the size issue I agree I have seen many goats that are medium size but I have also seen many that are small, you could simply make 2 sizes of goat, or makethem small and advancable to medium. How would it work to use piercing into slam with an age progression, since they are points when they are younger, but when they get older the horns are bigger so teh points aren't on top anymore. The whole small and medium size goats would definately depend on the breed. If you had pygme(sp?) goats they then would be small, and say liek the average dairy goat that would be medium, although they can be quite skinny.
moosekickedmysisterstoof 03-30-05, 03:37 PM	I think those stats are exceptable for a medium goat. The -5 penalty should be given to most herbivores (except for animals like moose, rhino, hippo, elephant, etc.), so I think it should still apply. I'm planning on making a compilation of various animal stats, and I was wondering if you would be interested? - Johnny
Elthbert 03-30-05, 05:50 PM	I would be interested
Yoho1.5 03-30-05, 07:49 PM	Great thread. I'm cooking goat right now, umm... goat :D. I'll back you up on a medium sized goats, Boer goats can get up over 200lbs for males, of course Boer goats aren't dairy goats they are meat goats so they are bigger than most goats. CR 1/2 eh, I just slaughtered and butchered 5 of them, with my wifes help of course, we could level up in a few years. ;)
Perun 03-31-05, 12:47 PM	Great thread. I'm cooking goat right now, umm... goat :D. I'll back you up on a medium sized goats, Boer goats can get up over 200lbs for males, of course Boer goats aren't dairy goats they are meat goats so they are bigger than most goats. CR 1/2 eh, I just slaughtered and butchered 5 of them, with my wifes help of course, we could level up in a few years. ;) Lamb is sort of national meat around here, so I can appreciate, especially now, in early spring period, around Easter. Had more than my fill, really ;) Although, I never slaughtered anything myself (with the exception of mosquitoes :P). No leveling for me, I'm afraid (eggs wouldn't have a CR, would they? :))
Perun 03-31-05, 12:49 PM	I'm planning on making a compilation of various animal stats, and I was wondering if you would be interested? - Johnny Sure, why not. Just tell me what you want me to do, and I'll help if I can. Regards.