Post/Author/DateTime	Post
McBard 10-08-03, 01:47 PM	Does anyone else think that Apes (Animals) should be Medium? I can understand to some extent the inclination to make them Large because of their long arms; however, they are described as being "5-1/2 to 6 feet tall" and weighing "300 to 400 pounds." This is clearly in the Glossary's range for Medium creatures of 4 to 8 feet tall, and 60 to 500 pounds in weight. Dire Apes are "9 feet tall" and weigh "from 800 to 1,200 lbs", and so clearly deserve getting the Large size they indeed receive. However, it seems these more massive proportions of the Dire Ape merely strengthen the argument that Apes (Animals) should only be Medium (perhaps only getting the Large size for when they are given 5-8 HD...). As another comparison: Black Bears are Medium ("up to 5 ft long"); Brown Bears are Large ("nearly 9 feet tall" and "more than 1,800 lbs"); and Dire Bears are Large ("12 feet long" and "weigh...8,000 lbs). But all three have a 5 ft. Reach (yes, even the Dire Bear). Well, the Ape (Animal)--as printed--is given a <10 ft. Reach>...does it deserve a larger Space/Reach stat than something twice its height and six times its weight? I'm obviously going to Rule 0 the Ape (Animal) to Medium--it's not a huge controversy or anything--but I'm just curious to see what others think. In some ways, they become a bit more powerful with this house rule: melee attacks and AC go up by 1....
Gingerbread Guy 10-08-03, 02:32 PM	Hiho, According to the information I've found on many websites, the sizes and weight they've listed for an ape is about right. Even Gorillas, the largest of the apes are only around 6 feet tall and weight no more than 200kg [about 440 pounds]. [credit for these stats goes to this web page, which has a nice comparative picture http://www.berggorilla.de/english/faq/dvers/fragen/gross.html ] So, I'd hardly say that a gorilla is Large. Frankly, they're basically orcs with bad posture. lol I agree, they should be medium. That doesn't mean that the Ape listed in the Monster Manual is no good. I think what they have there should represent an animal that doesn't quite exist right now [possibly an extinct species of larger ape?] that is/was more violent and what not. Heck, I dunno. Its still a good ape, just not an ape you can find in the real world, including gorillas. However, there are other kinds of apes out there. Chimps and Orangs are all apes, and are hardly Large at all. For these smaller apes, I'd certainly use the Baboon entry instead. ~Ginger