Animal Skill Points [Archive] - Wizards Community

Animal Skill Points [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ninetails Demon
07-29-07, 01:34 AM Why do animals have skill points as (2 + Int)? Since they have an intelligence of 1 or 2, they will always have only 1 skill point per HD (except the first of course :P )

As a side note, where can I locate the class skills for Animals? Currently looking, but if someone answers if I cannot find, so much the better!
Talisman
07-29-07, 01:46 AM Why do animals have skill points as (2 + Int)? Since they have an intelligence of 1 or 2, they will always have only 1 skill point per HD (except the first of course :P )

Stupidity and no other reason. I kid you not.

As a side note, where can I locate the class skills for Animals? Currently looking, but if someone answers if I cannot find, so much the better!

An animal's "class skills" are whatever skills it's listed as having ranks in in the animal's description. For example, a toad's class sklls are Hide, Listen and Spot.

Interestingly, very few animals have Survival as a class skill...:eek:
Potato_Dragon
07-29-07, 03:01 AM Interestingly, very few animals have Survival as a class skill...:eek:

Not surprising. Unlike humans, animals tend not to survive very well. Because stuff eats them. :P

As for the 2+ int skill points, I think it's so an animal with high HD, like an elephant, won't get a lot of extra skill points that they don't know what to do with. It's not like an elephant would know, say, jump, or use magic device. For lower HD animals, they fix this by giving them racial bonuses. It's a bit screwy, but I don't think giving skill points by hit die works well for an int 1-2 creature anyway.
Kesthol
07-29-07, 02:09 PM If it bothers you that bad, go back to your 3.0 edition Monster Manual and look at the rules for animal skill points... if I remember right, they got somewhere between 8 and 25. Period. There were also some racial bonuses in that system, but they weren't rediculous (like the domestic cat's +12 racial bonus to Jump). It may make more sense to you to use that older rule.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht
07-29-07, 04:43 PM As for the 2+ int skill points, I think it's so an animal with high HD, like an elephant, won't get a lot of extra skill points that they don't know what to do with.
Other than dump all of them into skills they already have. Hit Dice really doesn't matter.
El_Machinae
07-29-07, 07:52 PM Animal Skill Points matter for those who become Lycanthropes!
Slagger the Chuul
07-29-07, 09:51 PM Why do animals have skill points as (2 + Int)? Since they have an intelligence of 1 or 2, they will always have only 1 skill point per HD (except the first of course :P )

Although extremely unlikely, it's possible that under the right circumstances an animal could have enough Intelligence to gain those skill points, although some methods of increasing Intelligence (like templates) will make the creature stop being an animal.

For example, suppose you decided to make a riding dog that's the absolute pinnacle of riding dog-hood, a real fence leaping, day-saving, pull-Timmy-from-the-well kind of dog. To make this paragon of dogness (which I'll call Lassie), I take a typical riding dog and give it unusually high statistics, including an Intelligence score well above what an animal is normally allowed to have. Our Lassie isn't really a magical beast, just a very smart animal, and the only thing that stops her from being able to communicate properly is the physical design of her throat; sometimes she can even get people to understand her in spite of this limitation.

According to the Monster Manual, no animal has an Intelligence score of above 2, but it's also providing the base statistics for typical animals (which only arguably apply to any individual animal; you may disagree with this reasoning), and under the right circumstances, an exception like Lassie could exist.

There could potentially be other means (like a special feat or ability that cancels the skill penalty for having low Intelligence) which allow an animal to make use of that skill allotment, an if that rare event ever occurs, the rules are already built to accomodate it.

For the most part, it's just built that way to fit with other elements of the game, but when it becomes important, the fact that someone decided to design things in a consistent fashion really helps.

Animal Skill Points matter for those who become Lycanthropes!

That's a perfect example of where unusual rules make use of standardized games mechanics.
Radijs
07-30-07, 07:38 AM I have a terrible curse in my blood. I am... a weretoad! *thunderclap*
snakeman830
07-30-07, 10:37 AM Animal skill points are given as such for, as has been stated, lycanthropes. However, let's say you took a standard wolf. (2 Int) and advanced it 2 HD (to 4, giving it an ability increase). Plop that increase into Intelligence and you now have a olf with 3 Int. Throw a +5 inherant bonus to Int on it and the wolf now has 8 nt. 8 more HD will net it two more ability increases, raising the Int to 10. Now, those animal skill points are important.

There is nothing saying you cannot increase an animal's Intelligence score through advancing HD. They simply cannot start out with an Intelligence that high. The Inherant bonus works regardless of the creature's type. Strangely, these methods do not change the animal's type to magical beast.

Now, I know that many people will begin to argue with me, saying I'm wrong, so I'll just leave the thread and prevent myself being part of the ensuing argument.
JLaurHughes
07-30-07, 06:08 PM Hrmm :whatsthis A halfling/gnome/goblin/other small race Werekitten?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ninetails Demon 07-29-07, 01:34 AM	Why do animals have skill points as (2 + Int)? Since they have an intelligence of 1 or 2, they will always have only 1 skill point per HD (except the first of course :P ) As a side note, where can I locate the class skills for Animals? Currently looking, but if someone answers if I cannot find, so much the better!
Talisman 07-29-07, 01:46 AM	Why do animals have skill points as (2 + Int)? Since they have an intelligence of 1 or 2, they will always have only 1 skill point per HD (except the first of course :P ) Stupidity and no other reason. I kid you not. As a side note, where can I locate the class skills for Animals? Currently looking, but if someone answers if I cannot find, so much the better! An animal's "class skills" are whatever skills it's listed as having ranks in in the animal's description. For example, a toad's class sklls are Hide, Listen and Spot. Interestingly, very few animals have Survival as a class skill...:eek:
Potato_Dragon 07-29-07, 03:01 AM	Interestingly, very few animals have Survival as a class skill...:eek: Not surprising. Unlike humans, animals tend not to survive very well. Because stuff eats them. :P As for the 2+ int skill points, I think it's so an animal with high HD, like an elephant, won't get a lot of extra skill points that they don't know what to do with. It's not like an elephant would know, say, jump, or use magic device. For lower HD animals, they fix this by giving them racial bonuses. It's a bit screwy, but I don't think giving skill points by hit die works well for an int 1-2 creature anyway.
Kesthol 07-29-07, 02:09 PM	If it bothers you that bad, go back to your 3.0 edition Monster Manual and look at the rules for animal skill points... if I remember right, they got somewhere between 8 and 25. Period. There were also some racial bonuses in that system, but they weren't rediculous (like the domestic cat's +12 racial bonus to Jump). It may make more sense to you to use that older rule.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 07-29-07, 04:43 PM	As for the 2+ int skill points, I think it's so an animal with high HD, like an elephant, won't get a lot of extra skill points that they don't know what to do with. Other than dump all of them into skills they already have. Hit Dice really doesn't matter.
El_Machinae 07-29-07, 07:52 PM	Animal Skill Points matter for those who become Lycanthropes!
Slagger the Chuul 07-29-07, 09:51 PM	Why do animals have skill points as (2 + Int)? Since they have an intelligence of 1 or 2, they will always have only 1 skill point per HD (except the first of course :P ) Although extremely unlikely, it's possible that under the right circumstances an animal could have enough Intelligence to gain those skill points, although some methods of increasing Intelligence (like templates) will make the creature stop being an animal. For example, suppose you decided to make a riding dog that's the absolute pinnacle of riding dog-hood, a real fence leaping, day-saving, pull-Timmy-from-the-well kind of dog. To make this paragon of dogness (which I'll call Lassie), I take a typical riding dog and give it unusually high statistics, including an Intelligence score well above what an animal is normally allowed to have. Our Lassie isn't really a magical beast, just a very smart animal, and the only thing that stops her from being able to communicate properly is the physical design of her throat; sometimes she can even get people to understand her in spite of this limitation. According to the Monster Manual, no animal has an Intelligence score of above 2, but it's also providing the base statistics for typical animals (which only arguably apply to any individual animal; you may disagree with this reasoning), and under the right circumstances, an exception like Lassie could exist. There could potentially be other means (like a special feat or ability that cancels the skill penalty for having low Intelligence) which allow an animal to make use of that skill allotment, an if that rare event ever occurs, the rules are already built to accomodate it. For the most part, it's just built that way to fit with other elements of the game, but when it becomes important, the fact that someone decided to design things in a consistent fashion really helps. Animal Skill Points matter for those who become Lycanthropes! That's a perfect example of where unusual rules make use of standardized games mechanics.
Radijs 07-30-07, 07:38 AM	I have a terrible curse in my blood. I am... a weretoad! thunderclap
snakeman830 07-30-07, 10:37 AM	Animal skill points are given as such for, as has been stated, lycanthropes. However, let's say you took a standard wolf. (2 Int) and advanced it 2 HD (to 4, giving it an ability increase). Plop that increase into Intelligence and you now have a olf with 3 Int. Throw a +5 inherant bonus to Int on it and the wolf now has 8 nt. 8 more HD will net it two more ability increases, raising the Int to 10. Now, those animal skill points are important. There is nothing saying you cannot increase an animal's Intelligence score through advancing HD. They simply cannot start out with an Intelligence that high. The Inherant bonus works regardless of the creature's type. Strangely, these methods do not change the animal's type to magical beast. Now, I know that many people will begin to argue with me, saying I'm wrong, so I'll just leave the thread and prevent myself being part of the ensuing argument.
JLaurHughes 07-30-07, 06:08 PM	Hrmm :whatsthis A halfling/gnome/goblin/other small race Werekitten?